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2014-08-07 12:55 PM

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Subject: Worst injury during swim?
Like any bloody noses or B&B arms or legs?

I'm doing my first 2 tris very shortly and I'm an ultra competitive Upper MOP obstacle racer and marathoner although I'm new to bike and swim so I could struggle a bit? My swim has improved in the pool quite nice so I kind of wanna mix it up with the pack!! I have no OWS exp and one is an Atlantic city swim but in the bay and not the ocean? How bad is a bay chop wise?Other is in a lake! Is it wise to wann get kicked or punched so I can really feel like a triathlete... Oh I bought a sleeveless wetsuit but not sure if I will need for lake or not? Any suggestions on knowing if I should wear it? Never wore one before either!! Thanks for replys


2014-08-07 1:37 PM
in reply to: rodzilla

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?
Originally posted by rodzilla

Like any bloody noses or B&B arms or legs?

I'm doing my first 2 tris very shortly and I'm an ultra competitive Upper MOP obstacle racer and marathoner although I'm new to bike and swim so I could struggle a bit? My swim has improved in the pool quite nice so I kind of wanna mix it up with the pack!! I have no OWS exp and one is an Atlantic city swim but in the bay and not the ocean? How bad is a bay chop wise?Other is in a lake! Is it wise to wann get kicked or punched so I can really feel like a triathlete... Oh I bought a sleeveless wetsuit but not sure if I will need for lake or not? Any suggestions on knowing if I should wear it? Never wore one before either!! Thanks for replys


Well there was the lady in a florida race last year that got kicked in teh nose passed out and drowned. True story. Wanting to get kicked & punched to feel like a triathlete sounds to me like a way to deal with race day nerves & anxiety.

Be the swimmer that is smooth & in control and doesn't flail even if you get kicked or punched. Want to get kicked & punched so you can be the cocoon of calmness next to those panicked swimmers.
2014-08-07 1:45 PM
in reply to: rodzilla

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

Originally posted by rodzilla I bought a sleeveless wetsuit but not sure if I will need for lake or not? Any suggestions on knowing if I should wear it? Never wore one before either!! Thanks for replys

The wetsuit will definitely help your buoyancy and sleeveless makes it easier to move your arms.  If you're fast now, you'll probably be faster in the wetsuit.  Practice swimming in it a few times before your race so you can get used to it without the race scrum.  Also, practice your transition from the swim to the bike so you can figure out how best to get out of the darned thing in under 10 minutes.  As for whether or not to wear it at the lake, consider the water temperature.  If it's a USAT-sanctioned race, it's legal to wear it if the water temperature is below 78 degrees.  If you can tolerate cooler/cold water, you could do without it.  Your best bet is to give it a try and make up your mind based on experience.

2014-08-07 1:57 PM
in reply to: rodzilla

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?
While we (sprinters) were getting ready to go this past weekend and the Oly distance athletes were coming through T1, there was a woman with a bloody nose, and there was A LOT of blood. This caused a good amount of consternation/apprehension amongst the rookie athletes who witnessed her coming through. I'll admit that it likely caused me to give "the pack" a bit of a wide berth as we got started in the swim and stick to the edges rather than go up the middle.
2014-08-07 2:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

You may be in the wrong sport if you want to "mix it up".  The objective is to achieve the fastest time to the finish, and the best way to achieve that is generally to not waste precious seconds sparring with other swimmers.  Also, assuming you're in the U.S., and depending on how aggressive you get, it could be a violation of one or more of the following rules:

3.4 Race Conduct

b. Unsportsmanlike Conduct. Participants shall refrain from unsportsmanlike conduct, including the improper use of language or conduct directed toward an official. Violations of this Section shall result in disqualification or a variable time penalty depending on the severity of the violation as determined in the sole discretion of the Head Referee.

c. Obstruction. Participants shall refrain from intentionally or accidentally blocking, charging, obstructing, or interfering with the forward progress of another participant. Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty.

g. Unfair Advantage. No participant shall use his body, head, arms, or legs to gain an unfair advantage, or to push, pull, hold, strike, or force through one or more participants. Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty.

l. Endangerment. No participant shall commit any dangerous act which could cause injury to any participant. Any violation of this Section shall result in disqualification.

ETA:  To answer your question directly - I've been in races where people have died from injuries they've sustained from accidents during the swim and bike.

