Coming back into running... run volume?

2013-11-15 5:30 AM

Regular

1893

Las Vegas, NV

Subject: Coming back into running... run volume?

Did an Ironman in June, got sick, had to take time off working out, restarted a few weeks ago with group cardio at the gym, started doing the treadmill with half a mile runs daily, and now I'm going five miles at a time.

What would you suggest I stop at weekly-wise?

I decided to do a marathon 4/7 so when I come back from a trip I'll start training, 15 weeks starting 12/16.

Then just increase by 10%? I.e. if I start at 20 miles per week go 22, 24, 26.5, etc.?

I'd rather all my runs be LSD. Even if it's like 5 5 10. I'm just running for fun and my goal for the marathon is to go and have a good time and not get injured.

Once I come up with a starting weekly mileage, how should it be apportioned? I think seven miles is about my max right now, I haven't really tried, but that'd be a good starting point for my long runs. I did 3 miles with a friend and she pushed me to 10:30. I did 10:45 on my own for 3 miles. I can do 10:00 with a bit of an effort, 11:00 semi-comfortably, and I can run a long time at 12:00.

Thanks! All I care about is two things: Finishing the marathon on 4/7 and not suffering injuries while training or the event. Everything else is gravy.

No coach. I hike once a week and take spin and other cardio classes throughout week and BodyPump (group strength training) three times a week. If I bike it'd be now and then just for fun. I don't want to structure my life around my training, I want to structure my training around my life. I don't even want to train, I just want to run :D Since my only real goal is to run a lot without being injured, I think this is a doable goal.

Edit: Thought of something else: Do hiking miles count as weekly mileage?

Edited by GatorDeb 2013-11-15 5:51 AM

gsmacleod

2013-11-15 6:44 AM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Are you able to run more than 3x/week? If so I would recommend that you follow your plan of keeping everything easy but spread your volume out over more runs. If you are currently able to do 15mpw, then I would consider something like this:

4x/week - 3 4 3 5

5x/week - 2 3 2 3 5

6x/week - 1.5 2 3 1.5 2 5

Keep all runs conversational and build conservatively (maximum 10% not a a goal of 10%). Let the pace be whatever it needs to be so that it is easy and you finish knowing you could have easily kept running and that you could do the entire workout again tomorrow.

Shane

My Training Log My Race Log

Hot Runner

2013-11-15 6:49 AM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Master

8247

Eugene, Oregon

Bronze member

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Congrats on getting back to running--never a bad thing. Been at it for almost 35 years now and never kicked the habit!

It depends on how many days a week you're planning on running but 5-6 would be good for a marathon. The Barry P plan assumes you're running six days a week. You divide your mileage up into three shorter runs, two medium runs that are 2X the shorter runs, and one long run that's 3X the shorter runs. So , algebra wise (r=short run miles), it's (3 X r) + (2 X 2r) and (3r). The easiest way to do it is divide your weekly mileage by 10. (Ex. 20 miles a week divided by 10 = 2.) So that's three runs of 2 miles each, two runs of four miles each, and one run of six miles each.

10% increase a week is reasonable assuming your body is responding well and you're not also building other training at the same time. If you're struggling, repeat two weeks at the same mileage. I'd try to gradually increase both total mileage and the miles for the long run. I normally spend two weeks at each long run distance before building, building up in 10-15 minute increments. I would focus on developing endurance and not worry about speedwork, especially since you want this to be fun! At most, maybe work in some "fartlek", running games like running faster for X minutes/ to the next light pole, etc.

As for hiking, no, it doesn't count as run mileage. But I think if you're fairly new to marathoning, day-length hikes can definitely help build muscular endurance and, if nothing else, toughen up your feet. I used to be on a hiking club that did some ultra-distance day hikes (20-30 miles), and I felt they were harder than a 20 mile training run or casual "fun run" marathon done just to finish.

Hope this is useful.

2013-11-15 7:37 AM

in reply to: 0

Regular

1893

Las Vegas, NV

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

I can run every day.

