General Discussion Triathlon Talk » PROOF, it's the engine that matters. Rss Feed  
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2014-09-23 12:27 PM
in reply to: MSU_Brad

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.

 its more about ignoring facts for fun catch phrases and vague stories about guys at places who do things.

 

 



2014-09-23 12:29 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by dmiller5

pretty sure the engine and genetics have some slight relation. training is really just tricking out your ride with NO2 boosters and a turbocharger.

Except I know people with the genetics who never work on the engine, and I know plenty of folks who work their arses off but they'll never reach the top levels because they don't have the genetics.......while I agree they are related, you won't get the full benefit of one without the other.

oh yeah, but that's my point!. You can supercharge your reliant robin but you ain't never winning a race with a stock Porsche 997 GT2

2014-09-23 12:30 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by dmiller5

pretty sure the engine and genetics have some slight relation. training is really just tricking out your ride with NO2 boosters and a turbocharger.

Except I know people with the genetics who never work on the engine, and I know plenty of folks who work their arses off but they'll never reach the top levels because they don't have the genetics.......while I agree they are related, you won't get the full benefit of one without the other.

oh yeah, but that's my point!. You can supercharge your reliant robin but you ain't never winning a race with a stock Porsche 997 GT2

Gotcha......and two posts in a row is rude.

2014-09-23 12:33 PM
in reply to: MSU_Brad

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
Originally posted by MSU_Brad

From reading most of the replies in this post, it's mainly about people being sarcastic, rude, and and showing their own knowledge. Really, isn't that what triathlon is all about? Forget the inspirational stories, it's an avenue to express yourself in these ways as so skillfully shown here.



depends on whether or not you think new people will take subject lines that start with PROOF when none is evident are dangerous or not.
2014-09-23 12:34 PM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.

Originally posted by Leegoocrap
Originally posted by MSU_Brad From reading most of the replies in this post, it's mainly about people being sarcastic, rude, and and showing their own knowledge. Really, isn't that what triathlon is all about? Forget the inspirational stories, it's an avenue to express yourself in these ways as so skillfully shown here.
depends on whether or not you think new people will take subject lines that start with PROOF when none is evident are dangerous or not.

Hey MSU_Brad, I know of some bracelets that make you faster just by wearing them. My friend used them so its PROOF that they work. Only $100 each and it will take you to the podium. Write the check out to ben greenfield.

2014-09-23 12:52 PM
in reply to: cstoulil

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
Wow I didn't know this post would cause such an uprising here on BT. I didn't say the enigine was the only thing that matters. All things are important in the equation.

I guess in my absence away from BT all the folks around here have become podium athletes at IM races and so my friends story is meaningless to them.

It's funny, if this were a post about should I sell these wheels, and get those wheels instead, or should I swap this helmet for that helmet, the response would have likely been, it's the engine that matters most.

While I don't doubt he would gain with a better bike, it all goes into the equation, I was just trying to show that for the beginners out there (this is still beginnertriathlete right?) that you don't necessarily need that $6000 bike to be fast. That people with a limited budget or who just chose not to splurge for whatever reason can still be successful without all the top of the line gear. Will it all help, yes, at least that's what the manufacturers who sell it tell us.

Sure equipment aside, some will just be faster than others due to genetics, but for the vast majority of us, we will see the most gains from simply working harder and smarter and that idea is what I was trying to convey.

I know I'm guilty of having a bike faster than myself. I get passed by people on road bikes etc, but I also pass people on much nicer bikes. But then again there aren't any rules on how fast you have to be to have a "fast" bike,


2014-09-23 12:58 PM
in reply to: cstoulil

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
don't worry... we're all just bored at work. You're thread just happened to gain traction this week
2014-09-23 1:18 PM
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Subject: ...
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Edited by Fred D 2014-09-23 1:18 PM
2014-09-23 1:19 PM
in reply to: MSU_Brad

Subject: ...
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2014-09-23 1:36 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.

Originally posted by Fred D

Originally posted by cstoulil Wow I didn't know this post would cause such an uprising here on BT.

