General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals? Rss Feed  
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2013-09-12 7:07 PM

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Master
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Sunbury, Pennsylvania
Subject: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
My hot spots are not getting better. I raced nations tri sunday and my foot is on fire. I rode 24 miles dead flat easy today from ocean city md to dewey beach. I have a sprint tri here saturday. Dead flat 15 miles. I am considering putting plain pedals on the bike and going in my running shoes to see if I get the same problems.

Anyone else go this route? Happy? Did you lose speed?

Edited by TheClaaaw 2013-09-12 7:09 PM



2013-09-12 7:09 PM
in reply to: TheClaaaw

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Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals
Use what makes you comfortable for the distances you want to ride and is safe.

Too many get wrapped around the HOLY COW you're giving up 1 second in an IM. NOOOOOOOOOOOO

Enjoy what you're doing. If that means beach cruiser bike with flat pedals, so be it

2013-09-12 7:10 PM
in reply to: 0

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Champion
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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals

Yes.  Hotspot issues can be worked out.  But if you need to revert for one race, then do what you need to do.

Mark



Edited by RedCorvette 2013-09-12 7:12 PM
2013-09-12 7:17 PM
in reply to: #4854475

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Veteran
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Houston, TX
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
Have you had a good bike fit? My bike fitter made corrections to my shoes as well as my bike.

And yes, you would be downgrading.
2013-09-12 7:22 PM
in reply to: TheClaaaw

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Master
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Sedona, AZ
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
Where are the hot spots? I'll bet its a fit problem with the shoe. Either too tight, not a stiff enough sole, or too small. I'd try a few different types of shoes and see if another kind fits you better.
2013-09-12 7:47 PM
in reply to: DanielG

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Master
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Sunbury, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals
Originally posted by DanielG

Use what makes you comfortable for the distances you want to ride and is safe.

Too many get wrapped around the HOLY COW you're giving up 1 second in an IM. NOOOOOOOOOOOO

Enjoy what you're doing. If that means beach cruiser bike with flat pedals, so be it


Hey hey, let's not get crazy with the beach cruiser thing. Actually....... I'm surrounded by them and they look delightful.

I think I skipped part of the learning curve when I bought a roadie a couple years ago. I hadn't really been on a bike in years, and that was a cheap knock-around "mountain" bike. So I've never done toe cages, or even just a flat pedal in my time on a bike trying to go fast as an adult.



2013-09-12 7:54 PM
in reply to: 0

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Master
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Sunbury, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
Originally posted by MonkeyClaw

Where are the hot spots? I'll bet its a fit problem with the shoe. Either too tight, not a stiff enough sole, or too small. I'd try a few different types of shoes and see if another kind fits you better.

I haven't had a thorough fit on this bike, and I swapped out cleats to fit the Look pedals that came on this one. I seem to recall this being an issue with my first bike too,mbut I assumed it was just being such a newbie. I doubt it could be lack of stiffmess, these shoes are like a solid piece of rock on the bottom. I wouldn't know how to go about trying different shoes to see what works, withut buying several pair, and that simply isn't in the budget. I know of one LbS that has a set of demo saddles in the same line that can be borrowed, but I've never asked anyone about shoes.

The kicker is, somewhere at home I have my original toe cage pedals that I've never used. But here I am out of town, thinking that maybe I should see if a local shop has a pair of cheap, used flats I can throw on for the weekend. Or maybe I should just put on thick socks and HTFU for a short ride like this. Sort it out long term when I get home.

Edited by TheClaaaw 2013-09-12 7:56 PM

2013-09-12 8:23 PM
in reply to: TheClaaaw

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
how about the actual shoes? are you sure they work for you? if you have the time/money, make an appointment with Steve at Bike Doctor in Arnold, MD or Matt with All American Bicycles in Damascus, MD.  I know you are in PA, but they are both excellent fitters and shouldn't be that far.
2013-09-12 8:40 PM
in reply to: turtlegirl

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Master
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Sunbury, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
Originally posted by turtlegirl

how about the actual shoes? are you sure they work for you? if you have the time/money, make an appointment with Steve at Bike Doctor in Arnold, MD or Matt with All American Bicycles in Damascus, MD.  I know you are in PA, but they are both excellent fitters and shouldn't be that far.

