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2013-10-24 8:48 AM

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Subject: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
When someone inquires about how to improve their running races or their run split in a triathlon, especially at shorter distance events, they almost always will receive that advice that in order to run fast, you need to run fast in training. While higher intensity running is certainly a component of a well designed training program, to suggest that it is imperative in order to improve one's performance is incorrect.

Since we almost always are discussing distances of 5k or more for racing, it is important to realize that all distances we are discussing are primarily fueled by the aerobic energy pathways which mean training needs to revolve around improving aerobic fitness. Even a standalone 5k only has about a 5% reliance on anaerobic systems so while some training that stresses the anaerobic systems will be beneficial, it should be a very small part of any endurance athlete's training.

It is also important to understand that all training we discuss is aerobic in nature; if we consider Friel's HR zones, zones 1 to 5a are all primarily aerobic in nature although the higher the intensity, the more the anaerobic energy systems will need to supplement the aerobic energy pathways. This is why at higher intensities the body will begin to accumulate lactate as this is indicative that there is some anaerobic metabolism occurring but the anaerobic metabolism is only supporting the aerobic system, not providing all the energy.

So, how does one race faster? One races faster by building aerobic fitness which is achieved by a progressive overload of training. Training load is the product of both volume and intensity so one can increase intensity or fitness in order to increase training load (it is rarely an good idea to increase both at once). With cycling and swimming, since they do not involve eccentric muscle contractions, it is typically much safer to increase intensity and an athlete can typically withstand a training load that is skewed very much toward the intensity side but with running, due to the damage done to the muscles with running, a much lower level of intensity can be maintained so volume becomes much more important. It is even more important to bear this in mind for those who are new to running, are returning from a layoff, often find themselves injured or have limited run frequency.

As one increases training load, there are many markers of aerobic fitness that will improve; these are primarily biochemical in nature and training in all aerobic zones (2-5a) will see aerobic fitness improve and should see the athlete able to race faster across all distances. This is why athletes will often see improvements when they focus on doing lots of zone 2 running because they will typically put in more volume then they have before and therefore they will build fitness. For most athletes looking to improve run performance, they will be best served by taking a solid block of time and focus on running easy as frequently as possible (this is why the BarryP program is so effective) at an easy pace and just put in more miles then they have in the past. You can add very small bouts of intensity to a few runs a week with 4-8x30s strides at 5k pace with 2:00 easy running between but don't worry about needing to do more; if you are putting in consistent volume and with a gradual build, you will build fitness and be able to race faster. Focus on slowly increasing your run volume to the point that you really don't have time to add any additional run volume to your week and then look at starting to look at making one of the runs harder while keeping the others easy.

As a wise man once said, "run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard."

Shane


2013-10-24 9:08 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast

x1000. I love you. That is all.

 

2013-10-24 9:27 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast

I agree with all of this except this: "When someone inquires about how to improve their running races or their run split in a triathlon, especially at shorter distance events, they almost always will receive that advice that in order to run fast, you need to run fast in training."

Most of the responses to this question on BT exactly what you said -- run lots

2013-10-24 9:43 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast

Just want to thank you for be willing to type more than me. 

2013-10-24 10:33 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
Excellent post, Shane.

However, I think there should be a question mark at the end of the title.
2013-10-24 10:36 AM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
Don't make me gush about you again!!! People are gonna get the wrong idea!


2013-10-24 10:41 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast

Shane - you specifically reference the BarryP plan, and he spells out that following a solid period of base building (lets call it 18 weeks), and you begin preparing for an actual race, then you do begin to incorporate tempo runs, and VO2 work, etc. (the longer the distance the more this lessens).  I saw that you mention "As one increases training load, there are many markers of aerobic fitness that will improve; these are primarily biochemical in nature and training in all aerobic zones (2-5a) will see aerobic fitness improve and should see the athlete able to race faster across all distances." 

So are you saying basically the same thing as Barry that you run easy, to be able to run more often, which increases your speed and aerobic fitness - but you're not saying that people should stay away from harder/faster running.  It just doesn't have much of a place in base building - but for your athletes will you incorporate race specific harder (Z3-5a) type runs as they get within a certain timeframe of race day?