 



Edited by TriMyBest 2014-08-07 2:34 PM
2014-08-07 2:42 PM
in reply to: rodzilla

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

Originally posted by rodzilla Like any bloody noses or B&B arms or legs? I'm doing my first 2 tris very shortly and I'm an ultra competitive Upper MOP obstacle racer and marathoner although I'm new to bike and swim so I could struggle a bit? My swim has improved in the pool quite nice so I kind of wanna mix it up with the pack!! I have no OWS exp and one is an Atlantic city swim but in the bay and not the ocean? How bad is a bay chop wise?Other is in a lake! Is it wise to wann get kicked or punched so I can really feel like a triathlete... Oh I bought a sleeveless wetsuit but not sure if I will need for lake or not? Any suggestions on knowing if I should wear it? Never wore one before either!! Thanks for replys

Contact can be expected. Punched and kicked should not. That does not make you feel like a triathlete (well, not for me at least) I would suggest if it is your first race with no OWS experience that you do not "mix it up with the pack" and ruin someone elses swim. Go and have fun and race hard, but race smart. Triathlon is not supposed to be a contact sport.



2014-08-07 2:44 PM
in reply to: rodzilla

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

Curious as to the intentions of this thread, asking for worst horror stories. 99% of the time, contact on the swim is unintentional and harmless. Expect to get bumped or even groped by a passerby, but by in large it's just swimming. People will be faster than you, people will be slower than you. Be nice and race your race.

2014-08-07 3:03 PM
in reply to: rodzilla

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?
It's a not a fist fight.

I was in a early wave and was slow. When the next wave caught me I had quite a few people bump me and pass me. Sure there was contact and sure it wasn't fun. But, they passed and I kept swimming.
2014-08-07 3:23 PM
in reply to: rodzilla

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?
Originally posted by rodzilla

Like any bloody noses or B&B arms or legs?

I'm doing my first 2 tris very shortly and I'm an ultra competitive Upper MOP obstacle racer and marathoner although I'm new to bike and swim so I could struggle a bit? My swim has improved in the pool quite nice so I kind of wanna mix it up with the pack!! I have no OWS exp and one is an Atlantic city swim but in the bay and not the ocean? How bad is a bay chop wise?Other is in a lake! Is it wise to wann get kicked or punched so I can really feel like a triathlete... Oh I bought a sleeveless wetsuit but not sure if I will need for lake or not? Any suggestions on knowing if I should wear it? Never wore one before either!! Thanks for replys


People exaggerate a lot about the contact in the swim, it's not that bad.

If you really want contact play water polo, I did that in college. Broke my wrist once, and detached a retna. finger nail gouges were a daily occurrence.

I'll be doing the AC Olympic in Sept as well, but never did it before. I know the bays can get very choppy but I'm not familiar with the coarse so don't know how protected it is.
2014-08-07 3:26 PM
in reply to: rodzilla

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?
First, nothing new on race day. Go out and practice your open water swim, and if you want to wear a wetsuit, practice in the wetsuit. Last night at my tri club's OWS, I was more than a quarter mile out into the lake and saw someone treading water. Even though I was just sighting, I could see that something didn't seem right. I asked if he was OK. He said that he used to do tris, but had taken a couple years off and hadn't done an OWS since. Being in the middle of the lake was kind of freaking him out, and he needed a minute to calm down. I treaded water with him until he felt better (which didn't take long), and there were a lot of people out there, so he didn't feel that he needed to be helped to shore. You just never know how you are going to react to being out in the middle of a large body of water.

Also, I rented a wetsuit once that was simply too uncomfortable to swim in. It was actually painful. I tried getting in the water with the hopes that it would shift and get more comfortable, but I don't think I made it 25m before heading back to shore to take it off. You need to test out everything.

Second, there are going to be people in the race who are fast on any given leg. Really fast. Let them start just a couple yards ahead of you. If you can keep up, great. If not, then you are where you belong. As an advantage to hanging back, there is a certain amount of drafting in the water, and if they go ahead and you can keep up, you will save energy without really losing time.
2014-08-07 3:52 PM
in reply to: rodzilla

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

The AC race you are referring to I am guessing is Tri AC.  It's a time trial start and only 5 go off at a time.  It cuts down on the chaos.



2014-08-07 4:20 PM
in reply to: Goggles Pizzano

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?
I always hear people say "someone swam over the top of me" and in a way that always seems quite literal. I've always wondered about that. I'm not a fast swimmer, but I can't imagine someone being behind me in a race having the speed to do such a thing. The only way that could happen (I imagine) is if I started in front of the fast guys.

Will someone explain this "swimming over the top" of another swimmer phenomenon to me?
2014-08-07 4:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?
2014-08-07 5:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

Originally posted by Danno77 I always hear people say "someone swam over the top of me" and in a way that always seems quite literal. I've always wondered about that. I'm not a fast swimmer, but I can't imagine someone being behind me in a race having the speed to do such a thing. The only way that could happen (I imagine) is if I started in front of the fast guys. Will someone explain this "swimming over the top" of another swimmer phenomenon to me?