Here's the main reason I posted this thread. This is the first week I came back into running. I ran 5 miles Monday then hiked 5 miles (3.5 hours of rocky terrain), then took Tuesday off (which is going to be my off day for the week, since I plan to hike every Monday for a few hours), then ran 5 miles Wednesday, then I ran 3 miles to the gym yesterday, took a one hour cardio class, then ran back home, for a total of six miles. I'm going to a six mile Meetup on Saturday then I was sitting at work a few hours ago salivating about running five miles today, and it hit me that if I did that that would put me at 27 miles for the week and I went, whoa, Nelly, that's probably not healthy lol So I should probably skip my run today? I feel fine. Do I have to skip the one tomorrow? I'm at 16 miles already of running for the week. And I was planning to run on Sunday too. I enjoy running, and I can do five miles easy in an hour, so that's why I picked that number. I just pretty much started accumulating the miles so quickly this week they caught me by surprise lol

I've been hiking twice now and it's ridiculously fun, we have a Monday hiking group.

If I go by what I feel I would have ran 32 miles my first week, so I'm looking for someone to put a limit :D I take about 3-5 spin classes per week, I'm at 4 already for this week. Plus some cardio.

I want to do the marathon on April 12 because it's an inaugural marathon in my hometown but I don't plan to pay for it until April and I have nothing against making it a Half Marathon if I can't get there with enough volume for the whole thing, but if I can, then let's go for it.

I don't want to train. I want to build my body up to be able to drop in and do a marathon. I don't want the rigidity. If on a Wednesday someone says hey! let's go Kayaking! then I can go Yeah, let's! and skip the run and just run Thursday. I want flexibility, and still be able to do other activities like snowshoeing, hiking, etc.

Edited by GatorDeb 2013-11-15 7:40 AM

gsmacleod

2013-11-15 7:41 AM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Originally posted by GatorDeb

I don't want to train. I want to build my body up to be able to drop in and do a marathon. I don't want the rigidity. If on a Wednesday someone says hey! let's go Kayaking! then I can go Yeah, let's! and skip the run and just run Thursday. I want flexibility, and still be able to do other activities like snowshoeing, hiking, etc.

So you want a plan that isn't a plan?

Shane

2013-11-15 7:45 AM

in reply to: 0

Regular

1893

Las Vegas, NV

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Yes and no. I love running so much I can go out and run every day, but let's say in those 15 weeks one day I don't run, it's not the end of the world.

I.e. I want to be in marathon shape year-round, so I just want to be physically fit. So I want a plan but I fully expect to skip a run some days to go do something else, i.e. Kayaking. My problem is not going to be running too little, anyway, I have more of a problem staying in bed resting.

And I guess my only point of reference in "training" is that of a Half and Full Ironman, so I've never trained for a marathon, so who knows, maybe it won't feel like training. I want to take a break mostly from not being able to do fun stuff like a 50 mile charity ride because I had to "train," not being to go to Zumba because I had to "train," etc.

Edited by GatorDeb 2013-11-15 7:47 AM

dmiller5

2013-11-15 8:28 AM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Extreme Veteran

3025

Maryland

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Originally posted by GatorDeb Yes and no. I love running so much I can go out and run every day, but let's say in those 15 weeks one day I don't run, it's not the end of the world. I.e. I want to be in marathon shape year-round, so I just want to be physically fit. So I want a plan but I fully expect to skip a run some days to go do something else, i.e. Kayaking. My problem is not going to be running too little, anyway, I have more of a problem staying in bed resting. And I guess my only point of reference in "training" is that of a Half and Full Ironman, so I've never trained for a marathon, so who knows, maybe it won't feel like training. I want to take a break mostly from not being able to do fun stuff like a 50 mile charity ride because I had to "train," not being to go to Zumba because I had to "train," etc.

Being in "marathon shape" year round is a recipe for injury. You need periods of easier training and periods of rest so your body can recuperate.

If you just love to run....just go run. If you want to do a long distance race, then train and prepare properly for that race.

2013-11-15 8:30 AM

in reply to: dmiller5

Regular

1893

Las Vegas, NV

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

I mostly want the flexibility of running AND doing other things and not have to spend 30 hours a week training (preparing long ride nutrition, driving, setting up, training, cleaning up). I think I'll be pleasantly surprised how much easier volume-wise it's training for a marathon than a full Ironman.

So my main question right now is:

This is week 1 for me. My mind wants to run 32 miles this week. My body hasn't complained yet. I have 16 miles so far. What should I cap my first week at? I spent a couple of weeks running half a mile every day and that's pretty much it.

dmiller5

2013-11-15 8:32 AM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Extreme Veteran

3025

Maryland

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Originally posted by GatorDeb I mostly want the flexibility of running AND doing other things and not have to spend 30 hours a week training (preparing long ride nutrition, driving, setting up, training, cleaning up). I think I'll be pleasantly surprised how much easier volume-wise it's training for a marathon than a full Ironman. So my main question right now is: This is week 1 for me. My mind wants to run 32 miles this week. My body hasn't complained yet. I have 16 miles so far. What should I cap my first week at? I spent a couple of weeks running half a mile every day and that's pretty much it.

