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2014-02-20 4:35 PM

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Subject: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
How do you carry your nutrition on the bike?

I am trying to figure out how to carry my nutrition for IM Boulder. I know that I need to consume 3-5000 calories on the bike, that is more than I eat in one normal day.

For last year's HIM I just had a Cliff bar and a packet of Shot Blox on the ride and a Gel at 5 and 10 miles on the run. I know that I need to consume much more for the IM.

If I choose to use Liquid Nutrition should I use a multi serving mix in a water bottle as Hammer suggests? Will 8 scoops of powder in a water bottle be too thick and taste nasty? Or should I carry baggies of powder with me and mix them on the go?

I have also seen bikes with Gels taped on them, maybe liquid and Gels are the way way to go.

Also since it will be very hot like last August I plan on consuming 1-2 Salt Stick pills an hour.


2014-02-20 7:24 PM
in reply to: rick4657


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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
And not to thread hijack but would it be considered littering if I threw a banana peel onto the shoulder during the bike portion of a HIM? I want to eat a 1-2 bananas but don't want to carry the peel around with me.
2014-02-20 7:26 PM
in reply to: rick4657

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
Where are you getting your 3000-5000 number? Let's assume a 6 hour ride... that's 500-800 cal/hour. 500 would be at the very high end of what's normal for an AG'er. 800 will more than likely result in 26 miles of walking and vomiting.
2014-02-20 7:26 PM
in reply to: slaterson19

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
Originally posted by slaterson19And not to thread hijack but would it be considered littering if I threw a banana peel onto the shoulder during the bike portion of a HIM? I want to eat a 1-2 bananas but don't want to carry the peel around with me.
Yes.
2014-02-20 7:44 PM
in reply to: rick4657

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.

I use a bento box and multiple bottle holders.

I concentrated my Infinit to 1.5 bottles per one bottle and made sure I drank extra water to dilute it in my gut.  These seemed to work ok and gave me 4.5 bottles worth at the start plus a bottle of water.  I then had one more bottle with just powder in it at special needs and mixed it there.  People concentrate their bottles to various degrees but what killed me in one HIM was not taking in enough water with the concentrate to dilute it properly.  Apparently the body diverts fluid to the gut which caused systemic dehydration for me.  I was flat on my back 1/4 mile from the finish.

For what it's worth, 3k to 5k calories seems a bit much, more so the top end.  I averaged about 280-300 calories per hour with Infinit and a gel every 1.25 hour.  Even for my crappy 7 hour bike, that's only 2100 calories max.  Your gut can only handle so many calories per hour anyways.  The Infinit had all of the sodium I needed and I don't anticipate having to take in more salt at Boulder.  There's a lot of discussion back and forth whether you really need to supplement sodium or not.

Training rides are where you dial it in.  I started with Fink's recommendation of 500 calories per hour and quickly realized that this was way too much and that it was impractical.  Discussion on BT found that most people seemed to be around the 200-300 calorie mark so I experimented around those numbers and found what worked for me.  Liquid, gels, or solids depends on preference and what your gut can handle.  I limited my gels on the bike because I planned on using them more often on the run and didn't want to be sick of them by then.  I stayed away from solids to try to avoid potential digestive issues. 

2014-02-20 8:27 PM
in reply to: #4952959

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
I got the 3-5000 from reading as FF Stock said about 500 per hour , so closer to 3000 than 5000. 200-300 cals per hour sounds a lot more reasonable.


2014-02-20 9:10 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
I used all Hammer products for my half ironman. I used Perpetuem (Carb/Protein) drink mix very concentrated in 2-4oz flasks = 270 calories each in holsters mounted at the back of my double bottle holder behind my saddle. In my 2 - 22oz bottles i had 1 with just water and the other 2.5 scoops @ 100 calories per scoop = 250 calories of Hammer HEED electrolyte drink mix. I also had an aero-bento box on my frame in front of me with a 4oz flask of 2 hammer gels/3 servings of Hammer Enduolyte Powder. Consumed all throughout the 3 hour/56 mile ride..

The run I carried a 2-4oz flasks, 1 flask with 2 Hammer gels = 180 calories and 1 flask with 1 scoop Hammer HEED = 100 calories with a few servings of Endrolyte powder in there..these small 4 oz flasks fit comfortably in my 2 small pockets on the side/back of my TriTop.

