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ITU London Grand Final
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 2013-09-16 9:44 PM |
Expert  2355    Madison, Wisconsin |  Subject: ITU London Grand FinalThis year in ITU has been absolutely awesome. The culmination of the series was no less then spectacular. From Brownlee calling and pointing out everyone in the front group that wasn't pulling their weight, to Mola running through the field for third. Don't forget Alistar finishing the race, and probably beating everyone on this forum by at least 3-4 minutes. This might have been the best race to watch all year. How fast did Gomez/Brownlee run? Get on your treadmill set it to the max and run for 29 minutes, you will still lose, but see how long you can hang on. |
| 2013-09-16 9:55 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Pro 15655  | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by bcagle25 This year in ITU has been absolutely awesome. The culmination of the series was no less then spectacular. From Brownlee calling and pointing out everyone in the front group that wasn't pulling their weight, to Mola running through the field for third. Don't forget Alistar finishing the race, and probably beating everyone on this forum by at least 3-4 minutes. This might have been the best race to watch all year. How fast did Gomez/Brownlee run? Get on your treadmill set it to the max and run for 29 minutes, you will still lose, but see how long you can hang on. Bush league move. There are a lot of tactics that go into a draft legal race.....that was just running his mouth as a tactic of his own. Who cares what Brownlee says in the middle of a race? |
| 2013-09-17 3:36 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by bcagle25 This year in ITU has been absolutely awesome. The culmination of the series was no less then spectacular. From Brownlee calling and pointing out everyone in the front group that wasn't pulling their weight, to Mola running through the field for third. Don't forget Alistar finishing the race, and probably beating everyone on this forum by at least 3-4 minutes. This might have been the best race to watch all year. How fast did Gomez/Brownlee run? Get on your treadmill set it to the max and run for 29 minutes, you will still lose, but see how long you can hang on. Bush league move. There are a lot of tactics that go into a draft legal race.....that was just running his mouth as a tactic of his own. Who cares what Brownlee says in the middle of a race? Which is why it didn't bother me, and I was glad to see it. Tactics in general to try and impose your will on a race is much more exciting to watch than just "racing your race." Nobody had to listen to him, but it's still entertaining to watch. |
| 2013-09-17 6:11 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by Left Brain Bush league move. There are a lot of tactics that go into a draft legal race.....that was just running his mouth as a tactic of his own. Who cares what Brownlee says in the middle of a race? Pretty much everyone in that peloton cares... having the Brownlees pull means that the entire group will go faster hence better placement for most of them then if they go into T2 with a group of 40-50. Unlike most of the others, the Brownlees doesn't need to have a gap to defend a position, they can outrun almost everyone (with exception of Gomez in London...). The only thing Brownlee did different than most was that he was very vocal and obvious, in most other peloton's, you talk to a few people and get the group going that way. |
| 2013-09-17 7:43 AM in reply to: audiojan |
| 553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by audiojan Originally posted by Left Brain Bush league move. There are a lot of tactics that go into a draft legal race.....that was just running his mouth as a tactic of his own. Who cares what Brownlee says in the middle of a race? Pretty much everyone in that peloton cares... having the Brownlees pull means that the entire group will go faster hence better placement for most of them then if they go into T2 with a group of 40-50. Unlike most of the others, the Brownlees doesn't need to have a gap to defend a position, they can outrun almost everyone (with exception of Gomez in London...). The only thing Brownlee did different than most was that he was very vocal and obvious, in most other peloton's, you talk to a few people and get the group going that way. I like the vocal approach. Wiggins got a repuation in last years tour of organisaing things quitely and got the nickname The Colonel. For handing out orders quietly and getting riders to work for him. Very effective but does not make great TV. Great fun when riders agree to stick the knife in and drop a following group. Annoying when some try to minimise the effort by not digging in. Well done for Gomez for saving his real final kick for when it could win the race. |