2013-10-24 10:50 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast

I'm just piling on with everyone else - Excellent post!

 

2013-10-24 10:52 AM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast

I think about it this way.  I can already run faster than the world record 5k pace and easily run faster than the world record marathon pace....  For about 100 meters.

I don't need to do ANYTHING to get faster - I'm already easily fast enough.  I just need to learn how to be fast as I already am FOR A LONGER TIME, aka, endurance.  So what improves endurance?  Frequent and longer training sessions.  How to increase the frequency and length of training without getting hurt?  Reduce intensity.

Lots of long slower runs = run fast for LONGER.

2013-10-24 11:15 AM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast

Originally posted by Kido

I think about it this way.  I can already run faster than the world record 5k pace and easily run faster than the world record marathon pace....  For about 100 meters.

I don't need to do ANYTHING to get faster - I'm already easily fast enough.  I just need to learn how to be fast as I already am FOR A LONGER TIME, aka, endurance.  So what improves endurance?  Frequent and longer training sessions.  How to increase the frequency and length of training without getting hurt?  Reduce intensity.

Lots of long slower runs = run fast for LONGER.

Great way of putting it simply!

2013-10-24 11:24 AM
in reply to: trishie

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
Originally posted by trishie

I agree with all of this except this: "When someone inquires about how to improve their running races or their run split in a triathlon, especially at shorter distance events, they almost always will receive that advice that in order to run fast, you need to run fast in training."

Most of the responses to this question on BT exactly what you said -- run lots




I agree except that confirmation bias will often lead a poster to see the answer they want or seems most intuitive (run fast) as opposed to the correct answer (run more). I wrote this in hopes that those who want to believe that running fast is crucial may be swayed into the realization that it is not.

Shane


2013-10-24 11:32 AM
in reply to: GoFaster

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
Originally posted by GoFaster

Shane - you specifically reference the BarryP plan, and he spells out that following a solid period of base building (lets call it 18 weeks), and you begin preparing for an actual race, then you do begin to incorporate tempo runs, and VO2 work, etc. (the longer the distance the more this lessens).  I saw that you mention "As one increases training load, there are many markers of aerobic fitness that will improve; these are primarily biochemical in nature and training in all aerobic zones (2-5a) will see aerobic fitness improve and should see the athlete able to race faster across all distances." 

So are you saying basically the same thing as Barry that you run easy, to be able to run more often, which increases your speed and aerobic fitness - but you're not saying that people should stay away from harder/faster running.  It just doesn't have much of a place in base building - but for your athletes will you incorporate race specific harder (Z3-5a) type runs as they get within a certain timeframe of race day?




Correct; I don't think that faster running should be avoided but where possible an athlete should focus on running more easy volume before they start looking to add much intensity to their running. For someone who is newer to running, this will mean lots of easy running during the "base" phase and probably through most of the race specific build as well. For someone with more experience, I may include more than just strides during the "base" phase with lots of easy running and then progress to workouts that mimic the demands of the race (and still lots of easy running).

Shane
2013-10-24 11:43 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast




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2013-10-24 12:16 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast

Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by GoFaster

Shane - you specifically reference the BarryP plan, and he spells out that following a solid period of base building (lets call it 18 weeks), and you begin preparing for an actual race, then you do begin to incorporate tempo runs, and VO2 work, etc. (the longer the distance the more this lessens).  I saw that you mention "As one increases training load, there are many markers of aerobic fitness that will improve; these are primarily biochemical in nature and training in all aerobic zones (2-5a) will see aerobic fitness improve and should see the athlete able to race faster across all distances." 

So are you saying basically the same thing as Barry that you run easy, to be able to run more often, which increases your speed and aerobic fitness - but you're not saying that people should stay away from harder/faster running.  It just doesn't have much of a place in base building - but for your athletes will you incorporate race specific harder (Z3-5a) type runs as they get within a certain timeframe of race day?

Correct; I don't think that faster running should be avoided but where possible an athlete should focus on running more easy volume before they start looking to add much intensity to their running. For someone who is newer to running, this will mean lots of easy running during the "base" phase and probably through most of the race specific build as well. For someone with more experience, I may include more than just strides during the "base" phase with lots of easy running and then progress to workouts that mimic the demands of the race (and still lots of easy running). Shane

Okay - so why do we want/need to run harder sometimes vs. just running easy.

