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2014-03-27 11:50 AM

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Subject: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

In case you do not know.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/03/24/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-hobby-lobby-case/

Curious what you guys think. I have been discussing this on a much more conservative site that of course agrees with a corporation claiming individual rights. I don't for many reasons. 

but this is all part of the "contraceptive mandate" of the ACA. WTF? I have no problem with contraceptives at all, or being covered under normal prescription coverage.... but why in the heck is it "mandated" that all women have to have FREE contraceptives at no cost to them? Why it that the government's job to provide, or the tax payers job to support? It really irritates me what they have done with this monumental failure of public policy. 

I do not agree with Hobby Lobby or the Green family's objection to them on religious grounds, but I certainly disagree with the government mandate free chit. 



2014-03-27 1:19 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA
Here is my take on it.

If people are going to say that they don't want to be 'forced' to pay for contraception or abortion on religious grounds, then at the same time they also have to be ok with not being 'forced' to pay for fertility procedures.

I don't see people getting all up in arms about having to pay for fertility drugs and procedures such as that. One could say that if God wanted you to have a child, then science would not have to get involved. So if science can get involved to 'create' life then it equally should be allowed to be involved to 'cease' it. Both are a choice of the couple and should be equally allowed.

To take it one step further if Hobby Lobby is allowed to make this exception then any company can pick out any specific item and claim religious freedom. Don't believe in cancer treatments? Cool...not going to cover them. etc.
2014-03-27 1:31 PM
in reply to: Marvarnett

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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

I've always felt that when it comes to abortion and contraception for women we'd probably all be better served if men stayed out of it. 

2014-03-27 1:58 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by Left Brain

I've always felt that when it comes to abortion and contraception for women we'd probably all be better served if men stayed out of it. 

hear hear.

In my religion we don't want to provide health care of sinners, so no coverage for drinkers, or smokers, or people who have sex, or people who exercise on sundays, or people who are fat and gluttonous, or people who covet their neighbor's wives, or people who lie, or people who steal, or people who don't put on their left shoe, put on their right shoe, tie their right shoe, and tie their left shoe. in that order.

my what cheap health care I have.

2014-03-27 2:02 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Master
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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

This is where the ACA is a joke and doesn't work.  

1.  If the government wants everyone to have healthcare, then they should provide healthcare to all (via taxes, single payer system).

2.  If the government wants private companies to provide healthcare, then they can not mandate what the private company should cover.

3.  If a person works for a company that doesn't cover something that you fundamentally feel should be covered, then either you can 1.  Suck it up. 2. Get a different job or 3.  Go get your own insurance coverage for that thing.

 

Just my opinion...

2014-03-27 2:03 PM
in reply to: velocomp

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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by velocomp

This is where the ACA is a joke and doesn't work.  

1.  If the government wants everyone to have healthcare, then they should provide healthcare to all (via taxes, single payer system).

2.  If the government wants private companies to provide healthcare, then they can not mandate what the private company should cover.

3.  If a person works for a company that doesn't cover something that you fundamentally feel should be covered, then either you can 1.  Suck it up. 2. Get a different job or 3.  Go get your own insurance coverage for that thing.

 

Just my opinion...

not everyone can afford options 2 or 3



2014-03-27 2:04 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Hobby Lobby has always given me the creeps.

Vindication!

2014-03-27 2:06 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA
The idea is a corporation having a religion is crazy to me. Remember It is not the owner beliefs here but the corporation's beliefs. I have yet to see 1 hobby lobby in any church I have been too. I even see it sitting there only couple of miles away from a church I am attending. I go past it on the way home and its still just sitting there. It did not move. Granted most of my beliefs are not in an agreement with most religions so I tend to stay away from them myself so maybe they are the same way.

I was thinking on the way home yesterday I should start my own religion. One that is against minimum wages, paying employees overtime, and promote the spilling of toxic waste as an offering to God. I figure a nice yearly offering of 1 million dollars to my "church" ought to cover any legal expenses we might occur protecting the religious freedom of our corporation only congregation.

