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2013-11-26 9:42 AM


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Subject: Computrainer or Power Meter?

I've decided to train with power this year, but what should I get, a Computrainer or a Power Meter?

I live in a pretty congested state (New Jersey). My first season, I trained outdoors probably 90% of the time. Last season, maybe 50% tops. This season, I'll probably be indoors 90% of the time. I've basically been scared off the roads. In my first year I almost broadsided a car that decided to pass me and make a right turn when I was going about 30-35 mph downhill. Last season I got ran off the road by a truck, I wasn't going that fast and managed to stop in the dirt, but still... That and the stories I hear from local cyclists, and what I read online, I've decided that I will do the far majority of my cycling indoors.

I have some pros and cons below but I had some questions first:

How much of a hassle is it to set up the bike and take it off as needed (Computrainer)?
Since you can use trainerroad with a powermeter, does that "close the gap" on the entertainment factor?
Who has found it useful to ride a given course on a Computrainer when training for it?
If I go powermeter, which one should I get?
I have a cheap trainer (nashbar), if I go powermeter, should I get a different one, which one?
Is reliability of the data from one to the other an issue?
What is their respective durability?
How useful is "SpinScan"?

Is there anything else I am not considering? Assume a 2k budget for either setup. And assuming I can only have one (this season at least!!), what should I do? I realize there has been some input on some of these questions on previous threads, but all input old or new on any or all questions is appreciated. Please help.

From what I've gathered:

Computrainer:

Pros:

Interesting and entertaining interface
Can pre-program intervals and other workouts
Can ride simulated courses

Cons:

Can't be used outside
Hassle to set up

Powermeter:

Pros:

Can be used outside and for racing

Cons:

Not as entertaining
Less features



2013-11-26 9:57 AM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
I can't speak to the power meter, but I can tell you that I really like the computrainer. It's not that much of a hassle to set-up. We have the mutli-rider setup. Sometimes my partner uses a course and I just use the watts option with the on-board computer (I just disconnect the cord from the PC). With the computrainer, you have the option to add a drag factor which can definitely make the rides more challenging.

Plus, there's the added feature of being able to track all your workouts for power, speed, calories, spin factor, etc. That's a huge benefit to see how your progressing.

As for switching out the bike, it's not that big of a deal....just get a 2nd trainer tire/wheel. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, just something so you can easily swap when you want to be outside.

Personally, I don't find the computrainer to be a hassle or cumbersome. But living in the MW, we spend a good portion of the year on it. So maybe I've gotten used to it's little nuances.

Cyndi



2013-11-26 10:12 AM
in reply to: cynner

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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

get a powermeter. You can use it indoors, and collect data in your outdoor rides and races. computrainer I believe is limited to indoors.

2013-11-26 10:13 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

I have both and for sure PM is better and more all around tool.

 

2013-11-26 10:16 AM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
Nowadays, I think there is a stronger argument to be made for Power Meter. I've used both. Erg mode is cool on a computrainer for sure (I've done the courses you mention and I don't find it really useful to be honest...when you ride a bike, you control your own output so who cares what the route is really).

With setups like trainer road synching to sufferfest and other workouts I'd say the entertainment gap has definitely closed enough to make it harder justifying computrainer...having your target watts up and controlling what cadence you want to work on etc....I just personally wouldn't go the computrainer route.

spinscan...blah blah blah...pedal your bike. That is my assessment.

You have a lot of questions there. First, solve the higher level questions on what route your going to go and then you can navigate the rest. There are a lot more choices now and the cost has come down quite a bit the past couple years.
2013-11-26 10:51 AM
in reply to: #4904779

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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
I have both and if I wS pressed to pick one, it would be a PM. That being said, the CT is an amazing winter training tool!


2013-11-26 12:00 PM
in reply to: audiojan

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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

Originally posted by audiojan I have both and if I wS pressed to pick one, it would be a PM. That being said, the CT is an amazing winter training tool!

This

2013-11-26 12:03 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
I have both and I love both. If I had to give one up it would be the CT

Originally posted by ImSore
How much of a hassle is it to set up the bike and take it off as needed (Computrainer)?

None at all. Worst part is putting trainer tire on if you do that. If you plan to do a lot of trainer riding, to be considered

Originally posted by ImSore
Since you can use trainerroad with a powermeter, does that "close the gap" on the entertainment factor?

Closes the gap a lot. But there are other really cool apps other than Trainerroad. There are at least 4

Originally posted by ImSore
Who has found it useful to ride a given course on a Computrainer when training for it?

Not really (for me). Speeds are off.

Originally posted by ImSore
If I go powermeter, which one should I get?

That is a long discussion :-). I prefer crank based

Originally posted by ImSore
I have a cheap trainer (nashbar), if I go powermeter, should I get a different one, which one?