2013-10-24 12:33 PM
in reply to: GoFaster

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
Originally posted by GoFaster

Okay - so why do we want/need to run harder sometimes vs. just running easy.




There are two reasons:

1) To prepare yourself for race day - while it is certainly possible to run faster on race day than on a training run, generally an athlete who has spent some time at race specific paces will be able to tolerate running at a slightly faster pace on race day as they are prepared for the discomfort.

2) http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-training-level... - if you look at the training adaptations in the table, you will see that while level 2 workouts elicit all the aerobic adaptations, it is not the most effective way for elicit any of these adaptations. So at some point, especially once an athlete maxes out the time they have or wish to run, then including some higher intensity work will allow them to continue to increase training load without adding more volume.

Shane
2013-10-24 12:43 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
This is very interesting. Especially as an older runner, I can't really add intensity to my runs. Everytime I do some intervals, etc., I end up sore beyond belief or worse, injured. I did intervals last week, and had tight calves for a week, and my knees still ache. When I thought I was going to do the NYC marathon and was up to 10 miles in training, my calves didn't hurt, nor did my knees. Plantar fasciitis knocked me out, but everything else was good.

So your plan gives me hope. What I do find is that to lose the weight, I need intensity. Even running 20 miles a week in the summer I didn't lose a pound. It is very frustrating. When I did spinning 5 years ago, I lost 20 pounds without any changes in diet. So I think for me, intensity needs to be added to lose the weight, and with that, I will run a bit faster than my kick 13 minute miles!!!

Good information - thank you,
Nancy


2013-10-24 1:31 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast

Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by GoFaster Okay - so why do we want/need to run harder sometimes vs. just running easy.
There are two reasons: 1) To prepare yourself for race day - while it is certainly possible to run faster on race day than on a training run, generally an athlete who has spent some time at race specific paces will be able to tolerate running at a slightly faster pace on race day as they are prepared for the discomfort. 2) http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-training-level... - if you look at the training adaptations in the table, you will see that while level 2 workouts elicit all the aerobic adaptations, it is not the most effective way for elicit any of these adaptations. So at some point, especially once an athlete maxes out the time they have or wish to run, then including some higher intensity work will allow them to continue to increase training load without adding more volume. Shane

Thanks Shane - I think that what some people forget is there are benefits and adaptations that can and do take place when running with higher levels of intensity.  I see a lot of people posting that you'll get "fast" just by running easy, and while you can get faster by running easy, it is also true that to get even faster then incorporating intensity is a means to that end.  I'll add the caveat as you did, that those who are newer runners, should focus on building a mileage base - and this is gained over months and years, not weeks, with lesser amounts of intensity. 

2013-10-24 2:09 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
Originally posted by Asalzwed

Don't make me gush about you again!!! People are gonna get the wrong idea!


I'll gush. Shane is awesome.

2013-10-24 2:09 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
Shane for President!!!
2013-10-24 3:58 PM
in reply to: nancylee

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast

Originally posted by nancylee This is very interesting. Especially as an older runner, I can't really add intensity to my runs. Everytime I do some intervals, etc., I end up sore beyond belief or worse, injured. I did intervals last week, and had tight calves for a week, and my knees still ache. When I thought I was going to do the NYC marathon and was up to 10 miles in training, my calves didn't hurt, nor did my knees. Plantar fasciitis knocked me out, but everything else was good. So your plan gives me hope. What I do find is that to lose the weight, I need intensity. Even running 20 miles a week in the summer I didn't lose a pound. It is very frustrating. When I did spinning 5 years ago, I lost 20 pounds without any changes in diet. So I think for me, intensity needs to be added to lose the weight, and with that, I will run a bit faster than my kick 13 minute miles!!! Good information - thank you, Nancy

What type of intervals are you doing?  How many, how long, and at what pace relative to your usual training and racing paces?

One of the most common misconceptions about intervals is that they should all be done at as hard of an effort as possible.  This is why I don't like the terms "speed work" or "speed intervals".  Instead, I prefer the terms "pace work" or "pace intervals".  Instead of running intervals as hard as possible, they should usually be done at a target pace that's been determined based on your existing abilities, and also not an arbitrary pace you want to achieve on race day.

