login
Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane (Page 2)
-
No new posts
|
 2013-08-28 2:10 PM in reply to: JZig |
Extreme Veteran  451   Algonquin, IL |  Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insaneOriginally posted by JZig Originally posted by thebigb As everyone else has asked, what are some current times you are laying down? If you can run great, bike ok but swim like crap (me) it's not happening the first time out. If you can run half a&&, bike ok and swim pretty darn good, certainly possible. umm, what? If anything the HIM and IM distances are weighted significantly toward the bike and the run. If there is any room for weakness its on the swim. I also disagree with this in regards to the HIM distance. For IM, the swim becomes less significant. However, in the HIM, the swim is very important. In order to go sub 5, you need to execute all three disciplines. |
| 2013-08-28 2:18 PM in reply to: switch |
Extreme Veteran 451 Algonquin, IL | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Originally posted by switch Originally posted by marcag For an average course a) I would say you need to be a sub 25' 1500m swimmer b) You need 3.5 watts/kg on the bike c) You need to be a 51 VDOT on the run You need the right load and mix of training. You need to execute properly. If you are stronger in one area, you can be a bit weaker in another. Marc, I laughed when I saw this as I'll be training to go sub 5 next year, and I don't know my answer to b or c. You and your damn numbers! And graphs! And data!
It also made me giggle. I have no idea what marc is talking about. Maybe its because I have never used a speedometer or a HRM. tri-nerds.... |
| 2013-08-28 2:25 PM in reply to: daviddclough |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Originally posted by daviddclough Originally posted by switch It also made me giggle. I have no idea what marc is talking about. Maybe its because I have never used a speedometer or a HRM. tri-nerds.... Originally posted by marcag For an average course a) I would say you need to be a sub 25' 1500m swimmer b) You need 3.5 watts/kg on the bike c) You need to be a 51 VDOT on the run You need the right load and mix of training. You need to execute properly. If you are stronger in one area, you can be a bit weaker in another. Marc, I laughed when I saw this as I'll be training to go sub 5 next year, and I don't know my answer to b or c. You and your damn numbers! And graphs! And data! ;)
Marc is THE MAN when it comes to this stuff, and I'm trying desperately to follow along and learn from his data analysis in another thread. I just feel woefully ignorant sometimes, especially when we start talking about the bike. At some point I just go to the corner, clutch my knees, and repeat "Smooth circles, smooth circles, smooth circles," Rainman style. |
| 2013-08-28 2:33 PM in reply to: daviddclough |
| Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Lance went something like 3:50 in his first HIM. So yeah...it just depends on what level of fitness you come from. For some people, sub 5 is a walk in the park for thier first HIM. Other people will struggle with sub 6:30. |
| 2013-08-28 2:41 PM in reply to: switch |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Originally posted by switch Originally posted by marcag For an average course a) I would say you need to be a sub 25' 1500m swimmer b) You need 3.5 watts/kg on the bike c) You need to be a 51 VDOT on the run You need the right load and mix of training. You need to execute properly. If you are stronger in one area, you can be a bit weaker in another. Marc, I laughed when I saw this as I'll be training to go sub 5 next year, and I don't know my answer to b or c. You and your damn numbers! And graphs! And data!
Sorry about that... For the vdot, go to http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm Enter any open run race result (5km, 10km...) I will give you a VDOT. Press the +/- button until you get to 51 and you will see the various times you would need to run. For B) you need a power meter but could figure it out other ways like a 40km TT. The above metrics would say if you have the right ingredients. But you need to mix them properly to get the right result. BTW, you could use these same metrics to say what you would need to KQ :-) |
| 2013-08-28 2:44 PM in reply to: switch |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Originally posted by switch Originally posted by daviddclough Originally posted by switch It also made me giggle. I have no idea what marc is talking about. Maybe its because I have never used a speedometer or a HRM. tri-nerds.... Originally posted by marcag For an average course a) I would say you need to be a sub 25' 1500m swimmer b) You need 3.5 watts/kg on the bike c) You need to be a 51 VDOT on the run You need the right load and mix of training. You need to execute properly. If you are stronger in one area, you can be a bit weaker in another. Marc, I laughed when I saw this as I'll be training to go sub 5 next year, and I don't know my answer to b or c. You and your damn numbers! And graphs! And data!