Don't think it was much of an uprising. BT forums are pretty dead in general. Your post actually got some commentary, so good on you :-)

I didn't say the enigine was the only thing that matters.

Actually you did. Read your first post here...

"I say it's all about the engine because he is riding a Motobecane that is about 5+ years old. I don't think he even bought it new, I think it was used."

 

I guess in my absence away from BT all the folks around here have become podium athletes at IM races and so my friends story is meaningless to them.  

I am a podium triathlete. You should read my first response. Was quite complimentary to your buddy... so maybe all the folks but one ;-)

 

Either way, enjoyed your post. BT is more than dead in the general forums and there are occasional glimmers of hope in posts like yours. Being serious.

Fred is right....you should go to the mentor forums, there have been 35 posts total over there today. LMAO   Being serious.

2014-09-23 2:03 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
Originally posted by Fred D

Originally posted by cstoulil Wow I didn't know this post would cause such an uprising here on BT.

Don't think it was much of an uprising. BT forums are pretty dead in general. Your post actually got some commentary, so good on you :-)

I didn't say the enigine was the only thing that matters.

Actually you did. Read your first post here...

"I say it's all about the engine because he is riding a Motobecane that is about 5+ years old. I don't think he even bought it new, I think it was used."

 

I guess in my absence away from BT all the folks around here have become podium athletes at IM races and so my friends story is meaningless to them.  

I am a podium triathlete. You should read my first response. Was quite complimentary to your buddy... so maybe all the folks but one ;-)

 

Either way, enjoyed your post. BT is more than dead in the general forums and there are occasional glimmers of hope in posts like yours. Being serious.




Busted lol.


2014-09-23 2:41 PM
in reply to: cstoulil


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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
If you can afford it why not get the nicest bike you can get (this being from a person who has and will never own a 6k bike much less a 3-4k bike). My first triathlon was on a $100 target mountain bike and yea I got passed by everyone and their dog but I did pass a few. I then bought a $200 GMC beast of a road bike (the thing weighed 33 pounds). I did my first olympic on that bike and yea I got a fair amount of joy flying pass expensive carbon bikes on my 33 pound beast of an aluminum bike. I was going to do my first HiM on it but the bike started to break down I had to buy a new crank and bottom brackets and decided I wanted a better bike for my first half ironman. I bought a 2012 Quintanaroo Kilo that is considered the bottom of the barrel when it comes to tt bikes a total beginner tt bike which is also a aluminium bike but was also 14 pounds lighter, more aero and had much better components. The difference was night and day, I would never want to go back to my old gmc bike after having a nicer bike. My qr was totalled recently and I am going up to a jamis trilogy which is carbon composite so my first carbon bike with nice components and better wheels I'll have to see what the bike does for me speed wise. I was much faster going from my mountain bike to my gmc to my qr by just switching bikes. And it was noticebly faster, my mountain bike was 12-13mph, my gmc was 14-16 and my average speed for my qr was 18-20.

2014-09-23 3:47 PM
in reply to: sirdizzy


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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.

Yes, to go from wallyword bikes and mountain bikes to a 'real' road bike, even an entry level is a fairly large performance jump.

 

Most of the time on these forums, we kind of assume most folks when talking about equipment, are already comparing bikes of a similar class, mainly road vs road or tri vs tri (or even tri vs road.) It's otherwise too apples to oranges to talk include mtn bikes or cruiser bikes vs tribikes, as even the cheapest true road/tri bike will outperform even the top mountani bikes on a triathlon road course.

