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2014-02-27 10:26 AM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by Kido

Also, to really get deep...

Again, and internet or a typical communication problem that happens:

We are probably all forgetting perspective.  As women around guys, of course the men are going to try to get you to "loosen up" and have some drinks and flirt and all that stuff.  

I had this thought, too. 
I also think women feel an inherent need to justify or explain things sometimes. It's harder for us (me) to just say "naw I'm not drinking" and feel the need to give a back story and justification (I found myself saying "guys I am not pregnant" last time this happened - why did I feel the need to say that? I don't know, self imposed). But people do, I think, tend to be more forward pressing the issue with a woman over a man - maybe that's why the mens responses are so different than the womens in this discussion. 



2014-02-27 10:49 AM
in reply to: mehaner

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Subject: RE: What to drink

Not "everyone".  And I'm not going to go back and read, but I don't think anyone said it doesn't happen.  Just that if it DID happen, gave an alternative solution to faking alcoholic beverages with just standing up and saying it is what it is and not fielding questions.

You really think that everyone else didn't even CONSIDER their experience was not the only one?  I would say my post brining it up different perspectives showed that, I in fact, I DID consider it.  Do you not think very highly of the other people in the conversation?  Accusing them of not considering alternative experiences or think you are making it up?  I thought you knew me well enough, but my wife works in an industry where this happens ALL THE TIME.  Girls wear wedding rings even if they are not married to avoid being hit on.  I can't even watch her work because I have to witness it first hand.  But I still think the answer if being harassed is "knock it off" or remove yourself from the situation.  But I see the use of deception just not to "deal with it".  I just don't agree with it.

If anything, I try to ALWAYS try to see the argument from the opponent's viewpoint.  I guess the problem with the internet or not knowing the people in the discussion.  In my opinion, I did none of the things you said everyone did.  I didn't say you made it up, I considered other viewpoints, and didn't say it doesn't happen.

2014-02-27 10:55 AM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by Kido

Not "everyone".  And I'm not going to go back and read, but I don't think anyone said it doesn't happen.  Just that if it DID happen, gave an alternative solution to faking alcoholic beverages with just standing up and saying it is what it is and not fielding questions.

You really think that everyone else didn't even CONSIDER their experience was not the only one?  I would say my post brining it up different perspectives showed that, I in fact, I DID consider it.  Do you not think very highly of the other people in the conversation?  Accusing them of not considering alternative experiences or think you are making it up?  I thought you knew me well enough, but my wife works in an industry where this happens ALL THE TIME.  Girls wear wedding rings even if they are not married to avoid being hit on.  I can't even watch her work because I have to witness it first hand.  But I still think the answer if being harassed is "knock it off" or remove yourself from the situation.  But I see the use of deception just not to "deal with it".  I just don't agree with it.

If anything, I try to ALWAYS try to see the argument from the opponent's viewpoint.  I guess the problem with the internet or not knowing the people in the discussion.  In my opinion, I did none of the things you said everyone did.  I didn't say you made it up, I considered other viewpoints, and didn't say it doesn't happen.

you obviously considered it after SEVERAL posts that were contrary to that, including the advice to quit my job over it (!)

2014-02-27 11:00 AM
in reply to: mehaner

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Subject: RE: What to drink

I need a beer.

2014-02-27 11:00 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by lisac957

Originally posted by Kido

Also, to really get deep...

Again, and internet or a typical communication problem that happens:

We are probably all forgetting perspective.  As women around guys, of course the men are going to try to get you to "loosen up" and have some drinks and flirt and all that stuff.  

I had this thought, too. 
I also think women feel an inherent need to justify or explain things sometimes. It's harder for us (me) to just say "naw I'm not drinking" and feel the need to give a back story and justification (I found myself saying "guys I am not pregnant" last time this happened - why did I feel the need to say that? I don't know, self imposed). But people do, I think, tend to be more forward pressing the issue with a woman over a man - maybe that's why the mens responses are so different than the womens in this discussion. 

