Weight training for improving biking? (Page 5)

Eh...sorry to be a pain about this, but I really want to understand this stuff.  To the bolded:

So if we improve aerobic conditioning, while also improving 1RM, can't we access a higher fraction, meaning more strength/power?  I get that we are only accessing a fraction, but a fraction of 1000 is greater than the same fraction of 500, no? 

True, but it's not going to be the same fraction. Especially with the different energy systems involved.

Originally posted by tomspharmacy  Aha, a breakthrough admission

???

If you improve aerobic conditioning, you can access a higher fraction of 1RM.  If you also improve 1RM, you may or may not access a higher fraction (although, again, the 20-25% is not a measure of what pecentage of 1RM the typical cyclist produces--so I think that number is largely unrelated to the question you are asking).  Aerobic fitness is the limiter, not 1RM.  You can boost 1RM as high as you like.  If you don't also improve aerobic conditioning (and it may be difficult to meaningfully raise 1RM without any improvment in aerobic conditioning, but this is the theory), it will basically 'sit idle'.  I believe this is the crux of it.

To the extent that strength training is beneficial, it does seem to be linked to 'low rep, high resistance' activities.  In running, this has been shown the most consistently with plyometrics where the 'transmission' is actually through better running economy.  I am not sure what kind of evidence exists on the cycling side.  But it is those elite atheltes, like your son, that seem most likley to want to pursure the marginal gains that might be achieved with such a program.  Whether he is ready for it (development-wise), I am nowhere near qualified enough to opine.

Yes, you nailed it.  That's why I'm so interested and trying to dig into anything I can find on the subject.  He has been told by some coaches/people that a weight program will help him.  He has been told by others that it is not necessary yet, and may never be.  The reasons are those we are discussing here vs. the fact that he is still growing and making good gains without a program that could lead to needless injury at his young age.  So my wife and I are left with trying to get ourselves in a position that we can help make a decision based on at least some science and study.  Even the idea of WHEN he would be ready, as you say, development wise, is all over the page.

This is exactly what I was going to say.  IMO, as a coach and father, if he's still making gains, and you want him to be able to continue competing long-term, adding strength training that targets imbalances (both existing and potential caused by large amounts of s/b/r), stability, and movement dysfunctions would be beneficial.

ETA:  If/when he stops making gains, then ST with the goal of maximal strength improvements might make more sense - Not a light weight/high rep program, but a high weight/low rep program instead.

word.  one of the best threads I've ever participated in.

I agree with much of what Ben is saying.  Reading my posts, it may sound like I'm opposed to strength training, but I'm actually a proponent of it.  Just not traditional generic strength programs that can be found online and in magazines, and not with the intent of making someone faster directly.

Maybe it's semantics, but I do differ slightly from what Ben is saying.  Rather than doing strength training with the goal of reducing fatigue while racing, my opinion is to use it primarily to correct or avoid imbalances, postural issues, and movement dysfunctions allowing the athlete to handle a greater training load before their body breaks down and reduce the risk of injuries caused by imbalances, postural issues, and movement dysfunctions, which then results in faster racing.

Basically, strength training won't make an athlete significantly faster, but the right custom program can improve their potential to go faster.

This graph clearly shows that weight training improves cycling power.

(cycling power with weight training graph.jpg)