| 2013-09-17 9:45 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final I disagree and not a bush league move IMO, after all it is a race not time to sit in. The Brownlees made some comment awhile back saying that they didn't ride thousands of miles on their bikes only to have a swim/run race. They want to swim/bike/run as hard as they can and they do it damn near every time. I think a huge reason to why they are so dominant right now with Gomez is that they are the only ones willing to push so hard the entire race. |
| 2013-09-17 10:01 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by audiojan Originally posted by Left Brain Bush league move. There are a lot of tactics that go into a draft legal race.....that was just running his mouth as a tactic of his own. Who cares what Brownlee says in the middle of a race? Pretty much everyone in that peloton cares... having the Brownlees pull means that the entire group will go faster hence better placement for most of them then if they go into T2 with a group of 40-50. Unlike most of the others, the Brownlees doesn't need to have a gap to defend a position, they can outrun almost everyone (with exception of Gomez in London...). The only thing Brownlee did different than most was that he was very vocal and obvious, in most other peloton's, you talk to a few people and get the group going that way. Blah......I don't know how many draft legal races I've been to, dozens and dozens......the guys who can really run rarely take a turn on the front. Hell, Verzbikas will just sit in and laugh at anyone who suggests he take a turn pulling.....slow the pack down to nothing and let the chase pack catch up....he doesn't care, because he'll outrun everyone in the field anyway. (prior to his injuries from the crash) As for the entire group going faster if Brownlee pulls....who cares? It's not a race against the clock, it's a race against each other. Let Brownlee pull the entire race and see how his run goes. Yeah, it's funny to hear the yapping that goes on.....but that's all it is. Edited by Left Brain 2013-09-17 10:14 AM |
| 2013-09-17 11:21 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by audiojan Originally posted by Left Brain Bush league move. There are a lot of tactics that go into a draft legal race.....that was just running his mouth as a tactic of his own. Who cares what Brownlee says in the middle of a race? Pretty much everyone in that peloton cares... having the Brownlees pull means that the entire group will go faster hence better placement for most of them then if they go into T2 with a group of 40-50. Unlike most of the others, the Brownlees doesn't need to have a gap to defend a position, they can outrun almost everyone (with exception of Gomez in London...). The only thing Brownlee did different than most was that he was very vocal and obvious, in most other peloton's, you talk to a few people and get the group going that way. Blah......I don't know how many draft legal races I've been to, dozens and dozens......the guys who can really run rarely take a turn on the front. Hell, Verzbikas will just sit in and laugh at anyone who suggests he take a turn pulling.....slow the pack down to nothing and let the chase pack catch up....he doesn't care, because he'll outrun everyone in the field anyway. (prior to his injuries from the crash) As for the entire group going faster if Brownlee pulls....who cares? It's not a race against the clock, it's a race against each other. Let Brownlee pull the entire race and see how his run goes. Yeah, it's funny to hear the yapping that goes on.....but that's all it is. In the case of London, if they didn't let the chase pack gain ground Mola and several others would never have reached back into the race, so 3rd place would have been up for grabs. Verzbikas's attitude in this sport won't get him anywhere and hearing about how his attitude is in the pack from what you say he will most likely get spit on on the runs, look for Ben Kanute to be a different story and the next big American in draft legal racing. However the chips may fall I think the rest of ITU racers need to take a different strategy as they have the past few seasons. Alistar (before Sunday and his injuries) has won 10 of the last 10 races he has been in. In fact I can't think of the last time when either of the Brownlees or Gomez hasn't won or been in second. Those three have compete control over everyone else in the races and will continue to be so until they other change the way they race because they sure as heck won't outrun them. |
| 2013-09-17 11:51 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by bcagle25 Those three have compete control over everyone else in the races and will continue to be so until they other change the way they race because they sure as heck won't outrun them. Article here on (injury permitting) AB stepping down (up?) to run 10,000m at the Commonwealth Games. Such is the strength of his running. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/sep/09/alistair-brownlee-worl... Edited by badmo77a 2013-09-17 11:52 AM |