What has your mileage been the last few months, what was your mileage before the ironman, and how long ago was the ironman?

2013-11-15 8:34 AM

in reply to: dmiller5

Regular

1893

Las Vegas, NV

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

I was doing around 20 miles per week for the Ironman. 6/23/13. Since then I've ran maybe 15 miles before this week, if that, total. I got sick pretty much right after and couldn't work out for months. Then when I came back I went to group cardio instead. Last two weeks I did half a mile six days a week. This week 5 Monday, 5 Wednesday, 6 yesterday.

orphious

2013-11-15 8:47 AM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Veteran

523

East Greenbush

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Cap it at 20 and then start the BarryP program next week at 20 miles. You run 6 days a week. 3 short, 2 medium and 1 long.

Your short run = weekly mileage/10 = 2 miles
Your Medium run is twice your short run = 4 miles
Your long run is 3 x your short = 6 miles

If after completely this week with out getting exhausted at any point or soar bump your weekly miles up by no more than 10%. Then do the same calculation as above for the week. Run slow. The goal of the program is to allow you to increase your run volume slowly and safely. Which as benefit the increased volume will help you get faster.

2013-11-15 8:50 AM

in reply to: orphious

Regular

1893

Las Vegas, NV

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Originally posted by orphious

Cap it at 20 and then start the BarryP program next week at 20 miles. You run 6 days a week. 3 short, 2 medium and 1 long.

Your short run = weekly mileage/10 = 2 miles
Your Medium run is twice your short run = 4 miles
Your long run is 3 x your short = 6 miles

If after completely this week with out getting exhausted at any point or soar bump your weekly miles up by no more than 10%. Then do the same calculation as above for the week. Run slow. The goal of the program is to allow you to increase your run volume slowly and safely. Which as benefit the increased volume will help you get faster.

I'm at 16 right now and have a 5.8X mile meetup tomorrow so I will skip today and sunday and call it a week

If I start that on Dec 16th (going on a trip in two weeks), will that get me ready for a marathon in 15 weeks?

ratherbeswimming

2013-11-15 8:52 AM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Pro

6191

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Originally posted by GatorDeb

Originally posted by orphious Cap it at 20 and then start the BarryP program next week at 20 miles. You run 6 days a week. 3 short, 2 medium and 1 long. Your short run = weekly mileage/10 = 2 miles Your Medium run is twice your short run = 4 miles Your long run is 3 x your short = 6 miles If after completely this week with out getting exhausted at any point or soar bump your weekly miles up by no more than 10%. Then do the same calculation as above for the week. Run slow. The goal of the program is to allow you to increase your run volume slowly and safely. Which as benefit the increased volume will help you get faster.

I'm at 16 right now and have a 5.8X mile meetup tomorrow so I will skip today and sunday and call it a week

If I start that on Dec 16th (going on a trip in two weeks), will that get me ready for a marathon in 15 weeks?

Are you planning on running between now and your trip?

Is there a reason you can't run on your trip?

2013-11-15 8:56 AM

in reply to: ratherbeswimming

Regular

1893

Las Vegas, NV

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by GatorDeb

Originally posted by orphious Cap it at 20 and then start the BarryP program next week at 20 miles. You run 6 days a week. 3 short, 2 medium and 1 long. Your short run = weekly mileage/10 = 2 miles Your Medium run is twice your short run = 4 miles Your long run is 3 x your short = 6 miles If after completely this week with out getting exhausted at any point or soar bump your weekly miles up by no more than 10%. Then do the same calculation as above for the week. Run slow. The goal of the program is to allow you to increase your run volume slowly and safely. Which as benefit the increased volume will help you get faster.

I'm at 16 right now and have a 5.8X mile meetup tomorrow so I will skip today and sunday and call it a week

If I start that on Dec 16th (going on a trip in two weeks), will that get me ready for a marathon in 15 weeks?

Are you planning on running between now and your trip?

Is there a reason you can't run on your trip?

Yep, I will run next week and then Mon-Thu of the week after, then leave for the trip Friday. Come back Tue 11th and can run Wed-Sun and THEN the 15 weeks start so actually like 18 weeks, I will only miss 1 week really (and well I ran this week so 19 weeks).