Believe it or not, I JUST participated in a study delving into this.

In a nutshell, the test/game I participated in showed that women tend to elaborate and provide more detail than men.  They tend to be more observant and intuitive so more information the better.  Men tend to be slightly more linear and concise and NOT provide extra detail or backstory.

So maybe men are more "hardwired" to get to the point and women are hardwired provide detail and/or field questions.  At least that's what they were saying.

DISCLAIMER:  I'm not saying women talk too much or go into to much detail and that all men are more concise.  Just on average, they study says men are more prone to provide less detail and get straight to the point and the study showed that.  Not to say either is bad or good, just different.

.

2014-02-27 11:16 AM
in reply to: 0

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Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by Kido

Not "everyone".  And I'm not going to go back and read, but I don't think anyone said it doesn't happen.  Just that if it DID happen, gave an alternative solution to faking alcoholic beverages with just standing up and saying it is what it is and not fielding questions.

You really think that everyone else didn't even CONSIDER their experience was not the only one?  I would say my post brining it up different perspectives showed that, I in fact, I DID consider it.  Do you not think very highly of the other people in the conversation?  Accusing them of not considering alternative experiences or think you are making it up?  I thought you knew me well enough, but my wife works in an industry where this happens ALL THE TIME.  Girls wear wedding rings even if they are not married to avoid being hit on.  I can't even watch her work because I have to witness it first hand.  But I still think the answer if being harassed is "knock it off" or remove yourself from the situation.  But I see the use of deception just not to "deal with it".  I just don't agree with it.

If anything, I try to ALWAYS try to see the argument from the opponent's viewpoint.  I guess the problem with the internet or not knowing the people in the discussion.  In my opinion, I did none of the things you said everyone did.  I didn't say you made it up, I considered other viewpoints, and didn't say it doesn't happen.

you obviously considered it after SEVERAL posts that were contrary to that, including the advice to quit my job over it (!)

So you know exactly when I considered it? 

Whatever.  Discount me or my thought process.  You can say I didn't consider it or WHEN I considered it like you can read my mind.  Cool.

Honestly, you think I was saying quit your job over getting teased?  REALLY?  You REALLY thought I would suggest that the very first option was to quit a job?

OK, I will clarify...  No.  If someone teases you and calls you a lightweight when out with the coworkers.  DON'T put in your two weeks notice.  I wouldn't think that needed to be said, but maybe it does.

HOWEVER, if you have friends or coworkers, that every time you go out, badger you, harass you, grill you with questions about a life style choice that does not impact them, you MAY want to at least CONSIDER if they are your real friends or if you take legal action at the workplace or find another job.

I figured me suggesting looking for new friends or work to avoid harassment as an alternative would imply that things got pretty bad and that's not the absolute first option.  But twice now, that seems to be the message I gave.

For the record, don't tell someone to GFY or knock it off if they ask one question.  Don't quit your job of someone makes a joke about your eating/drinking habit.  But if there is chronic grilling and harassment from so called friends and coworkers.  You  may want to reexamine the situation.

 

ETA:  You know, sometime someone can just not agree with you.  Just because they don't agree, doesn't mean they don't consider alternatives (or thought of them too late?) or accusing you of making things up.  Maybe they just don't agree.  That does happen sometimes.

 

 



Edited by Kido 2014-02-27 11:20 AM


2014-02-27 11:21 AM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: What to drink
2014-02-27 11:24 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Sin City
Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by Left Brain

I need a beer.

Lightweight.  At least chase it with a whiskey shot.

O, BTW, about God hating me?  On some days, I would agree!  Or at least he is really testing me!  (ok, SHE is)

2014-02-27 11:26 AM
in reply to: Aarondb4

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Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by Aarondb4

Right! 

Back to the OP.

Coffee or Tea.  May need the caffeine to keep up.  That's what I would do.