2014-09-24 9:37 AM
in reply to: yazmaster


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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
Its also funny someone would say genetics, %90 of amateur or age groupers will never reach their genetic potential for a variety of reasons. I have had this argument with runners before where they tell me they will never run faster than a 12 minute mile and that is there genetic potential which I have cried bs on. You talk to them they run 10-20 miles a week do zero speedwork and really don't put a lot of training in. I mean genetics plays a part but you got to get pass the bell curve point of where you have actually put the training and hardwork in to start making it factor in. I personally don't put the effort in to reach my genetic potential because of family and work commitments and its why I am middle of the packer and I know this. I don't go around blaming my genetics for not being faster as I know I could be if i wanted to be.
2014-09-24 9:53 AM
in reply to: sirdizzy

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
Originally posted by sirdizzy

Its also funny someone would say genetics, %90 of amateur or age groupers will never reach their genetic potential for a variety of reasons. I have had this argument with runners before where they tell me they will never run faster than a 12 minute mile and that is there genetic potential which I have cried bs on. You talk to them they run 10-20 miles a week do zero speedwork and really don't put a lot of training in. I mean genetics plays a part but you got to get pass the bell curve point of where you have actually put the training and hardwork in to start making it factor in. I personally don't put the effort in to reach my genetic potential because of family and work commitments and its why I am middle of the packer and I know this. I don't go around blaming my genetics for not being faster as I know I could be if i wanted to be.


just to be devils advocate... but what if those people don't have the genetics to train over 10-20 mpw and do speedwork?
2014-09-24 9:56 AM
in reply to: sirdizzy

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.

Originally posted by sirdizzy Its also funny someone would say genetics, %90 of amateur or age groupers will never reach their genetic potential for a variety of reasons. I have had this argument with runners before where they tell me they will never run faster than a 12 minute mile and that is there genetic potential which I have cried bs on. You talk to them they run 10-20 miles a week do zero speedwork and really don't put a lot of training in. I mean genetics plays a part but you got to get pass the bell curve point of where you have actually put the training and hardwork in to start making it factor in. I personally don't put the effort in to reach my genetic potential because of family and work commitments and its why I am middle of the packer and I know this. I don't go around blaming my genetics for not being faster as I know I could be if i wanted to be.

Eh...the genetics deal is usually discussed in reference to the pointy end of athletics.  Go train all you want in order to get to a 4:00 mile, or a 14:XX 5K, sub 30 10K, etc.....without genetics on your side you can forget it.  Yeah, you can win some local triathlons with hard work......but somewhere along that road upwards, without good genetics,  you will find a level you can't play at.



2014-09-24 10:03 AM
in reply to: Left Brain


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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by sirdizzy Its also funny someone would say genetics, %90 of amateur or age groupers will never reach their genetic potential for a variety of reasons. I have had this argument with runners before where they tell me they will never run faster than a 12 minute mile and that is there genetic potential which I have cried bs on. You talk to them they run 10-20 miles a week do zero speedwork and really don't put a lot of training in. I mean genetics plays a part but you got to get pass the bell curve point of where you have actually put the training and hardwork in to start making it factor in. I personally don't put the effort in to reach my genetic potential because of family and work commitments and its why I am middle of the packer and I know this. I don't go around blaming my genetics for not being faster as I know I could be if i wanted to be.

Eh...the genetics deal is usually discussed in reference to the pointy end of athletics.  Go train all you want in order to get to a 4:00 mile, or a 14:XX 5K, sub 30 10K, etc.....without genetics on your side you can forget it.  Yeah, you can win some local triathlons with hard work......but somewhere along that road upwards, without good genetics,  you will find a level you can't play at.




That's my point the people blaming genetics aren't running a 17 minute 5k and trying to get down to a 14:xx 5k they are running a 33 minute 5k and blaming genetics. You have to get way onto the pointy end of athletics before you can start talking genetics. My fastest 5k is 23:05 and this was when I was strictly a runner and I wasn't doing very much speed work but my run volume was way up. I honestly believe if I focused on running and speedwork I could run a sub 20 5k, how much below a 20 could I get I have no idea but genetics wouldn't even come into play until I did the hardwork to find out. Genetics also plays a factor as you get older if you can hold onto your speed. But until you actually put the hardwork in you will never know how far genetically you can go.
2014-09-24 10:17 AM
in reply to: sirdizzy

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.

Can I blame genetics when I've worked my butt off for 5 years to have a 20 year old jump into the tri scene running 5's off the bike and averaging 24mph with no bike experience?

