Swim Fins and Kickboards (Page 2)

Seems to be a lot of consensus on use (or lack of use) of boards and fins from the experienced swimmers who have posted so far.  But I'm curious if we can extend this conversation to discuss use of drills and their quantity, or lack thereof, in a program for mid-pack triathlete swimmers.

This is the main argument I have heard from some coaches on why one would use some board and/or fins in their workout.  I've been trying fins a little bit recently (at the encouragement of some coaches) and they seem to have helped me a bit (hard to say for certain, of course) for that exact reason.  I don't really have an answer or strong opinion for the OP--and nowhere near the swim experience.  I will say that I think most swim tools can be helpful in the right situation.  But without some direction on their use, they can certainly become crutches which impede progress on the stroke.  I'd probably accept that it's best to use any of them 'too little' rather than 'too much'. 

Having read this thread............why does my kid's club team use kick boards, fins, paddles, and even drag chutes?  Granted, it's a small percentage of their overall workouts every week....but they drill each workout.  Are they more useful if you already have decent technique or what is the deal?  They send alot of kids to Jr. Nationals every year,  and a couple of their kids have Olympic trial cuts before age 16,  so it's not like they don't have a fast group of kids.......that have been built with that regimen.  One of the reasons I saw here was because they have too many kids for one coach and it's easier on the coach.  I haven't seen that.....this team gets a ton of instruction, including monthly underwater video, etc.

I'm asking.....I could write what I know about swim training on a matchbook cover.

In reading all the posts, I want to clarify my original post.  When I said that swim fins have no place in a workout and kickboards have marginal use at best, I was thinking advanced swimmers.  Sorry, I should have make that more clear.  I will define advanced swimmer as a swimmer that can easily complete a 4-5,000 yard/meter workout at least 3-4 times a week.  I will further make the assumption that the swimmer that can complete workouts at that level will likely have reasonable stroke mechanics.  I was not referring to the novice or beginning swimmer.  For the novice, or for the absolute beginner, I say whatever works.

Erik and Tim, both of you have excellent counter points.  I am wondering if your opinion may change a bit if we are talking about an advanced swimmer?

Since I have never seen your kid's team, I am going to speculate a little bit.

Back when I was swimming, our team was divided into 4 training teams.  12 and under, 13-17, seniors, and national.  Obviously there was a significant difference in experience and expertise as you moved though the various training teams.  The 12 and under team often used kickboards, during workouts.  We didn't have swim fins back in those days, in fact, when I first started swimming, we didn't even have goggles.  The 13-17 team used kickboards, although much less frequently, as well as paddles and pull bands.  The senior team rarely used kickboards, used paddles and pull bands on a fairly regular basis.  The national team used kickboards MAYBE once a month, and used paddles/pull bands at the beginning of the short or long course season or during taper before the respective National Championships.

The younger, newer kids used the training aids frequently while the older and/or more experienced swimmers used the training aids much less.  On your kids team, there may be a lot of training aids because there is a wide range of experience in the pool at any given workout.  Just throwing that out there.  I know that many of the larger teams today are sub-divided in a similar way to the team that I was on back in the day, however, as I said, I don't know how your kids team is setup nor do I know what your kid's coaches training philosophy is.  For the record, I am not saying that using those aids is necessarily wrong.  My concern is that the use of those aids without proper guidance can easily lead to degradation of stroke mechanics.

Neil,

I am probably not the person to ask about drills.  Back when I was swimming, we didn't do drills per se.  Occasionally we would use paddles and pull bands, but that was RARE.  We swam, lap upon endless lap.  When we were done, we swam some more.  I was fortunate to swim under a gentleman who is arguably one of the greatest swimming coaches that has ever walked a pool deck.  He was an absolute stickler for PERFECT stroke mechanics and had a special talent for imparting his knowledge to those of us privileged enough to call him our coach.

I know in the years since I retired there has been a movement towards an increasing number of drills; another one of the things I don't completely understand.  Perhaps some of the other active coaches here would be better at answering the question.  My personal opinion, for what it is worth, you need to put in the yards, plain and simple.

I'm still in close contact with my first swim coach from mumblemumble years ago. Most of the time we live in the same city, and me and my siblings are also still really close to his kids (one of whom lives here too).

A bunch of stuff from "back in the day" has changed, been replaced by (a variety of) different training methods/approaches/etc. that are more effective. Some stuff has been demonstrated to be downright harmful and abandoned. A lot more distinction has been placed between sprinting and distance swimming especially now with open water swimming and triathlon becoming more popular.

That said, there's a bunch of stuff that, way back then, either was also common practice or a few key individuals really advocated it, that has stood the test of time. Sounds like your coach was one of those guys with a lot of those fundamentals.

1. I want to know more

2. I'm mulling over in my mind where kickboards and fins (and what type and how, perhaps) fit into this continuum. More from Sheila Taormina's perspective later and I'll come back with what some SwimSmooth coaches have to say about it.

Great....now you've got me wanting to ask the coach about it...something I NEVER do because I leave the swim coaching to the swim coach....but now I'm curious.  

My kid's team is set up basically like you said, except tat they have a National Prep squad in addition to a National squad.  The National kids all have AAA and AAAA times and, like I said, a couple of kids with Olympic trial cuts.  My son swims on the National prep squad which consists of kids with AA times and a few AAA times.  Those groups are coached by a former world record holder from the 80's who was on the Olympic team that didn't go to Moscow because of the boycott. He has built this team from scratch 10 years ago to a top tier club....and was hired away from another club that he built the same way.

Check this out......tonight both groups swam together.  Out of the 6500 yard workout, 3500 were with fins, paddles, or kick boards......I counted.  I asked my son about it and he said, "we're in a speed phase".....but I'm pretty sure he's just making crap up because he knows I don't have a clue.....but those kids were swimming some smoking fast sets when they had fins on.  Like you said, these kids are swimming 7-9 sessions per week and usually anywhere from 40-50,000 yards per week. Like I said before, I see them use "toys" every practice that I watch.....but tonight, ironically, more than half the workout was with fins, boards, or paddles.

Now I've got to know what their theory is compared to yours.

Now that makes sense to me.  Alot of those kids were hitting the wall in :45 - :48 seconds for 100 in freestlye and :48 - :52 for butterfly using fins.  The intervals were 1:00 for freestlye and 1:05 fot butterfly.  They were also doing underwater butterfly kicks the length of the pool....and looked like dolphins.  I have never seen them using fins for long distance work....it's all speed work.