I have no idea. I have nothing to compare them to, as they are the only bike shoes I've ever had. I did put in some orthotics off-the-shelf from the same shop, ut they just made the shoes too tight. They seemed pricey enough to me at the time, around 100 I believe, which I was naive enough to think constituted a lot of money before I started seeing what oeople spend on bike shoes. But truthfully, if I could invest 250 and ot have this problem again, it would be the best investment in my continued training/racing. Whether that's a fitting or new shoes I won't know until I spend the cash on both It would seem. This is why I'm tempted to just abandon the whole idea and keep my running shoes and flat pedals.

2013-09-12 8:50 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
Originally posted by TheClaaaw

This is why I'm tempted to just abandon the whole idea and keep my running shoes and flat pedals.


If you go the running shoe route, consider some of these platforms, or similar, that might be a bit better (supposedly?) than just traditional toe cages.

http://www.tri-zone.com/Details.html?cat=69&item=PYPLT

ETA: Also, there are a few threads on ST discussing Thompson/Pyro platforms.




Edited by Goosedog 2013-09-12 8:54 PM
2013-09-12 9:08 PM
in reply to: Goosedog

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Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
what kind of shoes? I thought my Sidi mountain bike shoes were stiff but at the 100km mark I got hot spots every time. With my new bike I got Bont shoes which have a fiberglass sole - they were STIFF! and... no more hot spots.


2013-09-12 9:25 PM
in reply to: DaveL

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Master
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Sunbury, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
Originally posted by DaveL

what kind of shoes? I thought my Sidi mountain bike shoes were stiff but at the 100km mark I got hot spots every time. With my new bike I got Bont shoes which have a fiberglass sole - they were STIFF! and... no more hot spots.

interesting. I really appreciate all this great input. I got a pm about a place not too far from me that may be just where I need to visit tomorrow while the kids play on the beach.

My threshhold is much lower. I got trouble today at mile 9-10. I stopped at a walgreens in bethany to get socks, doubled up, which worked. For four miles,then it was back. Perhaps an important detail I left out: from visiting a podiatrist, I learned a sick sad irony of my years as a super heavyweight. The one place on my body withno fat is the bottom of my feet. I wore off the padding, and I don't fully understand the biology, but they won't go back to normal with weight loss. The damage is done. I get ridiculous callouses on the balls of my feet and my toes. So there's that. Ad yet I dream of ultra running some day? I'll justdeal with this bike pain for now.

2013-09-12 9:30 PM
in reply to: TheClaaaw

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Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
Originally posted by TheClaaaw

Perhaps an important detail I left out: from visiting a podiatrist, I learned a sick sad irony of my years as a super heavyweight. The one place on my body withno fat is the bottom of my feet. I wore off the padding, and I don't fully understand the biology, but they won't go back to normal with weight loss. The damage is done. I get ridiculous callouses on the balls of my feet and my toes.


I feel your fat-free foot pain. My feet are pretty much jacked for a variety of reasons, and the lack of fat on the bottom doesn't help. I pretty much walk in some degree of pain constantly. However, I don't really get a ton of particular pain on the bike. Just walking around is worse than biking or running.

2013-09-12 9:37 PM
in reply to: Goosedog

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Master
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Sunbury, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
Originally posted by Goosedog

Originally posted by TheClaaaw

Perhaps an important detail I left out: from visiting a podiatrist, I learned a sick sad irony of my years as a super heavyweight. The one place on my body withno fat is the bottom of my feet. I wore off the padding, and I don't fully understand the biology, but they won't go back to normal with weight loss. The damage is done. I get ridiculous callouses on the balls of my feet and my toes.


