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30 tooth cassette instead of 28?
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 2013-10-10 7:51 PM |
 297   Arden, North Carolina |  Subject: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28?I still have the original 12-25 that came with my P2 and thought about buying another this offseason to make the hills a bit easier, I was going to get a 11-28(also giving a bit more speed on the downhills, assuming I understand the gearing properly), but while looking, I just noticed that Shimano Ultegra now offers a 12-30. Just wanted to get some thoughts on the 12-30 vs the 11-28. I live in western NC so hills/mountains are quite frequent. Hoped to get some feedback. |
| 2013-10-10 7:57 PM in reply to: TriDadinAsheville |
Champion 19812   MA | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Do you have a compact or standard crank up front? |
| 2013-10-10 7:59 PM in reply to: KathyG |
| 297 Arden, North Carolina | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? I believe it is a compact. |
| 2013-10-10 8:19 PM in reply to: TriDadinAsheville |
Master 2855 Kailua, Hawaii | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? what rear derailleur do you have ? and chain rings ? check the max tooth capacity and the max chain wrap of the rear derailleur , to make sure you can accommodate the 30. |
| 2013-10-11 11:37 AM in reply to: metafizx |
| Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? I ran a compact and 12-30 at IM Canada. I would have preferred a compact/11-28. |
| 2013-10-11 3:03 PM in reply to: TriDadinAsheville |
| 754 | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? I live in WV and recently replaced my 25t with 28t. When I did it, the sales guy at the LBS shook his head and told me not to train in it. He was right, I don't really need it, but I wanted it because in a race, it is death before dismount and I had a hilly race coming up. Outside of a test ride, I have yet to use it, and the adrenaline of the race meant I didn't even need the 25t. Also, a 30t cassette will almost guarantee that you will need a new rear derailleur. I wouldn't do it. If you are making it up the hills now, the easier climbing gear will just make you a weaker rider. The 11t will only help you on the descents if you are still pedaling. If you are still pedaling going downhill, the uphills aren't steep enough for you to need a special climbing gear. Save your money. |
| 2013-10-11 4:20 PM in reply to: happyscientist |
| Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? If you are making it up the hills now, the easier climbing gear will just make you a weaker rider. Ummm, no. I've had a compact for 3 seasons now, climb lots and lots of hills, and am a much stronger rider this past season than ever before (top 10% overall on the bike at hilly Wildflower). |
| 2013-10-11 5:09 PM in reply to: happyscientist |
Master 2855 Kailua, Hawaii | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Originally posted by happyscientist I live in WV and recently replaced my 25t with 28t. When I did it, the sales guy at the LBS shook his head and told me not to train in it. He was right, I don't really need it, but I wanted it because in a race, it is death before dismount and I had a hilly race coming up. Outside of a test ride, I have yet to use it, and the adrenaline of the race meant I didn't even need the 25t. Also, a 30t cassette will almost guarantee that you will need a new rear derailleur. I'd say it matters when you are trying to conserve strength in a race during the bike for the run. Having a 28 vs a 25 makes a big difference, esp in the longer races IMO. As for training on it, I don't see a big problem if your rides are hilly. But you don't want to always resort to the "spinning" in the granny gear. Mashing it out will develop leg strength, and you will find the bigger gears easier. Sometimes it's necessary to spin, and the 28 is good on the steeper hills when tired. I agree you probably should consider the 11-28 vs 12-30, mainly because the 30 might not work with your current RD. |
| 2013-10-11 6:08 PM in reply to: TriDadinAsheville |
| 33 | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? My Quintara Roo came with a 11-25 cassette. I really struggled on the long hills here in Central New York. Switched it out with a Ultegra 12-30 cassette. Made big difference when climbing. It essentially gave me two extra gears allowing me to better control my heart rate and effort. The bike had a short cage Ultegra RD. I used the same chain and just adjusted the b screw until the chain ran quietly when in the 30 tooth sprocket. Had to tweek the cable tension slightly until my shifts were silky smooth. The only additional change I'm going to make is go back tho the 11 tooth sprocket. This will give me a little more downhill speed. |
| 2013-10-11 7:26 PM in reply to: Macguyverguy |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Originally posted by Macguyverguy My Quintara Roo came with a 11-25 cassette. I really struggled on the long hills here in Central New York. Switched it out with a Ultegra 12-30 cassette. Made big difference when climbing. It essentially gave me two extra gears allowing me to better control my heart rate and effort. The bike had a short cage Ultegra RD. I used the same chain and just adjusted the b screw until the chain ran quietly when in the 30 tooth sprocket. Had to tweek the cable tension slightly until my shifts were silky smooth. The only additional change I'm going to make is go back tho the 11 tooth sprocket. This will give me a little more downhill speed. Going from 25 to 30 is really like getting a gear that is 5 easier not just 2. In general if you do a lot of riding in your easiest gear and go up hills with low cadence you could use another gear or two. I did IMLP with what was new a 11-28 as up until that time 27 was the largest. Next year for IMC I got a funny off brand cassette used for tandems in 11-34 but had to change my chain and rear deraulier as my spec was for up to a 27. I did see a difference in a 34 vs 28 in keeping my power more even on hills but keeping my power more even made my bike splits slightly slower on same course but my VI and power spikes were much improved. |
| 2013-10-12 7:17 AM in reply to: happyscientist |