2014-02-27 11:27 AM
in reply to: 0

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Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: What to drink

DP

 



Edited by Kido 2014-02-27 11:38 AM
2014-02-27 11:30 AM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: What to drink

 

Bout time somebody got some controversy going in here. CoJ has been nothing but puppies and flower petals for too long. Keep it up Kido!



2014-02-27 11:50 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: What to drink
Originally posted by lisac957

Originally posted by Kido

Also, to really get deep...

Again, and internet or a typical communication problem that happens:

We are probably all forgetting perspective.  As women around guys, of course the men are going to try to get you to "loosen up" and have some drinks and flirt and all that stuff.  

I had this thought, too. 
I also think women feel an inherent need to justify or explain things sometimes. It's harder for us (me) to just say "naw I'm not drinking" and feel the need to give a back story and justification (I found myself saying "guys I am not pregnant" last time this happened - why did I feel the need to say that? I don't know, self imposed). But people do, I think, tend to be more forward pressing the issue with a woman over a man - maybe that's why the mens responses are so different than the womens in this discussion. 




I'm a 30-year-old woman and have been married for seven years, no children. If I go to ANY kind of social function where there's drinking, if I don't have a drink in my hand -- every person I talk to is all OMG YOU'RE PREGNANT. My preferred solution would of course be for the world to learn manners, but until then, I'll be ordering something that LOOKS like a drink, even if I'm not drinking. Even if I flat out say, "I just don't feel like drinking," the response is usually a wink and a nudge and then I'm fighting the rumor mill for weeks.
2014-02-27 12:09 PM
in reply to: meggfishy

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Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by meggfishy

I'm a 30-year-old woman and have been married for seven years, no children. If I go to ANY kind of social function where there's drinking, if I don't have a drink in my hand -- every person I talk to is all OMG YOU'RE PREGNANT. My preferred solution would of course be for the world to learn manners, but until then, I'll be ordering something that LOOKS like a drink, even if I'm not drinking. Even if I flat out say, "I just don't feel like drinking," the response is usually a wink and a nudge and then I'm fighting the rumor mill for weeks.

I see the validity in all these examples...  I really do.

But just a personal question about this example.  What about the "rumors" is so uncomfortable or bad?  Do they get nasty or mean?  Only from MY viewpoint, but so what if they speculate you are pregnant?  When someone asks, you say "no".  If they don't ask, in 3 months when you show no signs, they realize (or already forgot!) and feel foolish.

When I tell people my wife is a dancer in Vegas (non Vegas people) I ASSUME what they are thinking - Dollar bills in G-strings.  I could be preemptive and say "NOT ADULT", but why bother?  They will realize soon enough and feel foolish for assuming.  And if they don't realize?  We know the truth and they must be so out of our circle of associates to not know the truth that it probably doesn't matter if they are wrong anyway.

I have to learn this myself, but I think most people are more self conscious of what they THINK people think of them or notice, when really, barely anyone spends more than a couple seconds on it.  I always think people are looking at how tall I am or my bad posture and get self conscious.  But I'm thinking no one really cares other than me.

2014-02-27 12:18 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by Kido

Originally posted by meggfishy

I'm a 30-year-old woman and have been married for seven years, no children. If I go to ANY kind of social function where there's drinking, if I don't have a drink in my hand -- every person I talk to is all OMG YOU'RE PREGNANT. My preferred solution would of course be for the world to learn manners, but until then, I'll be ordering something that LOOKS like a drink, even if I'm not drinking. Even if I flat out say, "I just don't feel like drinking," the response is usually a wink and a nudge and then I'm fighting the rumor mill for weeks.

I see the validity in all these examples...  I really do.

But just a personal question about this example.  What about the "rumors" is so uncomfortable or bad?  Do they get nasty or mean?  Only from MY viewpoint, but so what if they speculate you are pregnant?  When someone asks, you say "no".  If they don't ask, in 3 months when you show no signs, they realize (or already forgot!) and feel foolish.