And as to the second question... because we're paying a lot of money to go on a cruise to Hawaii and I refuse to work out :D I have a bike ride tour, a hike, a kayak scuba diving trip and two zip line trips scheduled there, and we'll be sightseeing.

gsmacleod

2013-11-15 9:18 AM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Champion

9407

Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

If you were doing 20 during your IM training and are coming off an injury, then I would cap it at no more than 15 and build conservatively. If you love to run and just want to be in good running shape, then first focus on running often and then a gradual build to decrease the chances that you end up injured again.

Despite the fact that your body hasn't protested yet, I would err on the caution in your return to running.

Shnae

dmiller5

2013-11-15 9:25 AM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Extreme Veteran

3025

Maryland

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Originally posted by GatorDeb

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by GatorDeb

Originally posted by orphious Cap it at 20 and then start the BarryP program next week at 20 miles. You run 6 days a week. 3 short, 2 medium and 1 long. Your short run = weekly mileage/10 = 2 miles Your Medium run is twice your short run = 4 miles Your long run is 3 x your short = 6 miles If after completely this week with out getting exhausted at any point or soar bump your weekly miles up by no more than 10%. Then do the same calculation as above for the week. Run slow. The goal of the program is to allow you to increase your run volume slowly and safely. Which as benefit the increased volume will help you get faster.

I'm at 16 right now and have a 5.8X mile meetup tomorrow so I will skip today and sunday and call it a week

If I start that on Dec 16th (going on a trip in two weeks), will that get me ready for a marathon in 15 weeks?

Are you planning on running between now and your trip?

Is there a reason you can't run on your trip?

Yep, I will run next week and then Mon-Thu of the week after, then leave for the trip Friday. Come back Tue 11th and can run Wed-Sun and THEN the 15 weeks start so actually like 18 weeks, I will only miss 1 week really (and well I ran this week so 19 weeks). And as to the second question... because we're paying a lot of money to go on a cruise to Hawaii and I refuse to work out :D I have a bike ride tour, a hike, a kayak scuba diving trip and two zip line trips scheduled there, and we'll be sightseeing.

Just a question, if you love running so much, why do you refuse to do it on your vacation? Personally some of the coolest things I've seen on vacations have been when I went on a little run to somewhere I otherwise wouldn't have visited.

I also wouldn't try to just pick up where you left off with the volume before the IM (as Shane said). Start conservatively and build slowly. You have plenty of time before that race.

2013-11-15 9:30 AM

in reply to: gsmacleod

Not a Coach

11473

Media, PA

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Originally posted by gsmacleod If you were doing 20 during your IM training and are coming off an injury, then I would cap it at no more than 15 and build conservatively. If you love to run and just want to be in good running shape, then first focus on running often and then a gradual build to decrease the chances that you end up injured again. Despite the fact that your body hasn't protested yet, I would err on the caution in your return to running. Shnae

This.

Use Shane's original breakdown (6x/week - 1.5 2 3 1.5 2 5) and build gradually from there (10% MAXIMUM--you should often be below a 10% increase per week). I think running a maraton in 15 weeks is not a very good idea for someone who hasn't run in 4 mos. and who's main goal is to be physically fit and remain uninjured.

KathyG

2013-11-15 11:04 AM

in reply to: JohnnyKay

Champion

19812

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

I'm in agreement with Shane and JK.

Even though you feel good now, you are pushing it with not consistent run training since your IM and not very much prior to IM due to an injury.

Patience and built into it.

Pick your frequency and diivide up your volume around that many days. 15 miles per week would be starting point I would suggest.

Running for fun and fitness with a race here and there can be awesome but don't start off to fast/far so quickly which may feel great this week but may not in a few weeks or months.

2013-11-15 2:14 PM

in reply to: 0

Regular

1893

Las Vegas, NV

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

I got two for 15 and one for 20, so I guess I don't get to run until Monday :
I didn't actually plan on running any specific distance, I just went for runs and before I knew it I was on my way to 32 miles my first week.

I'll sign up in April for the race so I'll just sign up for whichever distance I'm ready, I'm not sweating it.

I'm going with my 74-year-old mom so I don't want to do something like running by myself, I'd rather be walking next to her, if I was by myself I'd be all for it, but it's about spending time with her.