New user 61 South Central PA | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Originally posted by happyscientist I live in WV and recently replaced my 25t with 28t. When I did it, the sales guy at the LBS shook his head and told me not to train in it. He was right, I don't really need it, but I wanted it because in a race, it is death before dismount and I had a hilly race coming up. Outside of a test ride, I have yet to use it, and the adrenaline of the race meant I didn't even need the 25t. Also, a 30t cassette will almost guarantee that you will need a new rear derailleur. I wouldn't do it. If you are making it up the hills now, the easier climbing gear will just make you a weaker rider. The 11t will only help you on the descents if you are still pedaling. If you are still pedaling going downhill, the uphills aren't steep enough for you to need a special climbing gear. Save your money. This year the 2nd place Savageman finisher used an 11-32. I would definately not call him a weak rider. If the smaller gear helps save your legs more for the run, I would go ahead and use it. |
| 2013-10-12 7:53 AM in reply to: TriDadinAsheville |
Member 124 The 951 | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Originally posted by TriDadinAsheville I still have the original 12-25 that came with my P2 and thought about buying another this offseason to make the hills a bit easier, I was going to get a 11-28(also giving a bit more speed on the downhills, assuming I understand the gearing properly), but while looking, I just noticed that Shimano Ultegra now offers a 12-30. Just wanted to get some thoughts on the 12-30 vs the 11-28. I live in western NC so hills/mountains are quite frequent. Hoped to get some feedback. I run a 12-29 cassette with a compact. That final low gear feels good for the end of ride hills when the hammering is over and you're just spinning. It also made it possible for me to climb some ridiculous hills. I think the one setback for a wide range cassette is that your low gear cadence jumps around more because the cogs jump more than one tooth at a time at the low end. |
| 2013-10-12 10:35 AM in reply to: TriDadinAsheville |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Gear calculator: |
| 2013-10-12 11:02 AM in reply to: BikesOfALesserGod |
| 33 | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Your right, the wider cassettes do have annoying jumps between some of your gears. At first it's very annoying but after a while you get used to it. The trade off is definitely worth it. I find that with the new 12-30 cassette, I now spend almost all my time in the large chain ring. I only switch to the small chain ring when climbing becomes difficult. With the old 11-25 cassette I was doing a lot more shifting between chain rings. Disrupted my flow and slowed me down. |
| 2013-10-12 11:49 AM in reply to: Macguyverguy |
Veteran 151 | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? I'm not to savvy on bike lingo and parts but been trying to follow this thread. I looked up my specs on my 2011 Felt B12 and it says I have an 11-23T because I ride a 650c. You're saying if I upgrade to an 11-28 even I should see some benefits to my riding including climbing, I live in east TX and we have some descent climbs over here  |
| 2013-10-13 3:55 PM in reply to: proudrcf |
| 33 | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Yes! I would think the 650 wheel gives you SLIGHTLY lower gearing anyway. But switching to a 28 tooth cassette should make a big difference. The only question is will you be happy with the wider jumps between gears. |
| 2013-10-14 8:02 AM in reply to: Kenny-A |
| 754 | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Originally posted by Kenny-A Originally posted by happyscientist I live in WV and recently replaced my 25t with 28t. When I did it, the sales guy at the LBS shook his head and told me not to train in it. He was right, I don't really need it, but I wanted it because in a race, it is death before dismount and I had a hilly race coming up. Outside of a test ride, I have yet to use it, and the adrenaline of the race meant I didn't even need the 25t. Also, a 30t cassette will almost guarantee that you will need a new rear derailleur. I wouldn't do it. If you are making it up the hills now, the easier climbing gear will just make you a weaker rider. The 11t will only help you on the descents if you are still pedaling. If you are still pedaling going downhill, the uphills aren't steep enough for you to need a special climbing gear. Save your money. This year the 2nd place Savageman finisher used an 11-32. I would definately not call him a weak rider. If the smaller gear helps save your legs more for the run, I would go ahead and use it. I got the 28t for Savageman Oly, which wasn't nearly as steep as advertised (I think a lot of people conflate the 70 mile race with the 30 mile race). With the steepest climb of only 14%, I didn't come anywhere close to needing the gear. I am actually going to switch back to my old cassette because the closer gearing is smoother and requires less trimming. I stand by what I said--if your hills are shallow enough that you are pedaling going down them, they aren't steep enough to need a special climbing gear. Train more on hills. |
| 2013-10-14 1:57 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by Kenny-A I got the 28t for Savageman Oly, which wasn't nearly as steep as advertised (I think a lot of people conflate the 70 mile race with the 30 mile race). With the steepest climb of only 14%, I didn't come anywhere close to needing the gear. I am actually going to switch back to my old cassette because the closer gearing is smoother and requires less trimming. I stand by what I said--if your hills are shallow enough that you are pedaling going down them, they aren't steep enough to need a special climbing gear. Train more on hills. Originally posted by happyscientist I live in WV and recently replaced my 25t with 28t. When I did it, the sales guy at the LBS shook his head and told me not to train in it. He was right, I don't really need it, but I wanted it because in a race, it is death before dismount and I had a hilly race coming up. Outside of a test ride, I have yet to use it, and the adrenaline of the race meant I didn't even need the 25t. Also, a 30t cassette will almost guarantee that you will need a new rear derailleur. I wouldn't do it. If you are making it up the hills now, the easier climbing gear will just make you a weaker rider. The 11t will only help you on the descents if you are still pedaling. If you are still pedaling going downhill, the uphills aren't steep enough for you to need a special climbing gear. Save your money. This year the 2nd place Savageman finisher used an 11-32. I would definately not call him a weak rider. If the smaller gear helps save your legs more for the run, I would go ahead and use it.