When I tell people my wife is a dancer in Vegas (non Vegas people) I ASSUME what they are thinking - Dollar bills in G-strings.  I could be preemptive and say "NOT ADULT", but why bother?  They will realize soon enough and feel foolish for assuming.  And if they don't realize?  We know the truth and they must be so out of our circle of associates to not know the truth that it probably doesn't matter if they are wrong anyway.

I have to learn this myself, but I think most people are more self conscious of what they THINK people think of them or notice, when really, barely anyone spends more than a couple seconds on it.  I always think people are looking at how tall I am or my bad posture and get self conscious.  But I'm thinking no one really cares other than me.

I can't figure out what's going on in the minds of the women I know, and you're waging a battle trying to figure out what goes on in the minds of women you don't know at all.  That's strong work.

2014-02-27 12:55 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: What to drink
Originally posted by Kido

Originally posted by meggfishy

I'm a 30-year-old woman and have been married for seven years, no children. If I go to ANY kind of social function where there's drinking, if I don't have a drink in my hand -- every person I talk to is all OMG YOU'RE PREGNANT. My preferred solution would of course be for the world to learn manners, but until then, I'll be ordering something that LOOKS like a drink, even if I'm not drinking. Even if I flat out say, "I just don't feel like drinking," the response is usually a wink and a nudge and then I'm fighting the rumor mill for weeks.

I see the validity in all these examples...  I really do.

But just a personal question about this example.  What about the "rumors" is so uncomfortable or bad?  Do they get nasty or mean?  Only from MY viewpoint, but so what if they speculate you are pregnant?  When someone asks, you say "no".  If they don't ask, in 3 months when you show no signs, they realize (or already forgot!) and feel foolish.

When I tell people my wife is a dancer in Vegas (non Vegas people) I ASSUME what they are thinking - Dollar bills in G-strings.  I could be preemptive and say "NOT ADULT", but why bother?  They will realize soon enough and feel foolish for assuming.  And if they don't realize?  We know the truth and they must be so out of our circle of associates to not know the truth that it probably doesn't matter if they are wrong anyway.

I have to learn this myself, but I think most people are more self conscious of what they THINK people think of them or notice, when really, barely anyone spends more than a couple seconds on it.  I always think people are looking at how tall I am or my bad posture and get self conscious.  But I'm thinking no one really cares other than me.




Professionally, it bothers me because I don't want speculation impacting my work. I've seen it happen (both at my workplace and elsewhere) that pregnant women or women who are perceived to be on the "mommy track" aren't given high priority projects because it's assumed that they will go on leave, or after the baby is born, they won't come back to work or will go part-time. I'm not bothered by people speculating about my personal life, but I don't want it to affect my work.

On a personal level, I've had it happen in the past that a relative assumed I was pregnant and called my mom to congratulate her, which obviously led to a lot of confusion and hurt feelings that I'd rather avoid in the future.
2014-02-27 1:12 PM
in reply to: meggfishy

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Subject: RE: What to drink

I'm sorry.....but I don't think I'm  going to be getting on the "major life impact" bus over an instance of having water instead of wine.  I can understand being uncomfortable, etc.....but it starts to get a bit ridiculous when the discussion turns to major implications over NOT drinking.   I'm not buying it.



2014-02-27 1:47 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: What to drink

I didn't realize all of this was happening since there seem to be very strong feelings about this. 

In that case, I'm now feeling very fortunate that if I decide to drink water one night, I can say "I just don't feel like drinking" and people are cool with it.  I don't have to fear being grilled or questioned or teased or demoted at work.  I would hate the pressure to pretend to be drinking booze to avoid the backlash. 

I honestly didn't think that choosing to NOT drink alcohol was such a problem for some people in their social situations.  I stand corrected.

 

2014-02-27 2:21 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by Kido

I didn't realize all of this was happening since there seem to be very strong feelings about this. 

In that case, I'm now feeling very fortunate that if I decide to drink water one night, I can say "I just don't feel like drinking" and people are cool with it.  I don't have to fear being grilled or questioned or teased or demoted at work.  I would hate the pressure to pretend to be drinking booze to avoid the backlash. 