Never tried it so no opinion

Originally posted by ImSore
Is reliability of the data from one to the other an issue?

There is some debate on some of the newer models, but it may be noise

Originally posted by ImSore
What is their respective durability?

Powertaps, Quarqs and SRM are good. Some of the newer ones don't have the history yet

Originally posted by ImSore
How useful is "SpinScan"?


People "in the know" seem to say it's not. But it does provide entertainment for about 12 minutes.

Originally posted by ImSore
Computrainer:
Pros:


Can do some interesting tests in erg mode, but nothing earth shattering
Can force you to execute intervals properly
Can put the CT in erg mode (say 75% threshold) and watch a movie without having to ever think about what you are doing. Kind of like cruise control

For $2k you can probably get a decent PM + a Kickr which is close to a CT, some would say better but I wouldn't :-)

Originally posted by ImSore
Powermeter:
Pros:


A accurate PM can be used for aero testing

Edited by marcag 2013-11-26 12:11 PM
2013-11-26 12:05 PM
in reply to: marcag

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
Power Meter.

I had both for about 3 weeks, sold the CT.
2013-11-26 12:50 PM
in reply to: ImSore


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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

I use a Powertap on a Cycleops Fluid2 Trainer.

 

I've been running a Gatorskin tire on the back for over half a year now. Rode more outdoors early on, now mostly indoors, but even with all this indoor riding, there's no signs of significant wear/damage to the Gatorskin to the tire from the trainer. I've been using the same setup indoors/outdoors - no tire or wheel swaps needed. Just run the Gatorskin - it'll do fine both indoors and out.

2013-11-26 12:50 PM
in reply to: ImSore


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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

I use a Powertap on a Cycleops Fluid2 Trainer.

 

I've been running a Gatorskin tire on the back for over half a year now. Rode more outdoors early on, now mostly indoors, but even with all this indoor riding, there's no signs of significant wear/damage to the Gatorskin to the tire from the trainer. I've been using the same setup indoors/outdoors - no tire or wheel swaps needed. Just run the Gatorskin - it'll do fine both indoors and out.



2013-11-26 12:54 PM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
Originally posted by yazmaster

I use a Powertap on a Cycleops Fluid2 Trainer.

 

I've been running a Gatorskin tire on the back for over half a year now. Rode more outdoors early on, now mostly indoors, but even with all this indoor riding, there's no signs of significant wear/damage to the Gatorskin to the tire from the trainer. I've been using the same setup indoors/outdoors - no tire or wheel swaps needed. Just run the Gatorskin - it'll do fine both indoors and out.




What do you race with ?
2013-11-26 1:10 PM
in reply to: marcag


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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by yazmaster

I use a Powertap on a Cycleops Fluid2 Trainer.

 

I've been running a Gatorskin tire on the back for over half a year now. Rode more outdoors early on, now mostly indoors, but even with all this indoor riding, there's no signs of significant wear/damage to the Gatorskin to the tire from the trainer. I've been using the same setup indoors/outdoors - no tire or wheel swaps needed. Just run the Gatorskin - it'll do fine both indoors and out.

What do you race with ?

 

I swap out the Gatorskin for a Rubino Pro or Conti 4000 on race day. But I put the Gatorskin right back on after that. 

2013-11-26 1:14 PM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

I'd go power metere as well.

Online trainer software is the big new thing these days.  Lots of people trying to enter the market and are developing some very cool applications.  Also with the proliferation of GoPro videos with matching GPS files it's much easier to get courses.

Computrainer's existing software platform is way behind the game.  It may be comparable for the time being, but I anticipate a lot of new features, options, and flexibility within the next year or two.  Virtual power has been established and adopted...there is no longer a reason to buy a power meter that can't be used on the road.

2013-11-26 1:57 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
Originally posted by Jason N
  • there is no longer a reason to buy a power meter that can't be used on the road.




  • That's easy to say when you live in Hawaii :-)

    In Seriousness there is value in an ERG based trainer. Lots of value. For people that spend 6 months in their basement, more than the guys in Hawaii.

    It's not a must by any means. It's 2nd to a PM. But it's a great training tool.

    It's expensive but if you are in this game fore the long haul and you will do the equivalent of 5 years on it (10 yearsx6months/year) you want the cadillac of trainers and I believe the CT provides this.

    I do believe the Kickr may prove to be a great trainer as well. But it's still new

    As far as Racermate being an outdated SW platform. It doesn't matter. Third parties are filling the SW void which is the way it's supposed to be. It's who will make the best hardware platform. Kickr has the wireless advantage. CT has the track record of reliability.