actually, you also said if OP climbs in an easier gear they will become a weaker rider. stand by that statement? Pedaling or coasting down hills has zero to do with whether someone is a good climber or not.
Edited by ChrisM 2013-10-14 1:59 PM |
| 2013-10-14 2:45 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
| 754 | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? As per your signature, the only way to get better at climbing hills is to climb hills. I know a lot of bike racers (and was briefly sucked into it--yuck). They all say not to train in your easiest gear. It is only there as a last resort. That doesn't mean that a person should mash, it means that you need to train to be a stronger hill climber. (I live in a very hilly area). I don't know anyone who pedals going down a 20% grade. Even with the 25t, the only times I used it were on hills steep enough that my front wheel came off the ground. I do use the 11t occasionally, but really I should work more on cadence. By contrast, riding the long, gradual climbs of Colorado, I had several gears to spare, but also spun on the descents. |
| 2013-10-14 2:54 PM in reply to: happyscientist |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? What kind of cadence are you working at going up? |
| 2013-10-14 3:15 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
| 754 | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Originally posted by brigby1 What kind of cadence are you working at going up? I still bounce over 105-110. I wouldn't try to sustain that for extended periods (I settle in around 80), but there are times when one of the guys wants to sprint and a higher cadence would help. |
| 2013-10-14 3:21 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Originally posted by happyscientist As per your signature, the only way to get better at climbing hills is to climb hills. I know a lot of bike racers (and was briefly sucked into it--yuck). They all say not to train in your easiest gear. It is only there as a last resort. That doesn't mean that a person should mash, it means that you need to train to be a stronger hill climber. (I live in a very hilly area). I don't know anyone who pedals going down a 20% grade. Even with the 25t, the only times I used it were on hills steep enough that my front wheel came off the ground. I do use the 11t occasionally, but really I should work more on cadence. By contrast, riding the long, gradual climbs of Colorado, I had several gears to spare, but also spun on the descents. But the question on the table is whether you stand by your comment that riding a compact makes one a weaker rider? (BTW< you do know that a 50/11 is more or less the same as a 54/12?) Edited by ChrisM 2013-10-14 3:36 PM |
| 2013-10-14 3:28 PM in reply to: happyscientist |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by brigby1 I still bounce over 105-110. I wouldn't try to sustain that for extended periods (I settle in around 80), but there are times when one of the guys wants to sprint and a higher cadence would help. What kind of cadence are you working at going up? Sorry, uphill. That's the more relevant part to the discussion. |
| 2013-10-14 3:59 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
| 754 | Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? Originally posted by ChrisM But the question on the table is whether you stand by your comment that riding a compact makes one a weaker rider? (BTW< you do know that a 50/11 is more or less the same as a 54/12?) The OP isn't going to change the crank. They said they think they have a compact (and not knowing indicates that they are trying to buy speed instead of training). It is only the cassette that is in question. However, if someone is strong enough to ride without a compact double (I am not) and switches to a compact on the same terrain, they are not doing themselves any favors (unless there are extenuating circumstances like a bad knee. Look at it this way, you don't see pro cyclists riding compact doubles (again, I am not that strong). |
| 2013-10-14 3:59 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
| Subject: RE: 30 tooth cassette instead of 28? But the question on the table is whether you stand by your comment that riding a compact makes one a weaker rider? (BTW< you do know that a 50/11 is more or less the same as a 54/12?) dernit... 53/12 |
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