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Government waste
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 2014-01-10 1:01 PM |
Elite  4564    Boise |  Subject: Government wastehttp://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-10/292-million-down-drain-whi... I was reading this article and then I got to thinking. How is this company allowed to do this? I work in the bid field myself. If I say I'm going to provide something, I have to do it. If I don't, I don't get paid and I can even end up owing money for not providing the correct item. How do these contractors get away with it? How is that they aren't required to repay the $292m back to the government? Edit: What I'm getting at, is literally HOW. Isn't there a law or something that says you have to provide the product? Edited by JoshR 2014-01-10 1:02 PM |
| 2014-01-10 1:46 PM in reply to: JoshR |
1300  | Subject: RE: Government waste Not a lawyer here but I believe the argument could be made that they did provide a product? It didn't work as expected or proposed but that would be a different lawsuit. The bigger question would be why was that co given the no bid contract based on its history. I have no idea other then what I have read including the article you linked. The important thing is I can clearly understand how you could get frustrated with something like this and comparing it to what transpires in your life. Just remember to disregard all aspects of reality when you look at things the government does. They certainly seem to. |
| 2014-01-10 2:23 PM in reply to: Goggles Pizzano |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Government waste Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano Not a lawyer here but I believe the argument could be made that they did provide a product? It didn't work as expected or proposed but that would be a different lawsuit. The bigger question would be why was that co given the no bid contract based on its history. I have no idea other then what I have read including the article you linked. The important thing is I can clearly understand how you could get frustrated with something like this and comparing it to what transpires in your life. Just remember to disregard all aspects of reality when you look at things the government does. They certainly seem to. That's still my point though. How can they provide a million lines of code that don't work and still get paid? I do get involved in some government work and we don't get paid until we have delivered what was promised. How do they get paid and then just walk away? |
| 2014-01-10 2:35 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 286 , | Subject: RE: Government waste I agree with Goggles. I think they provided the 'product,' and the question becomes ...were they aware of the 'imperfections' in their services, and forged ahead, promising more than they could deliver, or was it truly...a case of business error? In other words, was there deliberate intent to mislead? But, either way...if I sell someone a defective product or don't deliver on a business promise for a service, for whatever reason...USUALLY the client has the right to expect his/her money back. Hard to say, I'm wondering how it will pan out. As an aside, the article was rather biased, and riddled with opinion, though. Not saying there wasn't merit or truth in the words, but it was clearly a biased piece. Edited by SGirl 2014-01-10 2:35 PM |
| 2014-01-10 2:52 PM in reply to: SGirl |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Government waste Originally posted by SGirl I agree with Goggles. I think they provided the 'product,' and the question becomes ...were they aware of the 'imperfections' in their services, and forged ahead, promising more than they could deliver, or was it truly...a case of business error? In other words, was there deliberate intent to mislead? But, either way...if I sell someone a defective product or don't deliver on a business promise for a service, for whatever reason...USUALLY the client has the right to expect his/her money back. Hard to say, I'm wondering how it will pan out. As an aside, the article was rather biased, and riddled with opinion, though. Not saying there wasn't merit or truth in the words, but it was clearly a biased piece. I should state that that is not an unbiased site. They are not attempting to be. |
| 2014-01-10 3:36 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Government waste Purely from a legality standpoint it depends greatly on how the contract is worded. We have had situations where we have received bids that specify three things for example and we know that it won't work unless they buy a fourth thing. However, we can only respond with what they request and often times we can't even communicate with the technical folks to convey the error in order to maintain the integrity of the bid process. If we respond with a "non working" solution and win the bid we have met all of the requirements. Then when we deliver the products (as requested) they get upset that the solution doesn't work, but we clearly point out the flaw in their bid and that we met the specifications of the bid. Therefore they pay us the full amount and have to either do a change order (and spend more money), or send out a whole new bid request. I chuckle when I hear people defend the government as being efficient. I've worked in the government as an employee and with the government as a service/product supplier and they are very inefficient. |
| 2014-01-14 8:58 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Government waste Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano Not a lawyer here but I believe the argument could be made that they did provide a product? It didn't work as expected or proposed but that would be a different lawsuit. The bigger question would be why was that co given the no bid contract based on its history. I have no idea other then what I have read including the article you linked. The important thing is I can clearly understand how you could get frustrated with something like this and comparing it to what transpires in your life. Just remember to disregard all aspects of reality when you look at things the government does. They certainly seem to. That's still my point though. How can they provide a million lines of code that don't work and still get paid? I do get involved in some government work and we don't get paid until we have delivered what was promised. How do they get paid and then just walk away? Most likely a very poorly written scope of work. I work with contracts and it amazes me how highly educated, very bright scientists and engineers don't know how to write a solid SOW. Or they are just too lazy! If it's not clearly defined in the SOW you won't have anything to support you should the contractor not perform. The contract will address all the T's and Cs...but nothing in the basic contract describes how the final product should perform. I honestly think most technical guys would like to hire contractors with a handshake. And the majority of the time they'll get what they want. But situations such as in the article...this is why it is important to have all requirements clearly defined. |
| 2014-01-14 9:46 PM in reply to: rayd |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Government waste Originally posted by rayd Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano Not a lawyer here but I believe the argument could be made that they did provide a product? It didn't work as expected or proposed but that would be a different lawsuit. The bigger question would be why was that co given the no bid contract based on its history. I have no idea other then what I have read including the article you linked. The important thing is I can clearly understand how you could get frustrated with something like this and comparing it to what transpires in your life. Just remember to disregard all aspects of reality when you look at things the government does. They certainly seem to. That's still my point though. How can they provide a million lines of code that don't work and still get paid? I do get involved in some government work and we don't get paid until we have delivered what was promised. How do they get paid and then just walk away? Most likely a very poorly written scope of work. I work with contracts and it amazes me how highly educated, very bright scientists and engineers don't know how to write a solid SOW. Or they are just too lazy! If it's not clearly defined in the SOW you won't have anything to support you should the contractor not perform. The contract will address all the T's and Cs...but nothing in the basic contract describes how the final product should perform. I honestly think most technical guys would like to hire contractors with a handshake. And the majority of the time they'll get what they want. But situations such as in the article...this is why it is important to have all requirements clearly defined. Just throw in the engineering catchall "all parts necessary for a working system" That's what I get to deal with. |
| 2014-01-15 4:12 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Government waste We do state work and we get a lot of "we pay this no mater how long it takes". Estimate high and hope you do not run into issues. |
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