I did havd a couple muscle cramps about a 1/2 mile in to the run but managed them well and ran the entire 13 miles nonstop....

I weigh 150 pounds.

Edited by kandk 2014-02-20 9:24 PM
2014-02-20 9:17 PM
in reply to: rick4657

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
I am a 200 lb male and consumed an average of 250 to 300 cal/hr at Lake Placid last year and it was just right for me. I used two gel flasks and kept two more in special needs. I also kept salt stick caps in ZipFiz container, 1 every 2 to 3 hours. I kept it all in my jersey. Torpedo mount and down tube bottles for water, t empty would go in the downtube one until I got to another aid station. Sometimes I just had one bottle with me at a time, no need to carry an extra pound of water when climbing.
2014-02-20 10:51 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
Originally posted by rick4657

I got the 3-5000 from reading as FF Stock said about 500 per hour , so closer to 3000 than 5000. 200-300 cals per hour sounds a lot more reasonable.


Yeah 3-5K calories on the bike would be insane. You'd be hitting the restroom non-stop on the run. I'm sure you'll hear this over and over again but race like you train. For me, I used a gel every 45 minutes and drank 1 24 oz gatoraid/ironman drink every hour (race weight was about 165). This gets me to about ~300 calories/hour. I'm one of "those" people and taped up 8 Gu gels on my aerobars and then just replenished my sugar drink at the aid stations. For me, having the gels on the aero bars taped down was a million times easier than trying to get it out of my jersey and then trying to open it while riding (not safe for me!). Tape the gel pack tabs down and you only need to rip them off your bars to open it. I'll take safety over the aero penalty.

Some people mix their own drinks. They got used to these special powders and such. I just trained with what I knew would be on the course and I just got used to having that only. YMMV

Edited by Blastman 2014-02-20 10:52 PM
2014-02-21 6:51 AM
in reply to: rick4657

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.

Originally posted by rick4657 I got the 3-5000 from reading as FF Stock said about 500 per hour , so closer to 3000 than 5000. 200-300 cals per hour sounds a lot more reasonable.

Okay... now that we got you off taking 3000-5000 calories.

I have done a half dozen IM's and have tried various methods.  Slowest ride was 5:40 and fastest was just over 5 hours.  The first couple I used Infinit and tried to take in 250 cals/hour.  The problem I was having with Infinit is that I wasn't taking in enough water.  Not nearly as bad as the other poster but I knew I wasn't getting enough water and it was causing some mild dehydration issues.

I then made the swap to just living off the course.  So it was just drinking the IM Perform.  I got in all the calories and enough liquid but I learned that I needed something solid on the bike plus I could only drink so much of the Perform.  Still tried to stick to 250 cals/hour.

Last year I did two IM races and decided to switch things up a little.  I upped my caloric intake to 350 cals/hour.  I drank all the Perform I could during the first half of the bike ride and then stopped (maybe 6-7 bottles).  I ate a PB&J halfway through and then finished the rest of the ride with water and gels.  The PB&J and gels were stored in my bento box.

2014-02-21 10:28 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
I have one of those frame bags on my bike that goes on my stem as well as a saddlebag under my seat. The frame bag doesn't hold much but I can get several cliff shots or chomps in there as well as my S-Caps (I use one of those M&M tubes for the S-Caps as I like to take one once an hour). I can stuff more in my saddlebag but thats normally crowded with 2 tubes and tire changing stuff. But its really nice if your needing a pick me up t grab something out of the frame bag and not have to wait for an aid station.


2014-02-21 11:01 AM
in reply to: sirdizzy

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.

Lots of good suggestions. If you are doing liquid nutrition I would recommend the concentration method and NOT mixing as you go. I'm sure people have done that, but it seems to introduce a very unnecessary and risky element into your plan.

I mix two, 3-hour bottles of my Infinit mix and carry both with me (with a spare bottle of powder-only in Special Needs, for worst-case scenario only). My aero bottle is for water only and I fill up at each aid station. I also have a Bento box on my frame and put a few gels or chews to mix it up, a Payday candy bar, and a Mentos container with salt pills and ibuprofen. 