I honestly didn't think that choosing to NOT drink alcohol was such a problem for some people in their social situations.  I stand corrected.

 

Odd to me too. If I'm not drinking, my friends assume I need to be up early or training or just don't feel like it. I think I'm also well out of the age range where people drink with the primary goal of getting drunk. I don't think I could be part of a social group that pressured me to do anything I didn't feel like doing. Except maybe swimming.

2014-02-27 2:45 PM
in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly

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Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly

Originally posted by Kido

I didn't realize all of this was happening since there seem to be very strong feelings about this. 

In that case, I'm now feeling very fortunate that if I decide to drink water one night, I can say "I just don't feel like drinking" and people are cool with it.  I don't have to fear being grilled or questioned or teased or demoted at work.  I would hate the pressure to pretend to be drinking booze to avoid the backlash. 

I honestly didn't think that choosing to NOT drink alcohol was such a problem for some people in their social situations.  I stand corrected.

 

Odd to me too. If I'm not drinking, my friends assume I need to be up early or training or just don't feel like it. I think I'm also well out of the age range where people drink with the primary goal of getting drunk. I don't think I could be part of a social group that pressured me to do anything I didn't feel like doing. Except maybe swimming.

Haha you better delete your account here then.

2014-02-27 3:05 PM
in reply to: Puppetmaster

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Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by Puppetmaster So if a person does not drink beer anymore and does not drink pop, what does one have if they go to the bar? Joe

Have whatever else you feel like drinking - alcoholic or not.  

There really doesn't have to be awkwardness about it - if asked you can simply say "I'm not drinking (beer) tonight" or some variation of that same statement.  

Personally, I don't like beer at all so if I'm having alcohol when out at a bar it will usually be scotch on the rocks or a gin & tonic/vodka soda type drink.  If I'm not having alcohol then it's just water.  

There's a lot of variety of both boozy and non-boozy drinks for you to choose from.   

2014-02-27 3:10 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by Kido

I didn't realize all of this was happening since there seem to be very strong feelings about this. 

In that case, I'm now feeling very fortunate that if I decide to drink water one night, I can say "I just don't feel like drinking" and people are cool with it.  I don't have to fear being grilled or questioned or teased or demoted at work.  I would hate the pressure to pretend to be drinking booze to avoid the backlash. 

I honestly didn't think that choosing to NOT drink alcohol was such a problem for some people in their social situations.  I stand corrected.

Thankfully I'm past the point now - but there were a few YEARS where my drinking alcohol or not made people speculate as to whether I was pregnant or trying to become pregnant or screwing up all of my chances to become pregnant... and this was from both friends and family.  It wasn't much of a problem per se - just some awkward moments that later became entertaining stories.   

 



2014-02-27 4:01 PM
in reply to: blueyedbikergirl

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Subject: RE: What to drink


Have a Shirley Temple....and if someone says anything negative, respond with "She just died....pay your respects, son!"

2014-02-28 9:54 AM
in reply to: bradleyd3

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Subject: RE: What to drink
I heard this was more fun than COJ.

I just reviewed the page and it has given me a bit of thought. I will be presenting a wine 101 seminar next Friday to some students. While the effort is to introduce them to the variety and flavors of basic wine so they can start their education they are also going to start their professional lives this year after they graduate.

My thought is this. Would it be beneficial to open the topic of behaviors as mentioned so far. The needling, perceptions etc. I see it as a emotional and developing maturity issue in how to handle the situation on both sides of coin.

2014-02-28 12:36 PM
in reply to: tcarlson78

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Subject: RE: What to drink

We have guests fairly often, so I am offering and serving drinks a good bit.  The people being served are generally people whom I know well.  The choices don't seem to follow much of a pattern.  People ask for different drinks or no drinks a lot.  I have never given it much thought as to why they might want something different.