I feel your fat-free foot pain. My feet are pretty much jacked for a variety of reasons, and the lack of fat on the bottom doesn't help. I pretty much walk in some degree of pain constantly. However, I don't really get a ton of particular pain on the bike. Just walking around is worse than biking or running.


Well, that sucks to know for both of us, but the picture is getting clearer that adjustments can be made on the bike shoe/fit front. This is a nasty pain that is the real reason I got off the bike at everyaid station in my early summer HIM. I had to rest the feet more than the legs. If I could eliminate this nonsense, maybe my bike training will get on track for the 2014 plans I've made.

Now be honest, you can tell us.... Your feet hurt from kicking so much azz, right?

2013-09-12 9:39 PM
in reply to: TheClaaaw

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Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
Originally posted by TheClaaaw

Now be honest, you can tell us.... Your feet hurt from kicking so much azz, right?


It's the taking names that really hurts.

2013-09-12 10:19 PM
in reply to: TheClaaaw

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Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
As my poor poor feet have discovered, hot spots in clipless pedal shoes can be due to a whole bunch of reasons:
Shoes being too large or too small, or don't fit well, type of cleat, positioning of cleat, type of shoe and sole, shoes too tight/lose, fit on your bike etc.

My first pair of shoes were Shimano road bike shoes with hard plastic soles, costing $90. They fit the best out of the bunch I tried on, but I have the most stupid feet, large and uneven (womens size 10.5 on one foot, 10.1 on the other), crazy skinny (5A), super high arches, and not an single ounce of fat on them (unlike other parts of my body!) thanks to my Mum's genetics. A friend of mine had real hot spots problems on both feet using Shimano SPD cleats/pedals. After getting fitted on her bike and getting advise from the fitter, she switched to Speedplays. I've got Speedplays in my road bike and use SPD's for spin class. Using the same $90 Shimano shoes, I have more hotspot problems with the SPD's than Speedplays, but always had a permanent callus/blister on my right big toe using either Speedplay or SPD. I tried playing around with the positioning of the cleats on the shoes and this did help somewhat in decreasing the hotspot on my left foot.

However, my biggest breakthrough this year was buying a new pair of bike shoes, trying on many many different types in LBSs, doing a ton of research before I bought them, and asking BTers for advice (thanks guys and gals), as I had a restricted budget ($150 absolute max.). I switched to a pair of Specialized Trivent Expert tri shoes, and my blisters/callus/hotspots have completely gone. I can wear the Trivent shoes with no socks, which was never a possibility with the Shimanos, and I have not experienced one single hotspot since then. I had to add two inserts in the shoes due to my super skinny feet, but the fit felt great with them added. I think my secret was getting the right fit, and the carbon/fibreglass soles certainly help too as they are SUPER STIFF!

I now have super happy cycling feet, and I hope you get to this happy land too


2013-09-13 12:35 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
I have look pedals as well. Have you tried to change the cleet positions at all?

I had some hot spots earlier this year and when I fiddled around with the cleet position they were much better. Wearing thick socks helped too.

Edited by LPJmom 2013-09-13 12:36 PM
2013-09-13 12:57 PM
in reply to: #4854475

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Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
I had hot spots on longer rides too,it was pretty unbearable at times. I went to my LBS to ask them what the problem was and they said probably too much flexibility in the shoe. I purchased a new pair of carbon soled bike shoes and then later in the same season when I had a bike fit I got some of the Specialized custom inserts, AND had my cleat position changed - since then no hot spots at all.

When I ride my hybrid bike wearing running shoes I am always struck by how inefficient pedalling is without a clipless system. You will probably feel the same if you make the switch.