To summarize - options:

Liquid nutrition concentration
Bento box
Jersey/shorts pockets
Live or suppliement off the course

2014-02-23 6:45 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
I would seriously consider living off the course. It really simplifies your race day.

If you do decide to live off the course, be sure to train with what will be offered on race day.

Personally I take in 1 gel every half hour and drink 1 bottle of Perform between each aid station.
2014-02-23 9:13 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
Lots of discussion on how many calories etc., but back to how to carry them, if you mean the full IM Boulder, and not the 70.3 and you want to carry your nutrition, note that you'll also likely change into bike shorts jacket, which gives you the usual pocket options.

I agree that living off the course on a 70.3 and IM is a great idea. In the HIMs I did, I performed so much better that way, with just a small aero bike bag for the initial or occasional additional Honey Stinger. For my first IM I plan to change and will have some rice cakes; see http://www.amazon.com/Feed-Zone-Portables-On-Go/dp/1937715000 for what the Tour de France guys use.

Ironman Perform is also an awesome drink mix that sticks to the basics and is offered on most IM courses.

Edited by FranzZemen 2014-02-23 9:15 AM
2014-02-23 11:04 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by rick4657 I got the 3-5000 from reading as FF Stock said about 500 per hour , so closer to 3000 than 5000. 200-300 cals per hour sounds a lot more reasonable.

Okay... now that we got you off taking 3000-5000 calories.

I have done a half dozen IM's and have tried various methods.  Slowest ride was 5:40 and fastest was just over 5 hours.  The first couple I used Infinit and tried to take in 250 cals/hour.  The problem I was having with Infinit is that I wasn't taking in enough water.  Not nearly as bad as the other poster but I knew I wasn't getting enough water and it was causing some mild dehydration issues.

I then made the swap to just living off the course.  So it was just drinking the IM Perform.  I got in all the calories and enough liquid but I learned that I needed something solid on the bike plus I could only drink so much of the Perform.  Still tried to stick to 250 cals/hour.

Last year I did two IM races and decided to switch things up a little.  I upped my caloric intake to 350 cals/hour.  I drank all the Perform I could during the first half of the bike ride and then stopped (maybe 6-7 bottles).  I ate a PB&J halfway through and then finished the rest of the ride with water and gels.  The PB&J and gels were stored in my bento box.




Lots of good information here Bob have to save it to my favorites.!!!
2014-03-25 6:36 PM
in reply to: rick4657

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Richland, Washington
Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
On most IM's I've done, I shove 2 flasks of EFS in my trisuit and then live off the course for the rest.... however, over the past few years, I have gone pretty much vegan... so it makes it harder. I still use the EFS flasks, but I fill them with my own "secret mix".... then I live off oranges and water on the course.


2014-03-25 10:16 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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, Jawa Barat
Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
How do you have 6-7 bottles on your bike? I am new to Tris so please forgive my ignorance.

I have no clue on how much, or what to take on a long ride/ tri.
2014-03-25 11:00 PM
in reply to: JoshuaBlackburn

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Richland, Washington
Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
Ironman Perform is usually provided by the race. Swapping bottles at transition is how you can live off the course.
2014-03-26 12:31 AM
in reply to: Swimaway

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
I see said the blind man to the deaf dog!
2014-03-26 7:34 AM
in reply to: JoshuaBlackburn

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.

Originally posted by JoshuaBlackburn How do you have 6-7 bottles on your bike? I am new to Tris so please forgive my ignorance. I have no clue on how much, or what to take on a long ride/ tri.

There are aid stations every 10-15 miles so you just grab a new one.  I actually only carry one bottle on my bike at a time.

2014-03-26 8:21 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
Originally posted by lisac957

Lots of good suggestions. If you are doing liquid nutrition I would recommend the concentration method and NOT mixing as you go. I'm sure people have done that, but it seems to introduce a very unnecessary and risky element into your plan.

I mix two, 3-hour bottles of my Infinit mix and carry both with me (with a spare bottle of powder-only in Special Needs, for worst-case scenario only). My aero bottle is for water only and I fill up at each aid station. I also have a Bento box on my frame and put a few gels or chews to mix it up, a Payday candy bar, and a Mentos container with salt pills and ibuprofen. 