If Hobby Lobby wins that mean I can kill the infidels if my religion demands it?

Question should not be weather or not we should have it in the law. It is a question can ignore a law or parts of it based on religion.
2014-03-27 2:07 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by Left Brain

I've always felt that when it comes to abortion and contraception for women we'd probably all be better served if men stayed out of it. 

When it comes to corporations having individual rights and the government mandating free chit... it's fair game. 

2014-03-27 2:08 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by Left Brain

I've always felt that when it comes to abortion and contraception for women we'd probably all be better served if men stayed out of it. 

When it comes to corporations having individual rights and the government mandating free chit... it's fair game. 

it isn't free chit, its covered in a healthcare system that is paid into.

also the corporations are people to thing is chit.



Edited by dmiller5 2014-03-27 2:09 PM
2014-03-27 2:09 PM
in reply to: 0

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by velocomp

This is where the ACA is a joke and doesn't work.  

1.  If the government wants everyone to have healthcare, then they should provide healthcare to all (via taxes, single payer system).

2.  If the government wants private companies to provide healthcare, then they can not mandate what the private company should cover.

3.  If a person works for a company that doesn't cover something that you fundamentally feel should be covered, then either you can 1.  Suck it up. 2. Get a different job or 3.  Go get your own insurance coverage for that thing.

 

Just my opinion...

not everyone can afford options 2 or 3

 

And why is that my responsibility. I can't afford a lot of the stuff I want.



Edited by powerman 2014-03-27 2:09 PM


2014-03-27 2:11 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by Left Brain

I've always felt that when it comes to abortion and contraception for women we'd probably all be better served if men stayed out of it. 

When it comes to corporations having individual rights and the government mandating free chit... it's fair game. 

it isn't free chit, its covered in a healthcare system that is paid into.

also the corporations are people to thing is chit.

 

It is provided at NO COST to the consumer.... that's free.

your last sentence didn't make sense. 



Edited by powerman 2014-03-27 2:11 PM
2014-03-27 2:11 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by velocomp

This is where the ACA is a joke and doesn't work.  

1.  If the government wants everyone to have healthcare, then they should provide healthcare to all (via taxes, single payer system).

2.  If the government wants private companies to provide healthcare, then they can not mandate what the private company should cover.

3.  If a person works for a company that doesn't cover something that you fundamentally feel should be covered, then either you can 1.  Suck it up. 2. Get a different job or 3.  Go get your own insurance coverage for that thing.

 

Just my opinion...

not everyone can afford options 2 or 3

 

And why is that my responsibility. I can't afford a lot of the stuff I want.

i guess it depends on your definition of want and need.  chemotherapy?  kind of a need.  viagra?  a want.  where does birth control fall?  i think for some people it really is a need, and some it's just a want.

2014-03-27 2:13 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Maryland
Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by Left Brain

I've always felt that when it comes to abortion and contraception for women we'd probably all be better served if men stayed out of it. 

When it comes to corporations having individual rights and the government mandating free chit... it's fair game. 

it isn't free chit, its covered in a healthcare system that is paid into.

also the corporations are people to thing is chit.

Good point, I guess I get a free triple bypass too. COMMUNSIM

 

It is provided at NO COST to the consumer.... that's free.

2014-03-27 2:13 PM
in reply to: mehaner

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by velocomp

This is where the ACA is a joke and doesn't work.  

1.  If the government wants everyone to have healthcare, then they should provide healthcare to all (via taxes, single payer system).

2.  If the government wants private companies to provide healthcare, then they can not mandate what the private company should cover.

3.  If a person works for a company that doesn't cover something that you fundamentally feel should be covered, then either you can 1.  Suck it up. 2. Get a different job or 3.  Go get your own insurance coverage for that thing.

 

Just my opinion...

not everyone can afford options 2 or 3

 

And why is that my responsibility. I can't afford a lot of the stuff I want.

i guess it depends on your definition of want and need.  chemotherapy?  kind of a need.  viagra?  a want.  where does birth control fall?  i think for some people it really is a need, and some it's just a want.

Orrrrrr.... what your definition of personal responsibility is.....

2014-03-27 2:14 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by Left Brain

I've always felt that when it comes to abortion and contraception for women we'd probably all be better served if men stayed out of it. 

When it comes to corporations having individual rights and the government mandating free chit... it's fair game. 

I don't think I agree with corporations having individual rights either....... maybe men should stay out of that too. 



2014-03-27 2:14 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Extreme Veteran
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2000100025
Maryland
Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by velocomp

This is where the ACA is a joke and doesn't work.  

1.  If the government wants everyone to have healthcare, then they should provide healthcare to all (via taxes, single payer system).

2.  If the government wants private companies to provide healthcare, then they can not mandate what the private company should cover.

3.  If a person works for a company that doesn't cover something that you fundamentally feel should be covered, then either you can 1.  Suck it up. 2. Get a different job or 3.  Go get your own insurance coverage for that thing.

 

Just my opinion...

not everyone can afford options 2 or 3

 

And why is that my responsibility. I can't afford a lot of the stuff I want.

because as a nation we have decided that we value taking care of the sick more than we value the rich having more money, or so I had thought until recently.

2014-03-27 2:16 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Champion
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the alamo city, Texas
Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by velocomp

This is where the ACA is a joke and doesn't work.  

1.  If the government wants everyone to have healthcare, then they should provide healthcare to all (via taxes, single payer system).

2.  If the government wants private companies to provide healthcare, then they can not mandate what the private company should cover.

3.  If a person works for a company that doesn't cover something that you fundamentally feel should be covered, then either you can 1.  Suck it up. 2. Get a different job or 3.  Go get your own insurance coverage for that thing.

 

Just my opinion...

not everyone can afford options 2 or 3

 

And why is that my responsibility. I can't afford a lot of the stuff I want.

i guess it depends on your definition of want and need.  chemotherapy?  kind of a need.  viagra?  a want.  where does birth control fall?  i think for some people it really is a need, and some it's just a want.

Orrrrrr.... what your definition of personal responsibility is.....

like LB said - maybe men should stick out of it.  hormonal birth control is prescribed for MANY MANY reasons besides "sluttiness" which is insulting to every woman out there that has ever taken a pill.

2014-03-27 2:16 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by Left Brain

I've always felt that when it comes to abortion and contraception for women we'd probably all be better served if men stayed out of it. 

When it comes to corporations having individual rights and the government mandating free chit... it's fair game. 

I don't think I agree with corporations having individual rights either....... maybe men should stay out of that too. 

Awesome.

2014-03-27 2:17 PM
in reply to: mehaner

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Extreme Veteran
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Maryland
Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by velocomp

This is where the ACA is a joke and doesn't work.  

1.  If the government wants everyone to have healthcare, then they should provide healthcare to all (via taxes, single payer system).

2.  If the government wants private companies to provide healthcare, then they can not mandate what the private company should cover.

3.  If a person works for a company that doesn't cover something that you fundamentally feel should be covered, then either you can 1.  Suck it up. 2. Get a different job or 3.  Go get your own insurance coverage for that thing.

 

Just my opinion...

not everyone can afford options 2 or 3

 

And why is that my responsibility. I can't afford a lot of the stuff I want.

i guess it depends on your definition of want and need.  chemotherapy?  kind of a need.  viagra?  a want.  where does birth control fall?  i think for some people it really is a need, and some it's just a want.

Orrrrrr.... what your definition of personal responsibility is.....

like LB said - maybe men should stick out of it.  hormonal birth control is prescribed for MANY MANY reasons besides "sluttiness" which is insulting to every woman out there that has ever taken a pill.

this.  Also, if you want to talk about a pill for sluttiness, Viagra much?

2014-03-27 2:18 PM
in reply to: mehaner

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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by velocomp

This is where the ACA is a joke and doesn't work.  

1.  If the government wants everyone to have healthcare, then they should provide healthcare to all (via taxes, single payer system).

2.  If the government wants private companies to provide healthcare, then they can not mandate what the private company should cover.