 

2013-10-24 4:22 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast

Great post and info as usual........if I can just split hairs a bit, but there is eccentric contractions during the pedal stroke.



2013-10-24 5:31 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
this works with all runners? So take a slower runner like myself, I am lucky to dip in to the 8's on any run longer than 6 miles or s my Best olympic i averaged 8:45 for my run so I get blasted by all the runners out there. Run focused winter with all slower work will improve my already dismal times? I guess i am asking if i never run 7's in training how will lots of 9+ min miles convert to that during a race? I am frustrated with my running... my swim and my bike are both strong but even before this IM build up this year while i was just running my times still seem to suck.
2013-10-24 5:48 PM
in reply to: Tryrn

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
Originally posted by Tryrn

this works with all runners? So take a slower runner like myself, I am lucky to dip in to the 8's on any run longer than 6 miles or s my Best olympic i averaged 8:45 for my run so I get blasted by all the runners out there. Run focused winter with all slower work will improve my already dismal times? I guess i am asking if i never run 7's in training how will lots of 9+ min miles convert to that during a race? I am frustrated with my running... my swim and my bike are both strong but even before this IM build up this year while i was just running my times still seem to suck.


Yes, it will work so long as you run more. Some people get confused by this theory because all they do is slow down their training runs and expect to get faster. There are two parts of the equation here. Time (aka volume) and intensity. Reducing your intensity allows you to run more volume, but if you don't run more volume, then you won't get any faster.

Shane mentioned using something like the BarryP running plan. This involves running 6x per week. Hence...more volume than your typical triathlete who may only run 2-4x per week.

2013-10-24 6:05 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
Originally posted by Tryrn

this works with all runners? So take a slower runner like myself, I am lucky to dip in to the 8's on any run longer than 6 miles or s my Best olympic i averaged 8:45 for my run so I get blasted by all the runners out there. Run focused winter with all slower work will improve my already dismal times? I guess i am asking if i never run 7's in training how will lots of 9+ min miles convert to that during a race? I am frustrated with my running... my swim and my bike are both strong but even before this IM build up this year while i was just running my times still seem to suck.


Yes it works for slower runners. Its not that you never run fast in training, just that MOST of your running is slower in order to build endurance and make the physiological adaptations you need. And that larger base supports the faster running.

I went from being an 11:00-minute runner to racing in the 7's for short races using this basic theory (about 8:00/mile for half-marathons, too). Run lots, mostly slow, some fast. Keep it simple.
2013-10-24 6:30 PM
in reply to: Tryrn


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Subject: RE: To Run Fast, You Need To Run Fast
Originally posted by Tryrn

this works with all runners? So take a slower runner like myself, I am lucky to dip in to the 8's on any run longer than 6 miles or s my Best olympic i averaged 8:45 for my run so I get blasted by all the runners out there. Run focused winter with all slower work will improve my already dismal times? I guess i am asking if i never run 7's in training how will lots of 9+ min miles convert to that during a race? I am frustrated with my running... my swim and my bike are both strong but even before this IM build up this year while i was just running my times still seem to suck.


FWIW - when I was a pure runner, I logged all my mileage with a garmin GPS watch.

My average pace per week was 8:30-9min/mile for 70miles per week. I did do speedwork in there, which was plenty fast, but the bulk of the miles were indeed run at conversational or slightly slower pace, and recovery days were run at closer to 10min/mile.

This translated to a 18:00 5k and a 3:11 marathon on a hilly course. Very consistently. What Shane's saying is well known to be true by good run coaches everywhere - in running, it's about volume, volume, volume, and only then, intensity.

A lot of AGers who like reading about pro runners and pro triathletes get impressed by how much speedwork the pros do, and decide they should be 'more like the pros.' They forget the fact that pros have either already put in the huge base miles, or are so genetically gifted they respond very well to low volume, and as well, for them, they're fighting for seconds on the hour for results and are thus very particular about speedwork since their base is usually maxxed out, whereas the typical AGer will gain gobs more time since they haven't maxxed their base.
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