To summarize - options:

Liquid nutrition concentration
Bento box
Jersey/shorts pockets
Live or suppliement off the course




Lisa,

How many scoops did you put in each bottle to make a 3 hr mix? For my custom blend, they say 2 scoops per hour so (6) for a 3hr bottle? I tried it once in training and I could not get it to mix at all, just seemed to much powder and every time I sipped, I could feel the powder and got this gritty taste in my mouth and it was ultra sweet. How long did it take you to play around with this before you got it right? I would like to make concentrated bottles for my IM but I think I will have to make 4 2hr bottles and switch out at SN. Did you experience any of the same things I did with the concentrated bottles?


2014-03-27 5:25 PM
in reply to: dmbfan4life20

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
For hydration, I bring my own mix along with me. I've got a 40 oz Profile Design Speedfill on my downtube, which is mixed at a normal concentration - this is good for ~2 hrs of drinking. And I've got a bento box full of chews. Then I've got 2 rear bottle cages. In one, I have a 6-hour concentrated bottle. Every 2 hours (or every 2 aid stations), I'll add concentrate + water to the Speedfill. This is done pretty easily, especially since I mark an approximate "2 hour" level on the bottle (but mark as you hold it upside down, to represent what you'll do on the course). In the other cage is a dry bike bottle, with packets of chews crammed inside. I try to stop 2x to use the bathroom and I'll grab some chews from the dry bottle while I'm stopped.

This year, I'm trying to go with more of a whole foods approach, but figuring out how to carry 7 hrs of food is a bit daunting. I bet I'll have to use Special Needs to make it happen.
2014-03-28 9:15 AM
in reply to: mountain_erin

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
Originally posted by mountain_erin

For hydration, I bring my own mix along with me. I've got a 40 oz Profile Design Speedfill on my downtube, which is mixed at a normal concentration - this is good for ~2 hrs of drinking. And I've got a bento box full of chews. Then I've got 2 rear bottle cages. In one, I have a 6-hour concentrated bottle. Every 2 hours (or every 2 aid stations), I'll add concentrate + water to the Speedfill. This is done pretty easily, especially since I mark an approximate "2 hour" level on the bottle (but mark as you hold it upside down, to represent what you'll do on the course). In the other cage is a dry bike bottle, with packets of chews crammed inside. I try to stop 2x to use the bathroom and I'll grab some chews from the dry bottle while I'm stopped.

This year, I'm trying to go with more of a whole foods approach, but figuring out how to carry 7 hrs of food is a bit daunting. I bet I'll have to use Special Needs to make it happen.


I did the feed zone portables for my HIM last year - admittedly only 3-4 hours on the bike, but I was able to get enough food in my mounted bag, plus jacket to last - I used like an egg souffle thing that was cooked into muffin tin - it was eggs/calrose rice/cheese with salt, and then rice balls (calrose rice, cream cheese, some flavored natural jam) - I alternated between the 2 every 30-45 minutes, plus water/gatorade
2014-03-30 7:47 AM
in reply to: #4952959

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Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
I cannot stress enough how easy it is to live off of an IM course. I leave transition on the bike with only my aero bottle full of perform and 2 gels. Everything else comes from aid stations.
2014-03-30 9:44 AM
in reply to: Calvin386

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Richland, Washington
Subject: RE: Carrying nutrition on the bike.
I have to say, it makes me laugh every time I see someone doing what I call the "camel.." they have 5 bottles on their bike, 20 gels hanging off the top tube, a child's lunch shoved in the bento box, enough tubes and c02 to change 10 tires, a change of socks shoved in their trisuit.... they are out to live for DAYS! Then, to top it all off, they're riding a cervelo p5 with a sub9 and an 808 to be more aero... Meanwhile, I cruise by with a single bottle between my bars and some flasks shoved in my suit waiting to swap my bottle for another at the next aid station.

Simplify your day! If you can drink Ironman perform, train with it so you can use it on the course saving bottles. If you can use GU shots, train with them so you can eat them on the course. Everyone is different, I understand, but the one thing I've learned after doing a half dozen full and another half dozen half irons, and growing up a competitive swimming (both long distance open water and confined to a pool) simplify simplify simplify.
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