| 2013-09-17 11:59 AM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by bcagle25 Originally posted by Left Brain In the case of London, if they didn't let the chase pack gain ground Mola and several others would never have reached back into the race, so 3rd place would have been up for grabs. Verzbikas's attitude in this sport won't get him anywhere and hearing about how his attitude is in the pack from what you say he will most likely get spit on on the runs, look for Ben Kanute to be a different story and the next big American in draft legal racing. However the chips may fall I think the rest of ITU racers need to take a different strategy as they have the past few seasons. Alistar (before Sunday and his injuries) has won 10 of the last 10 races he has been in. In fact I can't think of the last time when either of the Brownlees or Gomez hasn't won or been in second. Those three have compete control over everyone else in the races and will continue to be so until they other change the way they race because they sure as heck won't outrun them. Originally posted by audiojan Originally posted by Left Brain Bush league move. There are a lot of tactics that go into a draft legal race.....that was just running his mouth as a tactic of his own. Who cares what Brownlee says in the middle of a race? Pretty much everyone in that peloton cares... having the Brownlees pull means that the entire group will go faster hence better placement for most of them then if they go into T2 with a group of 40-50. Unlike most of the others, the Brownlees doesn't need to have a gap to defend a position, they can outrun almost everyone (with exception of Gomez in London...). The only thing Brownlee did different than most was that he was very vocal and obvious, in most other peloton's, you talk to a few people and get the group going that way. Blah......I don't know how many draft legal races I've been to, dozens and dozens......the guys who can really run rarely take a turn on the front. Hell, Verzbikas will just sit in and laugh at anyone who suggests he take a turn pulling.....slow the pack down to nothing and let the chase pack catch up....he doesn't care, because he'll outrun everyone in the field anyway. (prior to his injuries from the crash) As for the entire group going faster if Brownlee pulls....who cares? It's not a race against the clock, it's a race against each other. Let Brownlee pull the entire race and see how his run goes. Yeah, it's funny to hear the yapping that goes on.....but that's all it is. I agree with you regarding Kanute.....and Tony Smoragiewicz comes out of the Junior ranks next year and will do some damage of his own in a few years.....he's a 14:55 5K'er off the bike already. A tactical mistake cost him the first pack in London, but he's usually a very solid and consistent triathlete. You are also correct regarding the run.....it has quickly become the whole deal. At the upper level of draft legal racing the runners will dominate, as we've seen. I don't know what kind of strategy you can use to wipe out the advantage that the really fast runners have. As long as they can swim well enough to catch the first pack and hang on.....it's their race. Look, you can say what you want about Verzbicas, but the idea is to win the race. Like I said, I watch alot of draft legal racing, and he's nowhere close to the only really fast runner who is content to sit in....if you can outrun the entire field no matter what happens on the bike, why cook your legs? |
| 2013-09-17 12:24 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
| 246 | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Obviously the Brownlees are great racers, but watching Allistar finger point left me rooting for the others. One of the riders did actually laugh at him and shake his head a bit. You race your own race and take advantage where you can. If you're sitting on the back not taking your turn pulling, then at some point, this race or in the future, you'll most likely get spit out. Things always sort out over time. If you have the same race strategy as Brownlee then follow his orders....might as well stamp your ticket as a non-team member domestique. Using your head is part of sport. |
| 2013-09-17 12:28 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final That bike course needed a hill. |
| 2013-09-17 12:29 PM in reply to: cpzone |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by cpzone Obviously the Brownlees are great racers, but watching Allistar finger point left me rooting for the others. One of the riders did actually laugh at him and shake his head a bit. You race your own race and take advantage where you can. If you're sitting on the back not taking your turn pulling, then at some point, this race or in the future, you'll most likely get spit out. Things always sort out over time. If you have the same race strategy as Brownlee then follow his orders....might as well stamp your ticket as a non-team member domestique. Using your head is part of sport. It was bush league to call others out for not pulling......I've seen Brownlee sit in plenty himself. Bottom line is Allistar knew damn well he was not going to be a factor in the finish, and he was doing all he could to save his brother's legs from Gomez. I'm glad it worked out like it did.
