General Discussion Triathlon Talk » What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel Rss Feed  
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2013-11-30 4:00 PM

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Subject: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
During days when my swimming technique was very good but not perfect I took a few swimming lessons with different instructors.
Two of them told me that my technique was good, but I need to swim a lot to develop a feel for swimming. They did not seem to know why I could not swim faster. The third one helped me a lot, but he was very expensive and I cannot afford him.

What is the feel for swimming? Do you have the feel for swimming? How would you describe it?
I used to attend semi-coached swimming practices with my friends. Usually during the practice the instructor asked us to tread the water usually for a few minutes. One time something clicked , I could not just simply tread the water in one place I started moving/swimming.
I realized this feeling on the mid part of my feet. The water was resistant and my feet were moving it. The water was sort of tickling my feet.
Since then, during kicking drills I swim much faster. Did I discover the feel for kick? Should I feel the water resistance during the pull?



Edited by slonce5 2013-11-30 4:01 PM


2013-11-30 4:31 PM
in reply to: slonce5

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel

I always say you don't want to think about moving your arms through the water.  You want to think about anchoring your hand in the water and pulling your body past it.  It should almost feel like you're pulling and pushing against something solid.

 

2013-11-30 4:34 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel


I always say you don't want to think about moving your arms through the water.  You want to think about anchoring your hand in the water and pulling your body past it.  It should almost feel like you're pulling and pushing against something solid.

 




During the kick I feel the solid water. I call it the water resistance. I wonder why I do not feel it during the pull.
2013-11-30 4:34 PM
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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel



Edited by slonce5 2013-11-30 4:35 PM
2013-12-01 4:10 AM
in reply to: slonce5

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
Originally posted by slonce5



I always say you don't want to think about moving your arms through the water.  You want to think about anchoring your hand in the water and pulling your body past it.  It should almost feel like you're pulling and pushing against something solid.

 




During the kick I feel the solid water. I call it the water resistance. I wonder why I do not feel it during the pull.


You are possibly trying too hard...try slowing it down until you can feel the water thicken up like pudding.

Another possiblitly is that you don't have a good angle on the water. You want the surface of your palm & forearm to be pushing water towards your feet or the wall behind you.

Sometimes when you try too hard, the very strong lat muscles overpower the very small rotator cuff muscles and the forearm becomes parallel to the bottom of the pool...no surface area to create a solid push against.

So for most people slowing down the stroke so they can focus on orientation of the arm from elbow to fingertips as well as feel the water thicking up can really change the feling of the pull.

you want to find the same thing in the stroke that you found int he kick.
2013-12-01 6:45 AM
in reply to: slonce5

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
Echo everything that's already been said here, plus this; if you're crossing over, that is your arm breaks the center line from your nose to your belly button during the catch or pull, and if you're trying to engage the pull from your hand first, it's not gonna work right. The catch sensation is from your fingertip all the way to your elbow simultaneously. If it goes any further up than that, your arm isn't bent enough and you're pulling from your shoulder instead of your chest and back, and you'll trash your shoulders quickly. If it feels like your hand is slicing through the water, positioning and arm speed are the likely culprits.
Simply put, yes, you should feel the water resistance, but you should feel it on your entire body eventually. You can tell what is propulsive and what is not, it's a very strong sensation, and one of the reasons I love it so much!


2013-12-02 10:03 AM
in reply to: slonce5

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
Great book helped me with this issue: Swim Speed Secrets look on Amazon. Entire book about this issue.
2013-12-04 7:40 PM
in reply to: slonce5

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
Originally posted by slonce5
What is the feel for swimming? Do you have the feel for swimming? How would you describe it?

That is something that is very difficult to describe with words. I was a competitive swimmer for 10 years and I'm not sure I could explain how swimming feels to me. One thing I can tell you for certain: if you train with poor technique, you are doing more harm than good.

I work at a pool and I see TONS of people (even triathletes!) come in and spend a lot of time in the pool doing WAY more work than they have to. Like some of the other people on here have said, if you are exerting a lot of energy then you're probably doing something wrong. If you have poor technique when you train, you will form bad habits that will make your stroke less efficient and possibly even injure you.

