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2014-07-02 12:20 PM

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Subject: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
At this point, my children's schedules make it impractical for them to get formal self-defense training. But, I think they (my sons especially, but my daughter, too) should know basic self-defense- hand position, proper punching technique etc.. I'm not trying to offend any pacifists, but there are a lot of clowns out there who like to pick on adolescents, so thus my inquiry. Does anyone do any such stuff with their kids, recommend any tapes or exercises? I figure if they safely start out with the speed bag and SAFELY learn how to use the heavy bag, it's a good start, but I'd hate to start showing them poor technique. I know there are some boxers and martial arts people here and I'm curious what people might recommend.. thanks


2014-07-02 12:23 PM
in reply to: ried0428

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

Just curious.....how old are they?

2014-07-02 12:29 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
boy 14, girl 13, boy 12.

Very athletic (thin)- competitive in a lot of sports which is why the time factor precludes them from attending a regular class.
2014-07-02 12:41 PM
in reply to: ried0428

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

I taught mine to RUN!!  Seriously...teach them what trouble looks like, and how to get away from it.  It's just more practical since they aren't going to beat up any adults anyway but can outrun almost all of them..  I understand your concern for your kids safety......but the best way to keep them safe is not to teach them to fight at that age. In case you're wondering, I'm NO pacifist, just a realist.  If someone tried to hurt one of your kids and couldn't catch them I would have no problem if you hunted them down and beat the living hell out of them.

2014-07-02 2:32 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
great advice and I agree with ALL parts of your post. And, I've told them if they every learned something and used it to bully someone,they will pay very dearly. And I have also told them, the best fight they can ever have is to avoid a fight. But, still I know from experience where I grew up and still live (in NYC), there are times when someone will corner you and cannot run. I just want them to be prepared when all else fails, and I agree all else. Nothing but trouble follows a fight. And, nowadays especially, you don't know what someone will do which is why your advice to figure out what trouble looks and then do what you can to avoid it, is easily the best advice.
2014-07-02 7:15 PM
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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
I teach kids and adults. I started 11 years ago with my daughter and got hooked (<<). I have done MMA and teach MMA, grappling, kickboxing, and Taekwondo.

I recommend a good grappling class like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Sambo, or MMA. Most fights end up on the ground. Also, it is good for girls to be able to defend themselves on the ground.

You can learn a little from videos, but you really need to learn good technique and the physics behind it. Look for someone that really teaches - not a cookie cutter class or a McDojo. There are a lot of schools that have some fairly accommodating hours.

The best school would be one that teaches multiple disciplines.

Everyone should know how to defend themselves. The confidence instilled actually helps prevent altercations. Most thugs pick on the weak - not the strong.

Edited by volfireman07 2014-07-02 7:16 PM


2014-07-03 5:51 PM
in reply to: volfireman07

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
I don't think learning how to box a little will help much in a street fight. I doubt the style you put them in matters much, but get some recommendations from people in your area, most places allow you to try out classes for a bit. FWIW I would suggest finding an adult dojo that impresses you with the quality and enthusiasm of their students. It is those students and instructors that will be teaching your children.
2014-07-05 4:13 PM
in reply to: volfireman07

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
I extensively researched and am very happy with my son's school.

http://www.exceljiujitsu.com/

2014-07-08 6:35 AM
in reply to: eabeam

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

I'm a little late to the party, but I wan to echo what LB said for them to run.  The number one self defense tool for a kid is their feet, number two is their voice (screaming), and number 3 is their cell phone.

I do think it's important for kids to learn self defense for those situations where running is not an option or they're in the grasp.  As LB mentioned, once an adult has them in their grasp it's virtually impossible for them to do anything, but they should still have the confidence to try.

I had a good friend back in my Navy days who taught real world self defense and his first rule was that you had to change your mindset when it comes to conflict.  In the US, we're all taught to fight fair.  No pulling hair, no kicking down there, etc, but in a real world life or death situation the last thing you want to do is fight fair.  I tell my kids if some dude grabs them without hesitation their left thumb should be in the back of his eye socket and the right hand should be twisting his nuts into a pretzel.

When searching for a self defense class, their are those stupid classes where you stand in front of somebody and they punch at you and you block it and then do a 2 punch combo with a kick.  pff, yeah right like that's ever going to happen in the real world.

The class needs to be real world based with MMA type grappling or jiu jitsu type stuff.  There's a local class I've sent all my kids to that teaches these types of skills which are great for anyone at any age to know.  However, the class spends the majority of their time teaching them situational awareness to prevent them from getting into an altercation in the first place.  99.9% of self defense is not being in a place where you need to defend yourself.

LB will laugh at me, but each of my kids have pepper spray on their keychains as well.  It's pretty much the only self defense tool they can legally carry and I know it's not very likely to help much, but it's just another tool they can use if it comes to that.

2014-07-08 7:30 AM
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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
I teach my kids how to break away if some one grabs an arm or tries to pull them somewhere by knowing the weak points of the grab, then they are to run. It is not an offensive move at all but a way to keep safe.
2014-07-08 10:41 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

Originally posted by tuwood

LB will laugh at me, but each of my kids have pepper spray on their keychains as well.  It's pretty much the only self defense tool they can legally carry and I know it's not very likely to help much, but it's just another tool they can use if it comes to that.

Naw...pepper spray is an awesome weapon....I haven't seen many people fight through it.  I'm not giving my kids anything they can potentially use on me.



2014-07-08 1:11 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
My son does Karate but in reality if he gets in a fight at school he gets suspended or expelled so fights don't seem to be as prevalent as when I was a kid when my Dad taught me how to defend myself. I assume that is the case we are talking about here is at school so fighting there is VERY impractical. If it's off campus and a mugging then just give the person your money. You never know who is carrying a weapon and a desperate person will stab you for $4.

Let's be honest here but punching a heavy bag is VERY different than fighting in real life. To do it right you need to actually spar and have punches and kicks coming at you so you know how to react. Punching a bag is great but it don't punch back so when you actually get in a fight and someone lands one on your head then you don't know what to do.

I'm not telling you that you shouldn't do it OP but make sure you are doing it right and for the right reasons. Are you glorifying it to them and encouraging them to go out and start fights and bully?

At my son's karate studio the work on a lot of "defensive" stances to start blocking and try to get away and avoid the fight if possible. That should be stressed that walk away if you can and it takes a big man to do that sometimes.

The joys of parenthood.
2014-07-08 1:21 PM
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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

Originally posted by Jtiger My son does Karate but in reality if he gets in a fight at school he gets suspended or expelled so fights don't seem to be as prevalent as when I was a kid when my Dad taught me how to defend myself. I assume that is the case we are talking about here is at school so fighting there is VERY impractical. If it's off campus and a mugging then just give the person your money. You never know who is carrying a weapon and a desperate person will stab you for $4. Let's be honest here but punching a heavy bag is VERY different than fighting in real life. To do it right you need to actually spar and have punches and kicks coming at you so you know how to react. Punching a bag is great but it don't punch back so when you actually get in a fight and someone lands one on your head then you don't know what to do. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't do it OP but make sure you are doing it right and for the right reasons. Are you glorifying it to them and encouraging them to go out and start fights and bully? At my son's karate studio the work on a lot of "defensive" stances to start blocking and try to get away and avoid the fight if possible. That should be stressed that walk away if you can and it takes a big man to do that sometimes. The joys of parenthood.

Haha!  Remember the days when you didn't dare come home and tell your dad you got beat up because you knew damn well he'd make you go back for more?  LOL

It was more fun to be a kid back then.

2014-07-08 1:35 PM
in reply to: Jtiger

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

I earned a black belt and studied various forms and even taught a little myself.  I was SURE I would teach my kids everything I could when/if I have them.  I think my views have changed a bit on that some.

I probably can't help but to play around and show them some Jiu Jitsu but I'm thinking striking is out...

I sort of been putting it in the same camp as concealed carry for adults.  Here you have a perfectly good tool to defend yourself (gun for adults or fighting skills for kids) and you are NOT supposed to use them unless it's your last option?  Of course the advocates would say that a responsible gun owner or child with fighting skills would be able to, under pressure, determine that there are NO other options before pulling out the best and most practical tool out of their bag of tricks.

I guess I don't see that many people with that kind of discipline and restraint.  Probably only the professionally trained such as military and/or law enforcement.  Your every day kid/adult with those tools would probably use them WAY too fast during an incident.

Who is a 12yr old going to use a rear naked choke on besides friends/peers?  A full grown adult during an abduction or attempted assault?  No way.  Giving someone those kinds of skills with no REAL application for them could be asking for trouble because they WILL use them on such as the neighbor kid during a school yard scuffle.

If you have a nail to drive, and a hammer in your back pocket, even if you were told NOT to use the hammer, how many people are going to look for any other way to drive that nail?  Get a stick?  Use a rock?  Freeze a water in a can and use that?  You got a freaking HAMMER!  I find it very hard to believe that most people, under the pressure of conflict, can refrain from using the most practical tool in there possession.  If ALL they know is run/scream find an adult, that's what they would default to, which is also the most practical, IMO. 

 

 

2014-07-08 1:42 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

Originally posted by Left Brain

I taught mine to RUN!!  Seriously...teach them what trouble looks like, and how to get away from it.  It's just more practical since they aren't going to beat up any adults anyway but can outrun almost all of them..  I understand your concern for your kids safety......but the best way to keep them safe is not to teach them to fight at that age. In case you're wondering, I'm NO pacifist, just a realist.  If someone tried to hurt one of your kids and couldn't catch them I would have no problem if you hunted them down and beat the living hell out of them.

Not gonna lie, it would be comical seeing someone trying to chase down "Jr."

Would they make it two blocks before passing out?

2014-07-08 1:44 PM
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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

Marathon Man?

 

Is it safe?



Edited by Kido 2014-07-08 1:54 PM


2014-07-08 1:47 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Jtiger My son does Karate but in reality if he gets in a fight at school he gets suspended or expelled so fights don't seem to be as prevalent as when I was a kid when my Dad taught me how to defend myself. I assume that is the case we are talking about here is at school so fighting there is VERY impractical. If it's off campus and a mugging then just give the person your money. You never know who is carrying a weapon and a desperate person will stab you for $4. Let's be honest here but punching a heavy bag is VERY different than fighting in real life. To do it right you need to actually spar and have punches and kicks coming at you so you know how to react. Punching a bag is great but it don't punch back so when you actually get in a fight and someone lands one on your head then you don't know what to do. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't do it OP but make sure you are doing it right and for the right reasons. Are you glorifying it to them and encouraging them to go out and start fights and bully? At my son's karate studio the work on a lot of "defensive" stances to start blocking and try to get away and avoid the fight if possible. That should be stressed that walk away if you can and it takes a big man to do that sometimes. The joys of parenthood.

Haha!  Remember the days when you didn't dare come home and tell your dad you got beat up because you knew damn well he'd make you go back for more?  LOL

It was more fun to be a kid back then.




Well times have changed!

I say this as both a martial artist and a public school adminsitrator.

I just had the acceptable use of martial arts discussion with my son last night. It went something like this.

" If you and kids are wrestling and fooling around, positional dominance only... no submissions.
If a kid is really trying to fight you, positional dominance and chokes only.... no joint locks, I don't want to get sued for a broken limb or dislocation.
If someone is truly hurting you and this is full self-defense, you do whatever it takes. And remember, there is no tapping out or rules in the street, the submission does not end until they snap or sleep."

He is just starting mma, and I saw his punches... so there will be no striking conversation for awhile.

My conversation with my parents at this age, "I better not find out you threw the first punch."

In Southern California, we are looking at a world where there are no school fights anymore. There are only crimes.

In working class or poor neighborhoods, fights in Middle School and High School will most likely end up with police involvement. Even a mutual combat that connot be considered assault may end up with a public disturbance citation and court date. They don't care, because the goal is to get you in a juvenile probation review. This actually has the unintended consequences of forcing fights off campus where there is lower chance of adult intervention and higher odds of weapons and real assaults.

In the more affluent neighborhoods, there is a very strong chance that any kid on the losing end will sue the school and the other family.

This is not an exaggeration, but I not willing to risk violating confidentiality to tell you true stories.


2014-07-08 1:56 PM
in reply to: eabeam

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

Originally posted by eabeam
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Jtiger My son does Karate but in reality if he gets in a fight at school he gets suspended or expelled so fights don't seem to be as prevalent as when I was a kid when my Dad taught me how to defend myself. I assume that is the case we are talking about here is at school so fighting there is VERY impractical. If it's off campus and a mugging then just give the person your money. You never know who is carrying a weapon and a desperate person will stab you for $4. Let's be honest here but punching a heavy bag is VERY different than fighting in real life. To do it right you need to actually spar and have punches and kicks coming at you so you know how to react. Punching a bag is great but it don't punch back so when you actually get in a fight and someone lands one on your head then you don't know what to do. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't do it OP but make sure you are doing it right and for the right reasons. Are you glorifying it to them and encouraging them to go out and start fights and bully? At my son's karate studio the work on a lot of "defensive" stances to start blocking and try to get away and avoid the fight if possible. That should be stressed that walk away if you can and it takes a big man to do that sometimes. The joys of parenthood.

Haha!  Remember the days when you didn't dare come home and tell your dad you got beat up because you knew damn well he'd make you go back for more?  LOL

It was more fun to be a kid back then.

Well times have changed! I say this as both a martial artist and a public school adminsitrator. I just had the acceptable use of martial arts discussion with my son last night. It went something like this. " If you and kids are wrestling and fooling around, positional dominance only... no submissions. If a kid is really trying to fight you, positional dominance and chokes only.... no joint locks, I don't want to get sued for a broken limb or dislocation. If someone is truly hurting you and this is full self-defense, you do whatever it takes. And remember, there is no tapping out or rules in the street, the submission does not end until they snap or sleep." He is just starting mma, and I saw his punches... so there will be no striking conversation for awhile. My conversation with my parents at this age, "I better not find out you threw the first punch." In Southern California, we are looking at a world where there are no school fights anymore. There are only crimes. In working class or poor neighborhoods, fights in Middle School and High School will most likely end up with police involvement. Even a mutual combat that connot be considered assault may end up with a public disturbance citation and court date. They don't care, because the goal is to get you in a juvenile probation review. This actually has the unintended consequences of forcing fights off campus where there is lower chance of adult intervention and higher odds of weapons and real assaults. In the more affluent neighborhoods, there is a very strong chance that any kid on the losing end will sue the school and the other family. This is not an exaggeration, but I not willing to risk violating confidentiality to tell you true stories.

My kid has been suspended from school twice (both in Middle School).  Both times the administrators said he didn't start it and was defending himself....once, admittedly, he "defended" himself a bit too far. 

I took him fishing both times. 

 

Of course, you are right eabeam, that's where we are with fighting in school as far as schools are concerned.  But I'm never going to care if my kids defend themselves, and I'm never going to worry that they will be expelled from school for defending themselves.  I deal with school fighting on the law enforcement end.....the courts, in ANY proceeding, civil or criminal, still uphold the right to defend oneself......school's won't ever get around that, no matter what rules they think they will adhere to or apply.

2014-07-09 3:19 AM
in reply to: ried0428

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
The kids did two years of karate, because I figured that it was better then nothing. These days they are instructed to look out for each other, and to run if possible, fight without rules if needed. As I explained to them, there is no such thing as a "fair fight". When they get older, about 15-16, I plan for them to learn Israeli Krav Maga, either by me, if necessary, but I prefer with some other instructor. I'm waiting till they get older because Krav Maga takes what it can from other disciplines, and then adds in every dirty trick possible. Way too easy to do damage, and I want their judgement to, ah, "mature" a bit before they learn it.
2014-07-09 12:02 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
Originally posted by Left Brain

My kid has been suspended from school twice (both in Middle School).  Both times the administrators said he didn't start it and was defending himself....once, admittedly, he "defended" himself a bit too far. 

I took him fishing both times. 

 

Of course, you are right eabeam, that's where we are with fighting in school as far as schools are concerned.  But I'm never going to care if my kids defend themselves, and I'm never going to worry that they will be expelled from school for defending themselves.  I deal with school fighting on the law enforcement end.....the courts, in ANY proceeding, civil or criminal, still uphold the right to defend oneself......school's won't ever get around that, no matter what rules they think they will adhere to or apply.




I agree, but the limits are skewed here at least in CA, where we don't have a "stand your ground" mentality.

It is extremely hard to claim self-defense out here unless you have show an almost true 100% victim.
60-40, 70-30, 80-20 all definitely don't cut it.

If you do anything that contributed to the conflict, rejected any opportunity to flee, to did any physical move that appears to be offensive... they will take self-defense off of the table. It is hard to find a middle school kid or high school kid that did not have at least one witnessed verbal comment that they can go after for contributing to the "inciting pupil unrest"

Again, they may not get a "petition to sustain" (juvenile version of guilty verdict), but they push for plea out for a minor probation.... say 6 weeks.
Then, in that time, they get in the kids business. The ones that stay out of trouble, get good grades, have perfect school attendance, and don't get picked up for anything else will get released. Everyone else will have their probation extended until they either violate or become adults.

Then again, I worked in schools where I have had more students arrested for murder that have escaped suspension for self-defense.

2014-07-09 12:10 PM
in reply to: eabeam

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

Originally posted by eabeam
Originally posted by Left Brain

My kid has been suspended from school twice (both in Middle School).  Both times the administrators said he didn't start it and was defending himself....once, admittedly, he "defended" himself a bit too far. 