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| 2013-09-17 12:30 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by Jason N That bike course needed a hill. You are right! That could be one way to spread the field out a bit and you rarely see it with ITU draft legal courses. Lots of RD's like to make a course as "technical" as possible with turns, but damn few have a decent climb. |
| 2013-09-17 1:49 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Jason N That bike course needed a hill. You are right! That could be one way to spread the field out a bit and you rarely see it with ITU draft legal courses. Lots of RD's like to make a course as "technical" as possible with turns, but damn few have a decent climb. Yeah...doesn't need to be a mountain. A 300-400m long hill at 5% is enough to allow for the strong bikers to peg it and the wheel suckers at least to red line themselves to keep up...or get spit out. It would also make it much more interesting as guys would need to fight for position at the front just before the climb as you don't want to get gapped behind a guy who's going to get dropped. |
| 2013-09-17 2:00 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Extreme Veteran 801 Ballston Spa, NY | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Is there a recap video of the race some where? |
| 2013-09-17 2:04 PM in reply to: cornick |
Extreme Veteran 801 Ballston Spa, NY | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final |
| 2013-09-17 2:15 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 246 | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by Left Brain It was bush league to call others out for not pulling......I've seen Brownlee sit in plenty himself. Bottom line is Allistar knew damn well he was not going to be a factor in the finish, and he was doing all he could to save his brother's legs from Gomez. I'm glad it worked out like it did.
Big-time agree with LB Edited by cpzone 2013-09-17 2:17 PM |
| 2013-09-17 2:49 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by Jason N That bike course needed a hill. Watch the Auckland/Madrid races this year, they had hills Or for fun watch Kitzbuhl, now that was entertaining "Look at Sven Riederer, he looks like he's a 70 y/o man that has been beaten by a baseball bat" when commented on his running in the mountains....to funny. |
| 2013-09-17 2:54 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| 553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by Jason N That bike course needed a hill. "Brownlee admits that his reaction to a flat and "boring" course is unlikely to change. "It's got a lot of nostalgia and sentimental value for us because we've done it a few times now. Apart from that it's not got a lot to offer on its own. But last year the event was made by the crowds and we had a great race. I expect the same this time." It is a dull course if you ignore the 800 year old architecture. |
| 2013-09-17 3:00 PM in reply to: badmo77a |
| Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by badmo77a Originally posted by Jason N "Brownlee admits that his reaction to a flat and "boring" course is unlikely to change. "It's got a lot of nostalgia and sentimental value for us because we've done it a few times now. Apart from that it's not got a lot to offer on its own. But last year the event was made by the crowds and we had a great race. I expect the same this time." It is a dull course if you ignore the 800 year old architecture. That bike course needed a hill. True...and when it comes down to it, that bike course set up a showdown on the run that was one for the ages. I'm sure the ITU is perfectly happy with a dull bike course when the run finishes how it did. |
| 2013-09-17 6:11 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Elite 4435 | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by Jason N That bike course needed a hill. Listened to a Macca podcast yesterday - he said the same thing they gotta start putting a hill in these races - not as extreme as Kitzbuhel but something to tire those legs! |
| 2013-09-17 11:04 PM in reply to: jobaxas |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final See my post above they have in other courses, but they designed this course PERFECTLY for a grand final. |
| 2013-09-17 11:24 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by bcagle25 See my post above they have in other courses, but they designed this course PERFECTLY for a grand final. The course was designed to play to Brownlee's strength........for the 2012 Olympics. |
| 2013-09-18 5:12 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: ITU London Grand Final Originally posted by Left Brain The course was designed to play to Brownlee's strength........for the 2012 Olympics. Based on the ITU results since Beijing, that would have been pretty much any short course triathlon. Shane |
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