I stopped drinking when I was studying for qualifying exams.  I needed every neuron to be working at peak performance for about 6 months.  Luckily, I passed. I didn't explain my change in habits and I don't recall anyone asking about it.  It was during this time I would choose club soda.  My joke, given usually without prompting, was, "Don't think of it as club soda.  Think of it as ultra light beer."  Low and behold, a few years later Budweiser came out with a beer called Ultra and it tastes just like club soda. 

TW

2014-02-28 12:58 PM
in reply to: mehaner

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Subject: RE: What to drink

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by lisac957

Originally posted by Kido

"Just Because" or "none of your business" and "don't ask me again" seem perfect answers and guess what, no more annoying questions. 

I get where you're coming from, but these answers are generally not "polite" - and in the context of what wer'er talking about - a professional/work networking event or team dinner that would be pretty out of line.

Boss/Customer: "Hey Lisa, you aren't having a glass of wine with us tonight?"
Lisa: "No. Don't ask me again. It's none of your business"

I mean I wouldn't even say that to my friends, let alone someone I wanted to stay on professionally good terms with but I guess everyone communicates differently.

How about:

Boss/customer:  "hey Lisa, you aren't having a glass of wine with us tonight?"

Lisa: "No, I'm having water."

Simple, done.

I have no idea what I would owe beyond that.

Admittedly, I don't go to business dinners/functions/networking events.....but I don't see how that isn't polite and enough.

 

that is what i say - again you are missing what we are saying - but their response is "why not?  come on!  just one drink.  don't be such a baby.  i won't tell anyone if you are a lightweight."  all actual things i have heard said to me or others.

if it sounds like a frat party - you are right - some industries are like that.  i am not sure what is wrong with not wanting to deal with any of it?

and no, i'm not quitting my job over a handful of interactions with douchebags.  i am not sure there is a job in all the world that is douchebag free.

I hear you......I guess my circle of friends is too old to act that way.  I like to drink beer, a lot, so if I'm at a gathering and I don't have a beer someone will say something like, "not drinking tonight?"....and I say, "no, I've got..... " (whatever it is that has kept me from enjoying a beer).  I'm sure when I was younger someone may have made some of the kinds of comments you are talking about, but at this point in life, quite a few people in my age group have quit drinking for one reason or another.....so it would be really odd to have to field a stupid additional comment.

i have only ever gotten these comments from older guys trying to be cool ... or something like that.  at trade shows it is always the middle aged dudes out wasted till 4 am, and the under 30 girls getting a cab home after a glass of wine and dinner at 11.

and never from my friends.  i would NOT tolerate this ish from my friends.

This is why I would not drink at work functions/parties even if I did drink. I know pleanty of knuckleheads that have hurt their careers while at a seminar or out of town meeting. I am not sure what it is that makes dudes revert to their college days once they get "out of town" on business.

One of my last trips, my business partner wanted to go out to a  place that "has over 100 beers". I told him that it did not interest me and I did not drink, to which he could not imagine someone not drinking. The whole conversation lasted about 2 minutes and he has never asked me again, so it has not been an issue with me.

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date : July 5, 2005
author : DominiqueL
comments : 1
The company’s first two offerings are an aerodynamic hydration system and a saddle bag repair kit. PodiumQuest sets itself apart by paying attention to the little things.
date : July 5, 2005
author : Glenn
comments : 1
Without doubt, the single most glaring error I have noticed is the scarce amount of fluids athletes ingest during a race!
 
date : May 3, 2005
author : AMSSM
comments : 0
During training and endurance events, athletes should be careful not to ingest more fluids than necessary.
date : April 18, 2005
author : Nancy Clark
comments : 0
The following is a sneak peak at Nancy Clark’s upcoming book on endurance nutrition - The Cyclist’s Food Guide: Fueling for the Distance
 
date : January 30, 2005
author : DominiqueL
comments : 0
Energy bars and fluid replacement drinks have their place – and will surely be the subject of future reviews – but there is nothing quite like the immediate lift an energy gel can provide.