One of the things I often tell people to do if they ask me for advice is to watch other people swim. Go on Youtube and watch videos of people swimming in the Olympics; if anyone is going to have a feel for swimming, it's them!

The closest thing I can give you to explaining that "feeling" is telling you to feel balanced in the water. Check out this video from the 2012 London Olympics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe3I8NkR5oQ&t=5m58s

Do you see how balanced he is in the water? Another key aspect is his turnover. He's got around a 3/4 catchup stroke going. When swimming the longer distances you'll definitely want to stretch out your stroke as much as you can.

Hope this helps, good luck!
2013-12-05 6:18 AM
in reply to: slonce5

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
Can't really describe how water feels, I sometimes feel that the water feels differently when I go to a different pool!

But you can do this to feel a difference:

Try swimming fist crawl, then normal, then with paddles. You should certainly feel a better grip in the water. You can also try turning your palm, slicing the water vs perpendicular shoveling the water. You want to search for this good grip in the water with every stroke.

BR
2013-12-05 9:46 AM
in reply to: slonce5

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel

You might try swimming with 'fists'.   Close your hands into fists and swim.  You will need to get your forearm down and keep your elbow up in order to get much 'pull' on the water.  It's a good way to practice keeping your elbows high and getting your forearm down quickly at the catch.  Try to replicate that when you open your fists ind increase the size of your 'paddle'.

2013-12-05 10:27 AM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
To me, the feel of pulling is just like trying to push a big gear cycling. When you push too big of a gear, you can do it for a short period of time, but then it feels like you will damage the muscles if you keep doing it. Grabbing too much water on a pull is just like that, except it damages my shoulders.


2013-12-05 11:13 AM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
Originally posted by JohnnyKay

You might try swimming with 'fists'.   Close your hands into fists and swim.  You will need to get your forearm down and keep your elbow up in order to get much 'pull' on the water.  It's a good way to practice keeping your elbows high and getting your forearm down quickly at the catch.  Try to replicate that when you open your fists ind increase the size of your 'paddle'.



x2

Fist drill helped me a lot.

Also when I pull I can sometimes feel my hand and arm slide from side to side, making a slight 's' shape in the water. For me this feels like I have slipped and lost grip on the water. The good ones are when the arm goes striaght back and I feel like I had hold of the same block of water all the way back to my thigh.
2013-12-05 12:07 PM
in reply to: slonce5


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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel

Try a set of small paddles with loose wrist straps to feel what the pull should feel like. You don't need to train hard with it, but it's worth at least trying a few times to see how grip on the water feels. Really emphasize early vertical forearm with the paddles. It will likely make you slower for now but it's sort of what you're striving for with gripping the water with your arm rather than just sliding your arm through the water.

2013-12-10 8:47 PM
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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
Sorry to butt in but I just have to say that I tried thinking I was "pulling myself up a ladder" during my swim this morning and I had one of the fastest 50m times I've had in ages! My only problem was trying not to make my hand into a bit of a claw while thinking too much about the ladder rungs haha

Thanks everyone for your input!
2013-12-13 12:45 AM
in reply to: ssshaunaaa

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
It's one thing to visualize it in your head by thinking about planting your hand and moving your body over it, and it's something else to actually getting a physical sensation of it. I think my muscles finally started to get it a little better when I tried a little experiment at home. I laid on my belly near the edge of my bed and put my arm out ahead like I was taking a stroke. I laid my forearm all the way up to my elbow against the side of the bed, in the same position that I would be in if I was mid catch in the pool, and just applied force with my arm back towards the mattress. I wanted to get the feeling that I was really grabbing onto a large surface area with my whole arm and not just my hand, and I wanted the feeling of pulling my whole body over that anchor, instead of just windmilling my arms through the water. This simple test seemed to give my muscles a better idea of how to grab onto the water in the pool and move my body through the water
2013-12-13 12:46 AM
in reply to: ssshaunaaa

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
It's one thing to visualize it in your head by thinking about planting your hand and moving your body over it, and it's something else to actually getting a physical sensation of it. I think my muscles finally started to get it a little better when I tried a little experiment at home. I laid on my belly near the edge of my bed and put my arm out ahead like I was taking a stroke. I laid my forearm all the way up to my elbow against the side of the bed, in the same position that I would be in if I was mid catch in the pool, and just applied force with my arm back towards the mattress. I wanted to get the feeling that I was really grabbing onto a large surface area with my whole arm and not just my hand, and I wanted the feeling of pulling my whole body over that anchor, instead of just windmilling my arms through the water. This simple test seemed to give my muscles a better idea of how to grab onto the water in the pool and move my body through the water


2013-12-14 9:58 AM
in reply to: Dunn Right

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
Originally posted by Dunn Right

Originally posted by slonce5
What is the feel for swimming? Do you have the feel for swimming? How would you describe it?