    Edited by marcag 2013-11-26 1:58 PM
    2013-11-26 2:40 PM
    in reply to: marcag

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    Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

    Originally posted by marcag
    Originally posted by Jason N .there is no longer a reason to buy a power meter that can't be used on the road.
    That's easy to say when you live in Hawaii :-) In Seriousness there is value in an ERG based trainer. Lots of value. For people that spend 6 months in their basement, more than the guys in Hawaii. It's not a must by any means. It's 2nd to a PM. But it's a great training tool. It's expensive but if you are in this game fore the long haul and you will do the equivalent of 5 years on it (10 yearsx6months/year) you want the cadillac of trainers and I believe the CT provides this. I do believe the Kickr may prove to be a great trainer as well. But it's still new As far as Racermate being an outdated SW platform. It doesn't matter. Third parties are filling the SW void which is the way it's supposed to be. It's who will make the best hardware platform. Kickr has the wireless advantage. CT has the track record of reliability.

    LOL...I suppose my perspective doesn't represent everyone...especially those in Canada. 

    That said, I'm not sure how much value ERG mode would give someone these days.  The new software being developed is being driven directly by power or virtual power.  Meaning the video speeds up or slows down based on how hard you pedal.  I know you are aware of this already...but wouldn't you say that sort of negates the need for ERG. 

    Previously, when videos or software was not linked to power, you could cruise through something like a spinerval or sufferfest workout where you couldn't do that in ERG mode.  But now if the video slows down if you're cruising, you're penalized for not putting in the effort.  Especially if you're racing against an online or AI character that starts to pull away because your power is dropping.



    2013-11-26 3:23 PM
    in reply to: 0

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    Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
    Originally posted by Jason N

    That said, I'm not sure how much value ERG mode would give someone these days.  The new software being developed is being driven directly by power or virtual power.  Meaning the video speeds up or slows down based on how hard you pedal.  I know you are aware of this already...but wouldn't you say that sort of negates the need for ERG. 

    Previously, when videos or software was not linked to power, you could cruise through something like a spinerval or sufferfest workout where you couldn't do that in ERG mode.  But now if the video slows down if you're cruising, you're penalized for not putting in the effort.  Especially if you're racing against an online or AI character that starts to pull away because your power is dropping.




    Ergvideo is the perfect example of great live video being used in Erg mode.
    They record a rider that does a course capturing power and video.
    Let's say he does it at an average 300watts, with high and lows in there.

    You say you want to do that course at 200 watts and it scales everything to 200 watts. The speed is always the same, the speed the original rider.

    A great video is the IMMT course from Ergvideo. I say "I want to ride this at a NP of 220w", press go and I will finish it having done 220w.

    I can do Sufferfest Angels and say I want to do it a 270w. It will do the highs and lows and I will end up at 270w bang on
    Tomorrow I can say "let's try 275" and it will guide me at 275
    Or I can tell it I want to ride in slope mode and then I am in control.

    What I love about Erg is I never have to look at the little yellow computer. I can close my eyes, pray (not that I am religious, I pray this will end soon), and listen to my music.

    Erg is a tool that is nice to use now and then.


    Note : I made up those power numbers. I don't ride Angels at 275

    Edited by marcag 2013-11-26 3:24 PM
    2013-11-26 3:29 PM
    in reply to: ImSore

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    Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
    Originally posted by ImSore


    I've decided to train with power this year, but what should I get, a Computrainer or a Power Meter?

    I live in a pretty congested state (New Jersey). My first season, I trained outdoors probably 90% of the time. Last season, maybe 50% tops. This season, I'll probably be indoors 90% of the time. I've basically been scared off the roads. In my first year I almost broadsided a car that decided to pass me and make a right turn when I was going about 30-35 mph downhill. Last season I got ran off the road by a truck, I wasn't going that fast and managed to stop in the dirt, but still... That and the stories I hear from local cyclists, and what I read online, I've decided that I will do the far majority of my cycling indoors.

    I have some pros and cons below but I had some questions first:

    How much of a hassle is it to set up the bike and take it off as needed (Computrainer)?
    Since you can use trainerroad with a powermeter, does that "close the gap" on the entertainment factor?
    Who has found it useful to ride a given course on a Computrainer when training for it?
    If I go powermeter, which one should I get?
    I have a cheap trainer (nashbar), if I go powermeter, should I get a different one, which one?
    Is reliability of the data from one to the other an issue?
    What is their respective durability?
    How useful is "SpinScan"?

    Is there anything else I am not considering? Assume a 2k budget for either setup. And assuming I can only have one (this season at least!!), what should I do? I realize there has been some input on some of these questions on previous threads, but all input old or new on any or all questions is appreciated. Please help.