 

It's more of a lateral motion, like when someone realizes that they've gone off course and then start swimming at a diagonal, not realizing that they are now going way off course in the other direction, and you're stuck in the middle. It's happened to me in many many races (the one getting swam over, not the one pinballing all over the place.) It also happens a lot at the buoy turns when everyone gets gridlocked



Edited by trijamie 2014-08-07 5:18 PM
2014-08-07 5:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

Originally posted by Danno77 I always hear people say "someone swam over the top of me" and in a way that always seems quite literal. I've always wondered about that. I'm not a fast swimmer, but I can't imagine someone being behind me in a race having the speed to do such a thing. The only way that could happen (I imagine) is if I started in front of the fast guys. Will someone explain this "swimming over the top" of another swimmer phenomenon to me?

 

The swim-over happens unintentionally, but surprisingly isn't rare, unfortunately.

 

Most often, it's due to different waves starting at different times. Even if you're not a super-speedster, it's easy to be busily trying to draft some fast feet ahead of you, then -whammo! you run into the last swimmer from two waves ahead, whos' going literally 1+min/100m slower than you.

 

I used to also never believe you could unintentionally swim over people like this but having accidentally done this a few times as in the past few years, I'll say it can be hard to avoid. In all cases where I've accidentally done it, there were bodies boxing me in on all sides, everyone was going at the same speed, and then we ran into the next wave. Next thing I know, I'm on top of someone, and can't even stop to say SORRY! since everyone else around me is so scrunched up. Even in retrospect there was really now way I could ever see that slower swimmer ahead while drafting and keeping up with the scrum of folks in my AG.

 

I'll also add that if you the hand of a FOP swimmer lands on your back, it'll likely feel like a punch and/or a hard grab, as these folks pull pretty hard. It's not intentional, but I've seen on this forums and elsewhere, some 2:00+/100yd pool swimmers who misinterpret this as intentional, probably because they can't imagine their pull being this forceful. 

 

(I've also been swum over a few times in my early years, so I know how it is to be on the receiving end, including one memorable experience where literally like 5-6 speedy women in a row from 2 waves back who were tightly drafting in a lane, plowed right over me by accident, and yes, it felt like each and every one of them was trying to kill me, when they obviously weren't!



Edited by yazmaster 2014-08-07 5:23 PM
2014-08-07 5:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

Originally posted by lisac957

Curious as to the intentions of this thread, asking for worst horror stories. 99% of the time, contact on the swim is unintentional and harmless. Expect to get bumped or even groped by a passerby, but by in large it's just swimming. People will be faster than you, people will be slower than you. Be nice and race your race.

This.

I used to play Div. I NCAA water polo, so I can tell you about blood and broken bones (including my own) in the water.

In tris, not so much.   Wanting to get beaten up implies wanting to beat up.  See bold above.



Edited by ChrisM 2014-08-07 5:26 PM


2014-08-07 6:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

Originally posted by Danno77 I always hear people say "someone swam over the top of me" and in a way that always seems quite literal. I've always wondered about that. I'm not a fast swimmer, but I can't imagine someone being behind me in a race having the speed to do such a thing. The only way that could happen (I imagine) is if I started in front of the fast guys. Will someone explain this "swimming over the top" of another swimmer phenomenon to me?

It's not usually someone way faster than you.  It's the who get on your feet, then grab an ankle and pull.

2014-08-07 8:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

I strongly disagree with this. Again, you might feel it's someone intentionally grabbing your ankle, but there is no reason whatsoever anyone has any motivation to do this, even if they're trying to go around (or even over) you. For anyone trying to go faster, it would be a complete waste of time and energy to grab an ankle.

 

The grab comes from the palm down position of a hard pull, like a velcro hook. It's not that they're trying to grab you at all.



Edited by yazmaster 2014-08-07 9:11 PM
2014-08-07 9:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

My biggest fear is breast strokers - as long as everyone is trying to swim properly then the contact isn't a big deal.  But those breaststroking feet just come out of the gloom and threaten your fingers.

My wife saw a guy walk back out of the lake at IM Austria five minutes after the start cannon having been hit by a breastroker.

It's not illegal and I know a lot of weak and unconfident swimmers need to use the stroke but for me it's my biggest fear in open water.  Especially in wave starts where you can catch up the slower swimmers in the wave ahead. 

2014-08-08 1:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?
Let me clear this up!! By "mix it up" I mean starting with the group and not off the the end or waiting to be last out like some 1st timers are advised to do. Yes it is the triAC I was referring to and that's cool it's only 5 at a time start!! The other is medford lakes colony tri and does anyone know how the 17.2mile bike is? Flat/hills?
2014-08-08 7:09 AM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?
Originally posted by yazmaster

I strongly disagree with this. Again, you might feel it's someone intentionally grabbing your ankle, but there is no reason whatsoever anyone has any motivation to do this, even if they're trying to go around (or even over) you. For anyone trying to go faster, it would be a complete waste of time and energy to grab an ankle.