Marc is THE MAN when it comes to this stuff, and I'm trying desperately to follow along and learn from his data analysis in another thread. I just feel woefully ignorant sometimes, especially when we start talking about the bike. At some point I just go to the corner, clutch my knees, and repeat "Smooth circles, smooth circles, smooth circles," Rainman style. Never ever hesitate to ask, either in the thread or in PM....sometimes I forget that the B in BT and assume we all know all of this and that is wrong on my part. |
| 2013-08-28 3:20 PM in reply to: orcrpie |
Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Why is your goal sub-5:00? Why not Sub 4:30? or Sub-5:30? goals should be SMART - specific (you got that part), measurable (ditto), Achievable, Realistic and Time Constrained (by next August). Only you know what is Achievable & Realistic. What is your fitness level and training telling you? Are you a sub 1:30/min swimmer at the local pool? Can you maintain a 35km/hr average over the 90km distance in training? have you run a 1:40 half-marathon? How does you body react when you run after a hard bike? |
 2013-08-28 3:24 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-08-28 3:27 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by marcagFor an average coursea) I would say you need to be a sub 25' 1500m swimmerb) You need 3.5 watts/kg on the bikec) You need to be a 51 VDOT on the runYou need the right load and mix of training.You need to execute properly.If you are stronger in one area, you can be a bit weaker in another. . What do you define as an average course? Average course : Tremblant, Timberman Hard course : Mallorca, Muskoka, Ste-Croix |
| 2013-08-28 3:31 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-08-28 3:36 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-08-28 3:38 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by switch Sorry about that... For the vdot, go to http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htmEnter any open run race result (5km, 10km...) I will give you a VDOT. Press the +/- button until you get to 51 and you will see the various times you would need to run. For B) you need a power meter but could figure it out other ways like a 40km TT. The above metrics would say if you have the right ingredients. But you need to mix them properly to get the right result. BTW, you could use these same metrics to say what you would need to KQ :-) Originally posted by marcag For an average course a) I would say you need to be a sub 25' 1500m swimmer b) You need 3.5 watts/kg on the bike c) You need to be a 51 VDOT on the run You need the right load and mix of training. You need to execute properly. If you are stronger in one area, you can be a bit weaker in another. Marc, I laughed when I saw this as I'll be training to go sub 5 next year, and I don't know my answer to b or c. You and your damn numbers! And graphs! And data! ;)
Wow! Awesome :) Thanks for taking the time to respond like that. I'm gonna go play with the VDOT link. It is Beginner Triathlete, but it is really nice that some of you with real breadth and depth in your knowledge base hang out over here and answer with patience and kindness. Much appreciated! |
| 2013-08-28 3:39 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-08-28 3:45 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane What's up with Brazil? Either they have a lot of fast dudes there or the whole course is downhill. |
| 2013-08-28 3:48 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Am I just missing it, or is St. George not on there? Does it go by another name? For those of you in the know, where would you rank it in that list? |
| 2013-08-28 3:48 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Originally posted by Fred D Average course : Tremblant, Timberman Hard course : Mallorca, Muskoka, Ste-Croix
http://www.runtri.com/2010/08/toughesthardest-vs-easiestfastest-half.html
Florida harder than Muskoka and Ste-Croix ? HA! Lance Armstrong Ironman 2012 Results Analysis Ironman 70.3 St. Croix (4:07:08, 3rd place) Ironman 70.3 Florida (3:45:38 1st place) |
| 2013-08-28 3:52 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-08-28 3:54 PM in reply to: switch |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-08-28 3:59 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane I suppose when you consider the sample size, and that Florida had over 4x more participants than St. Croix, the data can get skewed. You also have to consider that St.Croix has Kona slots, so there is likely a higher percentage of pointy end athletes there out of the 600 total. Where over 75% of the field at Florida is probably your typical AGer just looking to finish. |