I took him fishing both times. 

 

Of course, you are right eabeam, that's where we are with fighting in school as far as schools are concerned.  But I'm never going to care if my kids defend themselves, and I'm never going to worry that they will be expelled from school for defending themselves.  I deal with school fighting on the law enforcement end.....the courts, in ANY proceeding, civil or criminal, still uphold the right to defend oneself......school's won't ever get around that, no matter what rules they think they will adhere to or apply.

I agree, but the limits are skewed here at least in CA, where we don't have a "stand your ground" mentality. It is extremely hard to claim self-defense out here unless you have show an almost true 100% victim. 60-40, 70-30, 80-20 all definitely don't cut it. If you do anything that contributed to the conflict, rejected any opportunity to flee, to did any physical move that appears to be offensive... they will take self-defense off of the table. It is hard to find a middle school kid or high school kid that did not have at least one witnessed verbal comment that they can go after for contributing to the "inciting pupil unrest" Again, they may not get a "petition to sustain" (juvenile version of guilty verdict), but they push for plea out for a minor probation.... say 6 weeks. Then, in that time, they get in the kids business. The ones that stay out of trouble, get good grades, have perfect school attendance, and don't get picked up for anything else will get released. Everyone else will have their probation extended until they either violate or become adults. Then again, I worked in schools where I have had more students arrested for murder that have escaped suspension for self-defense.

Yep......we haven't fallen that far off the table here in the Midwest.  If you punch someone here and get your arse whipped because of it we're still looking the other way...except in the schools. But even there, it's a precarious line to walk because the general public wants their kids to defend themselves....and like I said, the courts back that up.



2014-07-09 1:13 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

Originally posted by Left Brain

I taught mine to RUN!!  Seriously...teach them what trouble looks like, and how to get away from it.  It's just more practical since they aren't going to beat up any adults anyway but can outrun almost all of them..  I understand your concern for your kids safety......but the best way to keep them safe is not to teach them to fight at that age. In case you're wondering, I'm NO pacifist, just a realist.  If someone tried to hurt one of your kids and couldn't catch them I would have no problem if you hunted them down and beat the living hell out of them.

I agree but there's also a difference in usage.  Martial arts for sport versus fighting for your life.  The sporting aspect can be great for keeping kids engaged in a healthy activity and out of trouble.

For their age, it's a perfect time to start training if they show an interest.  Like many other sports, (*cough* swimming) it's better if you pick it up when you're young.  In martial arts, a kid who is still growing will gain flexibility that can be very difficult to achieve for an adult who never trained.

2014-07-09 1:20 PM
in reply to: eabeam

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

Originally posted by eabeam
Originally posted by Left Brain

My kid has been suspended from school twice (both in Middle School).  Both times the administrators said he didn't start it and was defending himself....once, admittedly, he "defended" himself a bit too far. 

I took him fishing both times. 

 

Of course, you are right eabeam, that's where we are with fighting in school as far as schools are concerned.  But I'm never going to care if my kids defend themselves, and I'm never going to worry that they will be expelled from school for defending themselves.  I deal with school fighting on the law enforcement end.....the courts, in ANY proceeding, civil or criminal, still uphold the right to defend oneself......school's won't ever get around that, no matter what rules they think they will adhere to or apply.

I agree, but the limits are skewed here at least in CA, where we don't have a "stand your ground" mentality. It is extremely hard to claim self-defense out here unless you have show an almost true 100% victim. 60-40, 70-30, 80-20 all definitely don't cut it. If you do anything that contributed to the conflict, rejected any opportunity to flee, to did any physical move that appears to be offensive... they will take self-defense off of the table. It is hard to find a middle school kid or high school kid that did not have at least one witnessed verbal comment that they can go after for contributing to the "inciting pupil unrest" Again, they may not get a "petition to sustain" (juvenile version of guilty verdict), but they push for plea out for a minor probation.... say 6 weeks. Then, in that time, they get in the kids business. The ones that stay out of trouble, get good grades, have perfect school attendance, and don't get picked up for anything else will get released. Everyone else will have their probation extended until they either violate or become adults. Then again, I worked in schools where I have had more students arrested for murder that have escaped suspension for self-defense.

I'm not a psychologist, but taking things to this extreme just doesn't seem healthy to me.  Kids are still kids and bullies are going to be bullies, so it seems like they're just taking it to different places such as cyber bullying and who knows what else.  If somebody gets pushed and pushed and pushed and the "system" gives them no possible way to release the anger rage in a fight or whatever, then it seems like we're indirectly encouraging them to let it build up until it's really bad.  Sometimes the best thing to fix a bully problem is to have somebody put that bully on his behind.