 

The grab comes from the palm down position of a hard pull, like a velcro hook. It's not that they're trying to grab you at all.




I had one race where someone in the swim wave behind me grabbed my ankle and pushed it over to the side. It was definitely a grab and not a downward push. It was probably because I have a scissor kick (which I am working on). In one sense, I can understand why he was irritated, but I was swimming in a straight line, so it seems more like his responsibility to go around, like I do if someone is doing a breast stroke.

In the first tri I did, someone swam over me. The person ahead of me was zig-zagging (one of the few things I am good at while swimming is sighting in open water). I swung wide to get around her because I was getting frustrated. The woman behind me swam cross-wise over the small of my back. It was a bit alarming, but fortunately I had heard it was a possibility so I didn't get freaked out.


2014-08-08 7:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?
Originally posted by Dan-L

My biggest fear is breast strokers - as long as everyone is trying to swim properly then the contact isn't a big deal.  But those breaststroking feet just come out of the gloom and threaten your fingers.



I had a guy swim Breast at the turn on an out and back, I was cruising along and all of a sudden I see a lime green swim cap coming straight up from beneath me. I was above him and a little shocked. To this day I have no idea what he was doing but I gave him a stiff arm and swam on.

I did dislocate and break a join on my little finger while circle swimming in high school. My finger is crooked and slightly rotated to this day. I have seen a lot of hand injuries usually on the wall and one foot, I did once see a diver give himself a flip top scalp on a dive, man was that a mess.

Edited by GotBackup 2014-08-08 7:15 AM
2014-08-08 9:23 AM
in reply to: happyscientist

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

Originally posted by happyscientist
Originally posted by yazmaster

The grab comes from the palm down position of a hard pull, like a velcro hook. It's not that they're trying to grab you at all.

I had one race where someone in the swim wave behind me grabbed my ankle and pushed it over to the side. It was definitely a grab and not a downward push.  

I am usually the wave in front of the ex-collegiate swimmers (those speedy male 25-29 fishies) and many times someone in that wave will come cruising up behind me and their reach is SO LONG and aggressive that at the time it certainly felt like something very intentional (and actually funny for some reason). But as I watch those guys swim more and more I realize it's just the way they reach and pull. So I agree that while they might not be trying to grab, it can very much feel that way in the water.

2014-08-08 9:30 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?
Originally posted by lisac957

Originally posted by happyscientist
Originally posted by yazmaster

The grab comes from the palm down position of a hard pull, like a velcro hook. It's not that they're trying to grab you at all.

I had one race where someone in the swim wave behind me grabbed my ankle and pushed it over to the side. It was definitely a grab and not a downward push.  

I am usually the wave in front of the ex-collegiate swimmers (those speedy male 25-29 fishies) and many times someone in that wave will come cruising up behind me and their reach is SO LONG and aggressive that at the time it certainly felt like something very intentional (and actually funny for some reason). But as I watch those guys swim more and more I realize it's just the way they reach and pull. So I agree that while they might not be trying to grab, it can very much feel that way in the water.




This guy wasn't doing the breast stroke, so there was no reason for his hand to go to the side like that. It was definitely a hand being wrapped around my ankle with a sideways shove. I have had plenty of people run into me, and this felt nothing like that. I'm not saying that it was malicious, but there is no way it wasn't intentional.
2014-08-08 11:01 AM
in reply to: lisac957


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Subject: RE: Worst injury during swim?

Originally posted by lisac957

Originally posted by happyscientist
Originally posted by yazmaster

The grab comes from the palm down position of a hard pull, like a velcro hook. It's not that they're trying to grab you at all.

I had one race where someone in the swim wave behind me grabbed my ankle and pushed it over to the side. It was definitely a grab and not a downward push.  

I am usually the wave in front of the ex-collegiate swimmers (those speedy male 25-29 fishies) and many times someone in that wave will come cruising up behind me and their reach is SO LONG and aggressive that at the time it certainly felt like something very intentional (and actually funny for some reason). But as I watch those guys swim more and more I realize it's just the way they reach and pull. So I agree that while they might not be trying to grab, it can very much feel that way in the water.

 

I've made a lot of swim progress of years, so I hear exactly what you're saying.

 

When I was a BBOPer and got grabbed/swum over, even though I was warned about it, I couldnt help but thinking WTFFFF??!?!? In retrospect, it was because I had no idea how forceful and strong these stronger swimmers were - I literally couldn't even fathom it, as that would have been greater than my max effort for a single pull, so it seemed so intentional. 

 

I'm significantly better now, and it's amazing how much more forceful and faster my catch is, and I'm not even podium-fast, so those guys are much more powerful. I would hate to have one of those guys landing a stroke on my back - yeouch!

 

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