| 2013-08-28 4:02 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by switch . Was based off last years data before it was a HIM. Also courses like Black bear and Savageman are not WTC branded so they don't make the list. St. George would likely be very high on the difficulty list, but again the run tri stuff has a huge confounder so it's not a pure science.... Am I just missing it, or is St. George not on there? Does it go by another name? For those of you in the know, where would you rank it in that list? Dang. Good to know. Back to the drawing board :) |
| 2013-08-28 4:11 PM in reply to: switch |
| Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane St. George this year seemed about average. Winning times in the low 3:50's with a stacked pro field. But I think the winds weren't blowing like they were at IMSG in 2012. Sort of like Honu/Kona I suppose. When the winds aren't blowing, winners at Honu/Kona can go 3:52/8:10 respectively. But when the winds do blow, winnning times can be 4:02/8:28 respectively. Adding 10/20 minutes of course difficulty for a pro due to weather is like adding 15/35 minutes for a AGer looking to shoot for sub 5 or sub 11. |
| 2013-08-28 4:37 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Originally posted by Jason N St. George this year seemed about average. Winning times in the low 3:50's with a stacked pro field. But I think the winds weren't blowing like they were at IMSG in 2012. Sort of like Honu/Kona I suppose. When the winds aren't blowing, winners at Honu/Kona can go 3:52/8:10 respectively. But when the winds do blow, winnning times can be 4:02/8:28 respectively. Adding 10/20 minutes of course difficulty for a pro due to weather is like adding 15/35 minutes for a AGer looking to shoot for sub 5 or sub 11. There are some who like to make this as brutally painful as possible, but I am not one of them :) I'll be finding a less demanding course. Is that why St. George has so many Worlds spots?
|
| 2013-08-28 4:56 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-08-28 5:07 PM in reply to: Fred D |
| Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Originally posted by Fred D Non-imperical, but I can give you an n =1 ^^^Originally posted by Jason N St. George this year seemed about average. Winning times in the low 3:50's with a stacked pro field. But I think the winds weren't blowing like they were at IMSG in 2012. Sort of like Honu/Kona I suppose. When the winds aren't blowing, winners at Honu/Kona can go 3:52/8:10 respectively. But when the winds do blow, winnning times can be 4:02/8:28 respectively. Adding 10/20 minutes of course difficulty for a pro due to weather is like adding 15/35 minutes for a AGer looking to shoot for sub 5 or sub 11. IMSG is hard, but honestly if you push yourself all HIMs are hard. Finishing times are so hard to know as there was a strong field in this race and often newer and slower triathletes tend to choose flatter courses. This is just a non-empirical observation of mine... |
| 2013-08-28 6:02 PM in reply to: switch |
Master 2264 Sunbury, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Sub 5:00 for first HIM, realistic or insane Originally posted by switch n+2 over here. Originally posted by Fred D Non-imperical, but I can give you an n =1 ^^^ Originally posted by Jason N St. George this year seemed about average. Winning times in the low 3:50's with a stacked pro field. But I think the winds weren't blowing like they were at IMSG in 2012. Sort of like Honu/Kona I suppose. When the winds aren't blowing, winners at Honu/Kona can go 3:52/8:10 respectively. But when the winds do blow, winnning times can be 4:02/8:28 respectively. Adding 10/20 minutes of course difficulty for a pro due to weather is like adding 15/35 minutes for a AGer looking to shoot for sub 5 or sub 11. IMSG is hard, but honestly if you push yourself all HIMs are hard. Finishing times are so hard to know as there was a strong field in this race and often newer and slower triathletes tend to choose flatter courses. This is just a non-empirical observation of mine... |
|
|
|
|
| |||
| |||
| My first sub 2 minute 100 yards! Pages: 1 2 | ||
| |||
| 5:00 mile possible? Pages: 1 2 |
| ||||
|
| |||
|
| |||
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK