IMLP gave me a DNF, advice?
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2014-08-01 8:48 AM |
Veteran 379 | Subject: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? I did IMLP on Sunday. despite overwhelming evidence of my having done the race start to finish, they are not crediting me with such - video, tracking, pictures, all show me on the course. Has anyone else had this problem at an IM race? how do you get someone to give me a better resolution then changing DNS to DNF? Edited by sheesleeva 2014-08-01 9:04 AM |
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2014-08-01 9:07 AM in reply to: sheesleeva |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Might not be what you want to hear, but I suggest patience. The race was just a few days ago and it was a huge logistical nightmare for WTC. I gotta believe they'll do the right thing by you. |
2014-08-01 9:13 AM in reply to: sheesleeva |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Originally posted by sheesleeva I did IMLP on Sunday. despite overwhelming evidence of my having done the race start to finish, they are not crediting me with such - video, tracking, pictures, all show me on the course. Has anyone else had this problem at an IM race? how do you get someone to give me a better resolution then changing DNS to DNF? What do you mean by DNS? Do they think you didn't start or didn't finish or what? |
2014-08-01 10:02 AM in reply to: brucemorgan |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Originally posted by brucemorgan Originally posted by sheesleeva I did IMLP on Sunday. despite overwhelming evidence of my having done the race start to finish, they are not crediting me with such - video, tracking, pictures, all show me on the course. Has anyone else had this problem at an IM race? how do you get someone to give me a better resolution then changing DNS to DNF? What do you mean by DNS? Do they think you didn't start or didn't finish or what? She edited her post and it's not as clear now. They originally had her as a DNS, then changed her to DNF. |
2014-08-01 10:12 AM in reply to: sheesleeva |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Originally posted by sheesleeva I did IMLP on Sunday. despite overwhelming evidence of my having done the race start to finish, they are not crediting me with such - video, tracking, pictures, all show me on the course. Has anyone else had this problem at an IM race? how do you get someone to give me a better resolution then changing DNS to DNF? Is there a finish photo/video of you? Seems like the issue isn't whether you started or were on the course, but whether you finished under the time cut. If there's a photo of you finishing the race, wouldn't the clock be visible in the photo? |
2014-08-01 10:30 AM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Expert 3126 Boise, ID | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? |
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2014-08-01 10:48 AM in reply to: Aarondb4 |
Member 159 Fairfax, VA | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Originally posted by Aarondb4
Do all of your time splits show on the results? I tracked her all day through the IMtrackr app. It showed me reasonable splits for her swim (lap 1.. lap 2 was of course messed up), T1, all the bike splits, T2, and the first few run splits. Then, her mile 16(?) split showed her going 27 min/mi, her final split (mi 25?) showed her going about 4 min/mi, and there was no finish time on that app. She did send me a link to the video that shows her crossing the finish line somewhere in the 14th hour (I think.. can't find the link anymore). Apparently, the race listed her as DNS, and after she complained and showed them the screen captures I sent her with her splits, they changed her results to DNF. All that said, before I started using the IMtrackr app on Sunday, I did try to track her on the Ironman page, and it could not find her (looked her up by name and by bib #). I just checked the official results and they are showing lap 1 of the swim, and her bike total (same times as IMtrackr has) but no run, and DNF for finish. |
2014-08-01 11:05 AM in reply to: Aarondb4 |
Veteran 379 | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? sorry about the confusion, I was editing a typo then had a little emergency with the dogs chasing cows that should not have been in the yard, so I was interrupted mid-edit. anyway, here's what happened. I was trackable throughout most of the race. -- although I was one of the swim aborts, I came back in under the timing mat exiting the swim, so I had a time for both loops (unlike those that had to run down the road and missed the mat). so my swim time registered as 1:20 and I had a transition time. during the bike, all was tracking, T2, tracked, and the running was tracking. at some point when I was out on the run, someone went in and deleted second loop of my swim time and my T1 time. It appears this happened while I was on the run as my slow but steady 14 min mile run turned into a 25 minute mile, then a 4:10 minute mile pace at mile 25 of the run. (I suspect they were in the data base while I went over the second to the last timing mat, so when they got out of the database, those who went over the second to the last timer, then registered all at once, hence, an extra 10 minutes to my miles, but then it correctly measured mile 25, but with the second to the last spot registering late, it through off mile 25 splits). I crossed the finish line, they took my chip, snapped a pic, and you can see the video of me crossing the finish line, and a pic of crossing with the timing chip on. After the race, on the official results page, I was listed as DNS with no times whatsoever, no swim, no bike, no run. As of Tuesday, I was still listed as DNS so I emailed them asking them to check into it. They then changed the DNS to DNF and gave me swim and bike splits, but listed me no run time. Since then, it has remained DNF. I agree, the race was only a week ago so they have tons to do, but I am concerned about just letting it sit when they did go adjust my time - from DNS to DNF and threw in some splits. Someone clearly took a look and made adjustments, but did not do the adjustments correctly. I don't want them to mark it as resolved, close the books, and call it good, then I'm stuck with the DNF because I didn't find the right person to override what the DNF person did. |
2014-08-01 11:06 AM in reply to: jenstewey |
Expert 3126 Boise, ID | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? |
2014-08-01 11:08 AM in reply to: sheesleeva |
Member 1083 | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? I know nothing but this sounds like it will work out. You did the race. Just keep following up with them. |
2014-08-01 11:27 AM in reply to: sheesleeva |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? You should email the timing company. The women from timing company posts on ST (sportstat I think is her screen name on ST) frequently when issues arise. She was the one sharing what was happening timing wise on race day. She has her ways and figures out timing issues. She has helped DQ folks who ST called out for cutting the course (not that I am implying you did this just I have sen how through they are including use of photos or videos) . They have more ways to track athletes than we know and she investigates them all. She will straighten it out and correct your time Deb. |
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2014-08-01 1:05 PM in reply to: sheesleeva |
928 | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? I suspect they have a lot of issues going on because of cutting the swim. I would write a letter very clearly and explain what happened and what data you have. It will be corrected, I'm sure. |
2014-08-01 1:17 PM in reply to: KathyG |
Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Originally posted by KathyG You should email the timing company. The women from timing company posts on ST (sportstat I think is her screen name on ST) frequently when issues arise. She was the one sharing what was happening timing wise on race day. She has her ways and figures out timing issues. She has helped DQ folks who ST called out for cutting the course (not that I am implying you did this just I have sen how through they are including use of photos or videos) . They have more ways to track athletes than we know and she investigates them all. She will straighten it out and correct your time Deb. This. If it's a North American IM, then SportsStats likely did the timing, and they will listen to your situation, investigate, and follow up with you in a timely manner if you contact them. They do make mistakes from time to time, but they are correctable. Unfortunately, none of us at BT can do anything. Congrats on your race at IMLP. |
2014-08-01 1:29 PM in reply to: sheesleeva |
Champion 7547 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? I'd recommend sending a letter, not just an e-mail to the race director. In the letter, provide as much evidence as you can to help them out. Bib number, approximate split times, distinguishing apparel and information from race pics. Yes, it's a lot of work, but the easier you make it for them to zero in on the data in the timing records, the greater the chance they resolve it in your favor. Also in the letter, request a formal response in a reasonable amount of time (I don't know what you and they might consider reasonable, but I'd hope they can reply within 30 days.)
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2014-08-01 1:49 PM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Originally posted by McFuzz I'd recommend sending a letter, not just an e-mail to the race director. In the letter, provide as much evidence as you can to help them out. Bib number, approximate split times, distinguishing apparel and information from race pics. Yes, it's a lot of work, but the easier you make it for them to zero in on the data in the timing records, the greater the chance they resolve it in your favor. Also in the letter, request a formal response in a reasonable amount of time (I don't know what you and they might consider reasonable, but I'd hope they can reply within 30 days.)
In the case of a big race like IMPL, the race director will defer the letter to the timing company, so I'd cut out the middle man and contact Sportstats directly or at least send the letter/email to both the RD and Sportstats at the same time. It was a DNF, not a DQ...so it has nothing to do with a rules violation, in which case the race director or head official may need to get involved. Sportstats is a HUGE timing company. They take these things seriously. http://www.sportstats.ca/ Edited by Jason N 2014-08-01 1:50 PM |
2014-08-01 2:02 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Veteran 379 | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? thanks all for the advice - I'm on it! written letter it is. as I said, I just want to be sure that it doesn't get case closed if I don't follow up in all the ways I should. as an interesting aside, couple years ago I did a marathon, those of us who knew we could finish under 4 hours 30 minutes were allowed to start an hour before the pros. (the winner caught me at mile 13), but when we finished, they had not taken into account that extra hour so rather than 4:10 I had 3:10 finish time. we were even given finishers certificates with that time. I did point it out to them rather than go register for Boston. They then changed it to 4:10. I didn't look again for a year plus. in the interim it was changed to 4:10 for a half marathon and it is now part of my record as a 4:10 half marathon. oh well, at least they gave me credit for finishing ... half of it anyway. |
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2014-08-01 3:29 PM in reply to: sheesleeva |
928 | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Good luck and let us know what you hear! |
2014-08-01 3:42 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Champion 7547 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by McFuzz I'd recommend sending a letter, not just an e-mail to the race director. In the letter, provide as much evidence as you can to help them out. Bib number, approximate split times, distinguishing apparel and information from race pics. Yes, it's a lot of work, but the easier you make it for them to zero in on the data in the timing records, the greater the chance they resolve it in your favor. Also in the letter, request a formal response in a reasonable amount of time (I don't know what you and they might consider reasonable, but I'd hope they can reply within 30 days.)
In the case of a big race like IMPL, the race director will defer the letter to the timing company, so I'd cut out the middle man and contact Sportstats directly or at least send the letter/email to both the RD and Sportstats at the same time. It was a DNF, not a DQ...so it has nothing to do with a rules violation, in which case the race director or head official may need to get involved. Sportstats is a HUGE timing company. They take these things seriously. http://www.sportstats.ca/ While the RD is likely to forward the letter to the timing company, you are the RD's customer and Sportstats is the RD's supplier. If you go around the RD, how is he supposed to know that there was a problem that has resulted in a dissatisfied customer? The RD can also enlist the help of other suppliers, such as the official photographer, to help resolve this where the timing company doesn't have any standing to make that request. The timing company shouldn't be invalidating any race results, the RD needs to do that. Whether it's changing a DNF to an official finish time or changing a finishing time to an official DNF, the RD has the final say and responsibility for what is done on his behalf. |
2014-08-01 4:03 PM in reply to: McFuzz |
Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Originally posted by McFuzz Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by McFuzz I'd recommend sending a letter, not just an e-mail to the race director. In the letter, provide as much evidence as you can to help them out. Bib number, approximate split times, distinguishing apparel and information from race pics. Yes, it's a lot of work, but the easier you make it for them to zero in on the data in the timing records, the greater the chance they resolve it in your favor. Also in the letter, request a formal response in a reasonable amount of time (I don't know what you and they might consider reasonable, but I'd hope they can reply within 30 days.)
In the case of a big race like IMPL, the race director will defer the letter to the timing company, so I'd cut out the middle man and contact Sportstats directly or at least send the letter/email to both the RD and Sportstats at the same time. It was a DNF, not a DQ...so it has nothing to do with a rules violation, in which case the race director or head official may need to get involved. Sportstats is a HUGE timing company. They take these things seriously. http://www.sportstats.ca/ While the RD is likely to forward the letter to the timing company, you are the RD's customer and Sportstats is the RD's supplier. If you go around the RD, how is he supposed to know that there was a problem that has resulted in a dissatisfied customer? The RD can also enlist the help of other suppliers, such as the official photographer, to help resolve this where the timing company doesn't have any standing to make that request. The timing company shouldn't be invalidating any race results, the RD needs to do that. Whether it's changing a DNF to an official finish time or changing a finishing time to an official DNF, the RD has the final say and responsibility for what is done on his behalf. My suggestion was only to speed up the process. The RD may want to be more in the loop, but really doesn't need to be. If Sportstats emails the RD out of the blue saying that the results needs to be changed because an athlete contacted them directly, I don't think it would be a problem. Sportstats doesn't need the RD to enlist the race photographer...the photos are already available online for anyone to view. |
2014-08-01 4:15 PM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Probably exacerbated by the swim issues, but in the last couple years the timing right after WTC IM races has often showed a lot of 00:000 or DNFs, for whatever reason, then it gets resolved. This may be a different issue, but I am sure it will get resolved.