3.  If a person works for a company that doesn't cover something that you fundamentally feel should be covered, then either you can 1.  Suck it up. 2. Get a different job or 3.  Go get your own insurance coverage for that thing.

 

Just my opinion...

not everyone can afford options 2 or 3

 

And why is that my responsibility. I can't afford a lot of the stuff I want.

i guess it depends on your definition of want and need.  chemotherapy?  kind of a need.  viagra?  a want.  where does birth control fall?  i think for some people it really is a need, and some it's just a want.

Orrrrrr.... what your definition of personal responsibility is.....

like LB said - maybe men should stick out of it.  hormonal birth control is prescribed for MANY MANY reasons besides "sluttiness" which is insulting to every woman out there that has ever taken a pill.

Nah, that insinuates that "sluttiness" is a bad thing, which still allows men to put a judgement on it. I don't even want to give them that  



2014-03-27 2:19 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by velocomp

This is where the ACA is a joke and doesn't work.  

1.  If the government wants everyone to have healthcare, then they should provide healthcare to all (via taxes, single payer system).

2.  If the government wants private companies to provide healthcare, then they can not mandate what the private company should cover.

3.  If a person works for a company that doesn't cover something that you fundamentally feel should be covered, then either you can 1.  Suck it up. 2. Get a different job or 3.  Go get your own insurance coverage for that thing.

 

Just my opinion...

not everyone can afford options 2 or 3

 

And why is that my responsibility. I can't afford a lot of the stuff I want.

because as a nation we have decided that we value taking care of the sick more than we value the rich having more money, or so I had thought until recently.

Oh so now contraceptives are for "sick" people. Ya, OK. 

And we never decided as a country to take care of sick people. doctors did. We decided to take care of elderly and disabled so far... well, and indigent too. But nobody decided that "we" were going to take care of sick people. 

And when I get sick, I take care of myself. you have not done a single thing for me. If you would like to take care of my max out of pocket last year, I will be happy to give you an address you can send the check to. 

2014-03-27 2:23 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Champion
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the alamo city, Texas
Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by velocomp

This is where the ACA is a joke and doesn't work.  

1.  If the government wants everyone to have healthcare, then they should provide healthcare to all (via taxes, single payer system).

2.  If the government wants private companies to provide healthcare, then they can not mandate what the private company should cover.

3.  If a person works for a company that doesn't cover something that you fundamentally feel should be covered, then either you can 1.  Suck it up. 2. Get a different job or 3.  Go get your own insurance coverage for that thing.

 

Just my opinion...

not everyone can afford options 2 or 3

 

And why is that my responsibility. I can't afford a lot of the stuff I want.

because as a nation we have decided that we value taking care of the sick more than we value the rich having more money, or so I had thought until recently.

Oh so now contraceptives are for "sick" people. Ya, OK. 

And we never decided as a country to take care of sick people. doctors did. We decided to take care of elderly and disabled so far... well, and indigent too. But nobody decided that "we" were going to take care of sick people. 

And when I get sick, I take care of myself. you have not done a single thing for me. If you would like to take care of my max out of pocket last year, I will be happy to give you an address you can send the check to. 

if you make claims against your health insurance, dmiller having health insurance IS doing something for you.  he spreads the risk and cash flow around, as does everyone else.

as for your comments about hormonal BC being for sick people - until you have had fibroids or dysmenorrhea - you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

2014-03-27 2:23 PM
in reply to: mehaner

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Extreme Veteran
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Maryland
Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

my sister was put on it for a ovarian cyst, that seems medical

2014-03-27 2:24 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Deep in the Heart of Texas
Subject: RE: Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA

My problem is with having a general rule that government may require us to act as it dictates and liberty, religious in this case, is at best an exception to that rule.

As an individual, I no longer have the freedom to contract for my own health coverage.  The coverage in my policy is dictated by the Federal government and if I want a policy that does not qualify under the ACA, then I have to pay a penalty.  If my objection is because of my religious view, I will in essence pay a religious liberty tax.   

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