I know that your plan is to do Ironman next year and to be honest I think you would be better getting your shoes replaced/ cleat position altered so that you can have the most efficient and comfortable ride during training and the Ironman race next year .
2013-09-13 1:15 PM
in reply to: slowbuthappy

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Master
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Sunbury, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
UPDATE..... At he recommendaiton of jmk-brooklyn, I took a side trip this morning to Delmar, to visit Pedal Works Cyclery. I left with new shoes and cleats. I was also prepared to do the basic fit fee, but with a seat post stuck due to rusted bolt and no available asjustable stems (which I did not know existed until a customer with car accident injuries showed me one on her bike)... They didn't chare me for the bit of fitting we did. One thing I hadn't considered was the angle at which I walk. The staff guy put my cleats on at a bit of an angle after watching me walk. I have a very stiff sole now, but the $400 carbons were out of range. I have composite soles with the cool dial system for tightening. I'll give it a go tomorrow and report back.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I was ready to give up on clips, which is a blasphemous thing to say in a bike shop I found out.

So, my hearty recommendation for Pedal Works Cyclery and their staff.

2013-09-13 1:16 PM
in reply to: LPJmom

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Extreme Veteran
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Raleigh, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?

I'm going to draw a comparison between cycling shoes and ski boots - in relation to the fit.  There are certain ski boot brands out there I could  never wear due to the sizing of the 'last' ... by 'last' I mean the size each brand allows for the sole, shape for insole and arch along with cavity sizing for the toe area, the instep and heel.  The shape and sizing one manufacturer uses to design is usually different from other manufacturers.   This has to be the same with cycling shoes as well ... there is no 'one size fits all'.

For the long term, I'd make a phone call to the shoe 'fitters' listed above and discuss with these your dilemma, along with size and shape of your foot.  These could most likely steer you towards a shoe brand better suited to fit your foot.

Short term ... I like your idea of the running shoes as the first goal is to have fun, followed by knowing you competed and overall time as well.  Hope this helps.

2013-09-13 1:48 PM
in reply to: Dorm57

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Champion
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Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
As much as I dread the clipless pedals I know they much a huge difference. I am glad you gotten take care of.


2013-09-13 1:59 PM
in reply to: TheClaaaw

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Expert
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Floriduh
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
I'd prolly look at getting some toe cages, but I doubt you're gonna give up that much, and you'll save time in T2 not having to put on running shoes
2013-09-13 2:31 PM
in reply to: TheClaaaw

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Champion
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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
Originally posted by TheClaaaw UPDATE..... At he recommendaiton of jmk-brooklyn, I took a side trip this morning to Delmar, to visit Pedal Works Cyclery. I left with new shoes and cleats. I was also prepared to do the basic fit fee, but with a seat post stuck due to rusted bolt and no available asjustable stems (which I did not know existed until a customer with car accident injuries showed me one on her bike)... They didn't chare me for the bit of fitting we did. One thing I hadn't considered was the angle at which I walk. The staff guy put my cleats on at a bit of an angle after watching me walk. I have a very stiff sole now, but the $400 carbons were out of range. I have composite soles with the cool dial system for tightening. I'll give it a go tomorrow and report back.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I was ready to give up on clips, which is a blasphemous thing to say in a bike shop I found out.

So, my hearty recommendation for Pedal Works Cyclery and their staff.

Glad to hear you got things worked out.  Smile

My fitter was able to pick up on the fact that my left leg is somewhat shorter than my right and shimmed my left cleat to compensate.  A little thing, but it helped to eliminate some knee, hip and lower back issues.  It would probably help to go back after your race and do some more tweaking.

Good luck with your race!

Mark

 

2013-09-13 2:35 PM
in reply to: TheClaaaw

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Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?
Reply to the Subject: Yes

But you have to do what you have to do. Some pros don't ride P5's, the ride P3's. Some don't use discs real wheels. Some cold water races have swimmers in bathing suits that could afford a wetsuit (I may be one of them at Rev3Tri Branson).

You might not even be slower.
2013-09-13 3:34 PM
in reply to: FranzZemen

Master
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Subject: RE: Am I downgrading if I give up clipless pedals?

I'm surprised no one asked about the type of pedals / cleats you were using.  A wider one - probably SPD-SL, distributes the pressure across more surface area on your foot.

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