I didn't get physically injured. I suffer from dizziness issues for years now but most of the time it's a "baseline" dizzy where I feel it but it doesn't affect anything I do. I think the Ironman lowered my immune system and it's common to get sick after one so I just happened to pick up a sinus infection. The first couple of weeks it was just a sinus infection then it went to my ears and that's when it all went to crap. When it went to my ears it messed up with my balance system and gave me the worst dizziness flareup I've ever had, I couldn't bike, run, or even swim without extreme nausea and dizziness, I couldn't go fast (or slow) and I had to stop all physical activity.

I've had two bad flareups and one minor one (including this last one) since it started in August 2010 and I actually learned a lot with this past one I know that moving even if it feels horrible once I get into the movement it actually in the long run makes it better. It's funny because I went to an amusement park by chance and I went to the rides and the first ride I went, whoa, this feels horrible, let's do it again! And I turned my head this way and that way and went on this ride and that ride and for two hours was tossed and turned violently and shaken from side to side and after a couple of months of being dizzy where I couldn't even walk without extreme difficulty, dizziness, and nausea, the flareup was gone 95% and I was pretty much back to "baseline" At one particular time I was 100000% I was about to pass out but didn't

Next time I get a dizziness flareup I'm going to Six Flags lol But it did teach me a lot about movement and I'm sure if I ever have a flareup again I know how to "get rid" of it now.

So it's nothing that it's going to influence my running, i.e. as opposed to having had an injury.

Edited by GatorDeb 2013-11-15 2:17 PM

2013-11-15 2:24 PM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Not a Coach

11473

Media, PA

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

It doesn't matter that your injury wasn't physical. What matters is you haven't been running much so your chance of physical injury due to running is high. If you want to stay uninjured, physically, best to take it conservative with running. Run often, but start with very modest distances and keep it easy. Don't wait until Monday to run again, but no more 5-6 mile runs for a few days. Use the extra time for more hiking, or whatever else you like, if you want some more aerobic exercise than you can (safely) get from running to begin.

2013-11-15 2:32 PM

in reply to: 0

Regular

1893

Las Vegas, NV

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

I'm done with swimming for now, so I'll drop in for some classes at the gym. Sunday I'm set up with a BodyPump and a spin so I'll just see what cardio they're offering tomorrow. Then on to the plan next week. So since I did 16 this week I can go to 17.5 next week. Into 10 that's 1.75. So if I got this right....

1.75
1.75
3.5
3.5
7 (hey, perfect, what I guessed my long run to be at!)

So should it be short, med, short, med, long, or how it's mixed together doesn't matter?

1.75 miles? That's a tease lol

Edited by GatorDeb 2013-11-15 2:34 PM

2013-11-15 2:37 PM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Not a Coach

11473

Media, PA

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Originally posted by GatorDeb I'm done with swimming for now, so I'll drop in for some classes at the gym. Sunday I'm set up with a BodyPump and a spin so I'll just see what cardio they're offering tomorrow. Then on to the plan next week. So since I did 16 this week I can go to 17.5 next week. Into 10 that's 1.75. So if I got this right.... 1.75 1.75 3.5 3.5 7 (hey, perfect, what I guessed my long run to be at!) So should it be short, med, short, med, long, or how it's mixed together doesn't matter? 1.75 miles? That's a tease lol

I would stay at 15 for 2-3 weeks. You have not been running at all for several months. If it feels ridiculously easy, you are doing it correctly.

The order of the runs is not critical, but you certainly don't want to consistently 'cram' the 3 longest runs into 3 consecutive days and then only have short & rest days for the next 4. Mix them up.

2013-11-15 2:58 PM

in reply to: JohnnyKay

Regular

1893

Las Vegas, NV

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Can I just say that you all made my OCD very happy lol

1.5
1.5
3
3
6

:D

Very overwhelmed at all the BarryP links, I will take a couple of weeks and slowly get through it all.

2013-11-21 5:47 AM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Regular

1893

Las Vegas, NV

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

I only get to run 1.5 miles today -annoyed-

That's like giving a lollipop to a toddler and only allowing them one lick.

And I have to complain here because I don't think the general population will respond the same to whining about only being able to run 1.5 miles.

Ran 3 yesterday, 1.5 today, 1.5 tomorrow, 6 Sat (Turkey Trot 10K), then 3 Sunday.

2013-11-21 9:14 AM

in reply to: GatorDeb

Not a Coach

11473

Media, PA

Subject: RE: Coming back into running... run volume?

Good work. Go for a hike after the run.