General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Group ride issue Rss Feed  
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2014-06-17 9:38 PM

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Bradenton, Florida
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Subject: Group ride issue
I'm currently spending a few weeks out of state and have found a really good group ride to hop in with. 20 to 30 riders, 30 to 40 miles at a 20 mph average with some sprints at the 26-28 mph range. So far I've been on 2 rides and am starting to figure out the sprint points. My issue is this, after I take my turn at the front, it such a long drop to the end of the line that I've managed to lose the last wheel on each of the rides. It's frustrating because I know I can handle the speed of the group, I just can't make the jump back to the last wheel once separation occurs. Any tricks/advice/do's or don'ts that would help. Thanks for any suggestions.


2014-06-17 10:17 PM
in reply to: cwpeters


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, California
Subject: RE: Group ride issue
I can't offer any help, but i'm jealous that I dont have group rides like that around here..
2014-06-17 10:31 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue
Soft pedal or coast back, fairly tight to the group if you are confident in your abilities and theirs, until you are 3-5 riders from the back and then start pedaling enough so that you are almost riding at the same speed. As the last rider goes by, a little more power to the pedals and tuck in.

Shane

Edited by gsmacleod 2014-06-17 10:33 PM
2014-06-18 12:44 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue
Or maybe your pull is a tad too long and your are a bit more gassed than you think. That is usually the case. You don't have to play Superman on the pulls, just do some work, slide back and follow Shane's advice to the letter and you will be rotating back up without any issue. You got this!
2014-06-18 6:55 AM
in reply to: cbr shadow

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Teaneck, New Jersey
Subject: RE: Group ride issue
In our group, the next to last person yells out "1 more", letting you know it's time to increase your speed to be able to tuck into the group.
2014-06-18 7:02 AM
in reply to: Todd13

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue
Originally posted by Todd13

Or maybe your pull is a tad too long and your are a bit more gassed than you think. That is usually the case. You don't have to play Superman on the pulls, just do some work, slide back and follow Shane's advice to the letter and you will be rotating back up without any issue. You got this!


x2 on this. Also don't completely cost but soft pedal to the back and keep and eye on the group so you know when to get over. Even if you misjudge it try your best to hang with the group even if you have to bridge up. It will make the group ride easier and more fun.


Don't pull until you are completely spent. Even if your pull is only 30 seconds you have done your part. If you fall of the back that is one more rider that can't contribute to the pulling.



2014-06-18 7:22 AM
in reply to: htodman

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue

Originally posted by htodman In our group, the next to last person yells out "1 more", letting you know it's time to increase your speed to be able to tuck into the group.
Lot's of good advise given.  In the group I sometimes ride with, the last person in the line says "last one".

2014-06-18 11:06 AM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue

 

Sounds like you are just slowing down too much to get to the back of the pack. You don't need to fall back immediately. Keep pedaling just let up a bit. As you get close to the back of the line put a little more into the pedals and get close to the speed of the pace line, then just slide right back on. 

No need to coast then hammer to get back on. It all comes with time. My first group ride experience was last year, I got dropped like a bad habit, killed myself and never did get back on. I spent the rest of last year learning to ride well in a group. Learning how long to pull, how and when to slip back, etc. A lot of it is learning your fellow riders as well, you will get used to your group and how everyone rides. You will get better with time and it will be more and more fun. 

2014-06-18 11:17 AM
in reply to: #5013891

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The Woodlands, TX
Subject: RE: Group ride issue
The way I look at it is my pull doesn't end when I peel off the front, it ends when I stick on the back. You never know what the person taking your place at the front is going to do. If they pick up the pace right around the time you're trying to get back on, it can take a serious sprint to get back on. I just started group rides last year, and it took me a couple months to really get a feel for this.
2014-06-18 11:29 AM
in reply to: cwpeters

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue

Here are some tips: 

http://www.active.com/cycling/articles/riding-in-a-paceline-is-a-basic-cycling-skill

Also don't come to a complete stall or use your brakes to move to the back of the paceline.  instead keep pedaling and very slowly make your way back.  this way there is no "jump" when you reach the back. 