Congrats on the finish!!! Edited by ChrisM 2014-08-01 4:15 PM |
2014-08-01 4:26 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 792 | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Why do people still insist on writing letters? A 6-minute phone call to the company would resolve the whole thing. Facebook and email are all perfect substitutes. Whenever I hear the phrase "write a letter" it always has the undertone of gross frustration and most people who say they are going to do so usually don't. Just call them. This isn't 1950. They are humans with telephones and immediate contact capabilities. Edited by lifejustice 2014-08-01 4:29 PM |
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2014-08-01 4:54 PM in reply to: sheesleeva |
Veteran 306 Austin | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? The exact same thing happened to me at Galveston 70.3. I even received an email from the timing company (sportstats) saying I had not returned my chip. Photos prove I had the timing chip as I crossed the finish line, so my guess it was a timing chip that just wasn't reading. After a few emails and facebook messages, I finally got the attention of the people at the timing company and my finish time was posted. Unfortunately, this took about 3 weeks. |
2014-08-08 12:40 PM in reply to: mindy00 |
Member 2098 Simsbury, Connecticut | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Saw on FB today that the final results are up - did they fix yours? http://www.sportstats.ca/searchResults.xhtml?eventname=lake+placid |
2014-08-08 4:56 PM in reply to: lifejustice |
New user 135 | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Originally posted by lifejustice I went through an ordeal with the IRS last year, where they insisted on certified mail and faxes, and no phone calls. After months of them complaining I wasn't responding, even with certified mail receipts and fax transmission receipts showing I had, they gave me a court date in DC. I finally called them, and a rep cleared the whole thing up easily over the phone. Why do people still insist on writing letters? A 6-minute phone call to the company would resolve the whole thing. Facebook and email are all perfect substitutes. Whenever I hear the phrase "write a letter" it always has the undertone of gross frustration and most people who say they are going to do so usually don't. Just call them. This isn't 1950. They are humans with telephones and immediate contact capabilities. Try the phone first. |
2014-08-11 8:49 AM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 379 | Subject: RE: IMLP gave me a DNF, advice? Originally posted by mtnbikerchk Saw on FB today that the final results are up - did they fix yours? http://www.sportstats.ca/searchResults.xhtml?eventname=lake+placid they never did fix it. To clarify, from the start, I have both called and emailed, lots of ignoring. I finally received a response when I included every email I could find on an email - they, the timing people, responded very quickly with a 'reply all' saying we will take care of it. They then sent me an individual email saying, don't know why it's showing DNF, we actually have the info, you did finish, we fixed it, but it will take 24 hours to show up. I waited 48 hours. nothing. I emailed them again, same response. Ok, we fixed it now, it will take 24 hours to show up, let us know if you have any more questions. I waited four days, still showing up DNF, so I contacted them again - now, waiting..... Along with the, "24 hours" they constantly misspell my name in emails to me, and each time I immediately response, "the correct spelling of my name..." they never acknowledge those emails, but I would think the adjustments are made based on bib number, not name spelling or misspelling. regardless. Ironman itself has yet to acknowledge any email or phone calls. It is a bit disconcerting going into my next race to not have this resolved. These are the kind of things that creep into my head hour 10 into a race ... will I even get credit? Edited by sheesleeva 2014-08-11 8:54 AM |
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