I'm not saying no fights allowed is the cause of kids shooting up a school but it seems to me that not allowing kids a less harmful method to get the steam out can't be a good thing.

Similar to LB I always told my kids to stand up for themselves and their friends.  They will never get punished for doing the right thing by us and I'll fight all the way to the supreme court to defend them if they get in any legal trouble for it.

2014-07-09 1:27 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

I taught mine to RUN!!  Seriously...teach them what trouble looks like, and how to get away from it.  It's just more practical since they aren't going to beat up any adults anyway but can outrun almost all of them..  I understand your concern for your kids safety......but the best way to keep them safe is not to teach them to fight at that age. In case you're wondering, I'm NO pacifist, just a realist.  If someone tried to hurt one of your kids and couldn't catch them I would have no problem if you hunted them down and beat the living hell out of them.

I agree but there's also a difference in usage.  Martial arts for sport versus fighting for your life.  The sporting aspect can be great for keeping kids engaged in a healthy activity and out of trouble.

For their age, it's a perfect time to start training if they show an interest.  Like many other sports, (*cough* swimming) it's better if you pick it up when you're young.  In martial arts, a kid who is still growing will gain flexibility that can be very difficult to achieve for an adult who never trained.

And I agree with that.  Jr. took Tae Kwon Do for 4 years when he was a little guy.  It was back when our lives revolved around the YMCA and they actually had a really good instructor there.  I doubt he could use much of it today, but he knows how to throw a punch.  I think he got a green belt, or maybe orange....he had fun with it.  Like you said, it was all a part of us keeping our kids active, they got to choose what they did.

 

2014-07-10 12:21 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: anyone train their kids in self-defense?
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by eabeam
Originally posted by Left Brain

My kid has been suspended from school twice (both in Middle School).  Both times the administrators said he didn't start it and was defending himself....once, admittedly, he "defended" himself a bit too far. 

I took him fishing both times. 

 

Of course, you are right eabeam, that's where we are with fighting in school as far as schools are concerned.  But I'm never going to care if my kids defend themselves, and I'm never going to worry that they will be expelled from school for defending themselves.  I deal with school fighting on the law enforcement end.....the courts, in ANY proceeding, civil or criminal, still uphold the right to defend oneself......school's won't ever get around that, no matter what rules they think they will adhere to or apply.

I agree, but the limits are skewed here at least in CA, where we don't have a "stand your ground" mentality. It is extremely hard to claim self-defense out here unless you have show an almost true 100% victim. 60-40, 70-30, 80-20 all definitely don't cut it. If you do anything that contributed to the conflict, rejected any opportunity to flee, to did any physical move that appears to be offensive... they will take self-defense off of the table. It is hard to find a middle school kid or high school kid that did not have at least one witnessed verbal comment that they can go after for contributing to the "inciting pupil unrest" Again, they may not get a "petition to sustain" (juvenile version of guilty verdict), but they push for plea out for a minor probation.... say 6 weeks. Then, in that time, they get in the kids business. The ones that stay out of trouble, get good grades, have perfect school attendance, and don't get picked up for anything else will get released. Everyone else will have their probation extended until they either violate or become adults. Then again, I worked in schools where I have had more students arrested for murder that have escaped suspension for self-defense.

I'm not a psychologist, but taking things to this extreme just doesn't seem healthy to me.  Kids are still kids and bullies are going to be bullies, so it seems like they're just taking it to different places such as cyber bullying and who knows what else.  If somebody gets pushed and pushed and pushed and the "system" gives them no possible way to release the anger rage in a fight or whatever, then it seems like we're indirectly encouraging them to let it build up until it's really bad.  Sometimes the best thing to fix a bully problem is to have somebody put that bully on his behind.

I'm not saying no fights allowed is the cause of kids shooting up a school but it seems to me that not allowing kids a less harmful method to get the steam out can't be a good thing.

Similar to LB I always told my kids to stand up for themselves and their friends.  They will never get punished for doing the right thing by us and I'll fight all the way to the supreme court to defend them if they get in any legal trouble for it.




In the end, I am less concerned about the legal issues... although I am concerned.

I am more concerned that the likelihood of a playground fight being just a playground fight is not favorable.
You never know who has a weapon, who has a crazy parent willing to put an 8 year old in the hospital themselves, etc.
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