2014-06-18 11:23 PM
in reply to: cwpeters

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue
It's a combination of two things… first, you're pulling too long, which means that you don't have the power left for the kick needed to drop back in. Second, you're dropping back with too little effort towards the end. You want to pull out, soft pedal a few seconds (just enough that it takes you to the back 3rd of the group) then pick the power back up so you are close to the speed of the last rider. Right before you drop all the way back, you need a short burst of power to allow you to slot in behind the last rider.

If you pull much more than 10-20 seconds, then you need to rethink the way you ride in a group.


2014-06-18 11:36 PM
in reply to: g_shotts

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue
I really appreciate all the insight. I think part of the problem is its been a 2 wide ride, so on the pulls I'm just matching the guy next to me. Have to stop that mindset and just do my 20-30 seconds then get off the front. The other thing that I know helped was someone calling out "3 wheels back" but that only happened once, so not going to count on that. I'll be back at it tomorrow afternoon and will report back on how it went.

Thanks again,

Chris
2014-06-19 5:58 AM
in reply to: cwpeters

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue
That's called a Belgian Chain, and for it to work properly, both should not drop off at the same time. If you have a counter clockwise rotation (which is dictated by road and wind conditions), the rider on the inside comes up and then moves to the left, and continues all the way to the back. Once there, you continue moving with the line towards the front. You never stay in one position though, it's a continuous motion. This is how you can build up a lot of speed in a group ride. If you sit in one position at any given point, you will cause a very jerky line and the risk for a crash much higher (you basically become unpredictable for the rest of the group).

If both drop at the same time, then it's a double pace line, basically, you drop to the left if you're on the outside and drop to the right if you're on the inside. The timing is then dictated by the "weaker" rider, never the stronger.
2014-06-19 8:49 AM
in reply to: audiojan

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue
Originally posted by audiojan

The timing is then dictated by the "weaker" rider, never the stronger.


This. Just announce "I'm done" (or some variant) to let the other person pulling know and then signal to the person behind you that you're pulling off.


2014-06-19 9:18 AM
in reply to: Goosedog

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue
Originally posted by Goosedog

Originally posted by audiojan

The timing is then dictated by the "weaker" rider, never the stronger.


This. Just announce "I'm done" (or some variant) to let the other person pulling know and then signal to the person behind you that you're pulling off.





Depends on the ride grade, though. If you're on a A drop ride, it's your fault if you can't hold pace, and you should fall off and take stock. That said, I've been roped into supposed B no-drop rides that turn into psycho A drops due to an over aggro MAMIL "leading" the charge.

Back to the OP, though, I find in most cases instead of soft pedaling, simply sitting tall for a couple seconds puts enough resistance to drop me back at a comfortable fade, and to sit back in to the tail I simply need to drop my head. Power and cadence stay the same, more continuity. YMMV.
2014-06-20 11:40 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Group ride issue
Well... lots of suggestions and... it helped... until mile 36.

During yesterday's ride we had the double pace line going for about the first 12 miles, then a few miles of "neutralized" recovery, followed by about 10 miles of single file pace line through a very curvy section of road (during which it rained and we were still maintaining 21-22), then another section of recovery and finally about 8 miles of the Belgium Chain. I held on as long as I could, made it 36 of the 38 with the group. I should have 3 more rides with them before I head home, so my goal now is to make it to the end. I finished the ride at 38 miles with a 20.9 mph average, so my 2nd goal is to get a 21+ mph average.

I was able to get a little background on this ride from a few of the more friendly cyclists. Originally were two separate rides, a "training race" that was the A drop group and a B no drop ride. However, due to some changes in ride leaders and fewer numbers in the summer, this has become an "AB psycho bust the group up" ride.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions.

Edited by cwpeters 2014-06-20 11:41 AM


2014-06-20 8:46 PM
in reply to: cwpeters


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Subject: RE: Group ride issue
One more important factor. It is important to know who is in front of you and who is behind you in the ine paceline...especially behind.

If the person behind you tends to ramp up the speed, dont get behind that person. Youd be better off behind a weaker rider who will keep the pace steady or even drop it a few.
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