    From what I've gathered:

    Computrainer:

    Pros:

    Interesting and entertaining interface
    Can pre-program intervals and other workouts
    Can ride simulated courses

    Cons:

    Can't be used outside
    Hassle to set up

    Powermeter:

    Pros:

    Can be used outside and for racing

    Cons:

    Not as entertaining
    Less features




    X10 on the outdoor(indoor) power meter it will be your best friend out there in "attacking the hills,slicing thru the wind and Long distance riding" .
    Its up to you if you want the crankbase,pedal base or hub base even the crank arm base. Dont think to much about it buy it please!!! its worth it.!!
    2013-11-26 5:13 PM
    in reply to: marcag

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    Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

    Originally posted by marcag
    Originally posted by Jason N

    That said, I'm not sure how much value ERG mode would give someone these days.  The new software being developed is being driven directly by power or virtual power.  Meaning the video speeds up or slows down based on how hard you pedal.  I know you are aware of this already...but wouldn't you say that sort of negates the need for ERG. 

    Previously, when videos or software was not linked to power, you could cruise through something like a spinerval or sufferfest workout where you couldn't do that in ERG mode.  But now if the video slows down if you're cruising, you're penalized for not putting in the effort.  Especially if you're racing against an online or AI character that starts to pull away because your power is dropping.

    Ergvideo is the perfect example of great live video being used in Erg mode. They record a rider that does a course capturing power and video. Let's say he does it at an average 300watts, with high and lows in there. You say you want to do that course at 200 watts and it scales everything to 200 watts. The speed is always the same, the speed the original rider. A great video is the IMMT course from Ergvideo. I say "I want to ride this at a NP of 220w", press go and I will finish it having done 220w. I can do Sufferfest Angels and say I want to do it a 270w. It will do the highs and lows and I will end up at 270w bang on Tomorrow I can say "let's try 275" and it will guide me at 275 Or I can tell it I want to ride in slope mode and then I am in control. What I love about Erg is I never have to look at the little yellow computer. I can close my eyes, pray (not that I am religious, I pray this will end soon), and listen to my music. Erg is a tool that is nice to use now and then. Note : I made up those power numbers. I don't ride Angels at 275

    The Tour 'd Giro software I tested out can do something similar.  You pick a course, and you can have up to 55 computer AI riders to compete against.  You can also invite human players to join in online.  You select the range of power you want the computer players to ride at and you can also select what part of the course you want to do.  So lets say you pick the IMMT course, but you only want to ride half of one loop (around 1:30 ride).  You can set that up, then set the computer to ride between 150 and 200 watts.  If you ride at 205 watts, you'll beat all the other computer competitors.  If you ride at 145 watts, you'll end up DFL.  If you ride at 175 watts, you end up MOP.  If your power goals are higher, you simply set the computer to say 250-275 watts instead of 150-200. 

    My point is simply that CT used to have a cornerstone on the "trainer experience."  Now there are so much other software or application choices that don't require a CT...but simply virtual or real power via an ANT+ stick.

    2013-11-26 8:14 PM
    in reply to: Jason N

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    Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
    I think with the new ANT+ wireless PT there is a virtual trainer (maybe the cycleops site) that allows you to simulate many of the courses - of course I'm the dork that has both but the PT can be used all season including during racing...

    I DO suggest you take a bike handling skills course I did and it helped SIGNIFICANTLY with my comfort on the road
    2013-11-26 9:56 PM
    in reply to: wwlani

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    Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

    Powermeter and a set of E-motion rollers. Plenty of resistance to do whatever workout you need including out of the saddle sprints. No need for a trainer tire either. When you go out on the road you just grab the bike off the rollers and go. Good training plan/TrainerRoad, powermeter, Netflix and a big fan or 2 and you are set. The E-motion rollers are easier to ride than standard rollers but still give you a true road feel.

    Prices are down on the G3 hub and there are some good deals out there. Get a G3 wheel built on a solid rim. Get a wheelcover for race day and a good front wheel and you are covered for training and racing.

     

     



    2013-11-26 10:05 PM
    in reply to: ImSore

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    Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

    For $2000 I'd get a Wahoo KICKR and a Stages Power Meter.  Then you got both.  The KICKR is a bazillion times better than a CT.

    2013-11-26 10:10 PM
    in reply to: ImSore

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    Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
    You could probably get a Wahoo Kickr (competitor to Computrainer) and a powermeter for not too much more then just the computrainer!

    If I had to pick one though, if your doing 90% of your riding indoor I personally would pick the Trainer. The power meter is nice, and something I absolutely recommend, but if your not training outdoors with it you can use the trainer with the added benefit of the controlled resistance.
    2013-11-26 10:12 PM
    in reply to: ImSore

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    Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?
    and now that I've been thinking....how about I sell you my wired PT hub (still works great) but I'd like to upgrade to wireless - would sell at reasonable rate then you get both and I'd get the wireless PT I'm yearning for? Message me if interested!
    2013-11-26 10:22 PM
    in reply to: wwlani

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    Subject: RE: Computrainer or Power Meter?

    I have a Quarq PM 50/34 in 170s I'm likely going to sell as well. PM me if you are interested. I have switched to 150s due to hip injury.

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