That is something that is very difficult to describe with words. I was a competitive swimmer for 10 years and I'm not sure I could explain how swimming feels to me. One thing I can tell you for certain: if you train with poor technique, you are doing more harm than good.

I work at a pool and I see TONS of people (even triathletes!) come in and spend a lot of time in the pool doing WAY more work than they have to. Like some of the other people on here have said, if you are exerting a lot of energy then you're probably doing something wrong. If you have poor technique when you train, you will form bad habits that will make your stroke less efficient and possibly even injure you.

One of the things I often tell people to do if they ask me for advice is to watch other people swim. Go on Youtube and watch videos of people swimming in the Olympics; if anyone is going to have a feel for swimming, it's them!

The closest thing I can give you to explaining that "feeling" is telling you to feel balanced in the water. Check out this video from the 2012 London Olympics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe3I8NkR5oQ&t=5m58s

Do you see how balanced he is in the water? Another key aspect is his turnover. He's got around a 3/4 catchup stroke going. When swimming the longer distances you'll definitely want to stretch out your stroke as much as you can.

Hope this helps, good luck!



Thanks for response. I guess that my technique was not so bad because two swimming instructors did not see any major technique problems. They told me my technique was good but I need to develop the feel for water. That was a bit frustrating.
2013-12-14 10:02 AM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
Originally posted by trijamie

It's one thing to visualize it in your head by thinking about planting your hand and moving your body over it, and it's something else to actually getting a physical sensation of it. I think my muscles finally started to get it a little better when I tried a little experiment at home. I laid on my belly near the edge of my bed and put my arm out ahead like I was taking a stroke. I laid my forearm all the way up to my elbow against the side of the bed, in the same position that I would be in if I was mid catch in the pool, and just applied force with my arm back towards the mattress. I wanted to get the feeling that I was really grabbing onto a large surface area with my whole arm and not just my hand, and I wanted the feeling of pulling my whole body over that anchor, instead of just windmilling my arms through the water. This simple test seemed to give my muscles a better idea of how to grab onto the water in the pool and move my body through the water


Thanks that is great advice.
2013-12-14 7:51 PM
in reply to: slonce5

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
Hi, Thanks to everyone for advice, I think I finally get it woohoo!!
It felt that it was almost hard to move the water with my forearm. I definitely swam faster.
I noticed that during the pull my forearms were rather away from the rest of my body. Is it correct?

Now I just need to work on feeling the kick and pull at the same time.
2013-12-15 4:16 PM
in reply to: slonce5

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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
Originally posted by slonce5
During days when my swimming technique was very good but not perfect I took a few swimming lessons with different instructors.
Two of them told me that my technique was good, but I need to swim a lot to develop a feel for swimming. They did not seem to know why I could not swim faster. The third one helped me a lot, but he was very expensive and I cannot afford him.


Hi, i just reread this part of your original post.
It seems like you discovered that some swim instructors are better than others...and the one who was able to help you a lot, charged more for his/her experience. You don't always get what you pay for of course, but if hte 3rd one was very helpful but very expensive...maybe there is a middle ground. How much is it worth to you to swim better sooner? If he is say, 3x more expensive than the others, but can help you 3x as quickly...it would all even out but you'd probabaly enjoy it more with a capable instructor. Why not hire him/her for a lesson 1x a month or 1x every 2 months?
2013-12-16 1:56 PM
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Subject: RE: What is the feeling for swimming-how does the pull feel
This is a nice thread, since I've wondered the same thing. I've had instruction, but they didn't make it very clear. I've read the swim secrets books too... there's some excellent thoughts here that will help.

Edited by tomspharmacy 2013-12-16 1:57 PM


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