Speaking of which, I need to make an anonymous tip to USADA...

2014-09-24 10:24 AM
in reply to: msteiner


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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
Originally posted by msteiner

Can I blame genetics when I've worked my butt off for 5 years to have a 20 year old jump into the tri scene running 5's off the bike and averaging 24mph with no bike experience?

Speaking of which, I need to make an anonymous tip to USADA...




No you can blame that one on age or you can blame his genetics and youth but not your own
2014-09-24 10:59 AM
in reply to: cstoulil

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
You guys have engines on your bicycles?!?!

Here I've been a chump all this time using my legs to pedal. No wonder I don't win.
2014-09-24 4:56 PM
in reply to: schaumi

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.

IMO, genetics as well as aerodynamics helps at every level.  Not just the elite or top athletes.

When I dabbled in semi-pro beach volleyball, I knew a guy that could sit on the couch for 6 months straight while I was hitting the gym daily lifting and doing plymetrics and we could get on the court and he can jump out of the gym, while I would still be bound by earths gravity.

Good genetics means you are predisposed to be more successful at certain things.  You get more gains with similar training, or can recover faster, or do less damage in the first place.

Genetics made me 6'7" 235# - I didn't TRAIN to be 6'7"  I can train just as much as the 5'7" guy that ways 140# and he will be faster in most cases, he can train faster, recover faster due to less pounding due to weight, and probably does less joint damage WHILE training.

Genetics is a limiter up and down the scale.

However, people may assume they hit a genetic celling to their performance FAR before they actually have.



2014-09-24 11:21 PM
in reply to: msteiner


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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
maybe he is doping
2014-09-25 8:13 AM
in reply to: Tryrn

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.

not sure if you were trying to be funny, but that is a dangerous thing to allege around here.

2014-09-25 9:30 AM
in reply to: cstoulil

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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
This is somewhat off topic from the original post so you can skip it if you aren't interested.

The interesting thing to me about your post is how many times a person has to "hit the lottery" to be a truly elite athlete.

You have to hit the genetic lottery. I know a lot of people can train really hard and get really fast but it is the very rare athlete that has the physiolgic potential to be truly elite (Kona winner, Olympics qualifier, ITU elite).

You have to hit the parental lottery. You have to have parents that support you, help you, can provide the financial means to pursue your athletic dream.

Then you need the brain of an elite athlete. You need to commit to the heartrending process of putting in thousands of grueling hours worshipping the gods of consistency to realize the first two lotterys that you hit. A guy I graduated from high school with was one of the most gifted soccer players in the country, recruited by every major college. When he got to college the partying started and he was no longer playing soccer six months later. Almost there but a couple (lottery) numbers didn't quite match up.......



I would guess that your friend is a genetic lottery winner. The fact that he has come out the other side of what was not an optimal lifestyle and is now a very pointy end athlete suggests that he has some physiologic gifts that many of us don't have. The fact that he ended up an addict would suggest that he missed one or both of the second lottery chances. Lionel Sanders would be another example of a genetic freak who has passed through the crucible and is now realizing the benefits of his gifts. What if your friend had never become an addict but instead had been fed directly in to some triathlete development progeam? Would he be vying for a Kona win in 2014? We will never know.

Even people without gifted parents can occasionally have their genes mix up in ways that yields an exceptional athlete. Look at Michael Phelps' mom. I don't know her athletic history but looking at her, one would not guess that she is the parent of one of the most gifted swimmers of all time.

And to address the original post.....put a TDF rider on a steel, round tube bike and he will beat pretty much every triathlete out there. Of course, put that TDF cyclist on the same steel bike competing against another TDF cyclist on modern technology and he will be at a disadvantage. The engine may be exponentially more important but the bike still does matter (some).

2014-09-25 9:36 AM
in reply to: schaumi


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Subject: RE: PROOF, it's the engine that matters.
Originally posted by schaumi

You guys have engines on your bicycles?!?!

Here I've been a chump all this time using my legs to pedal. No wonder I don't win.


So that's why those fancy bikes are so darn expensive. I can't believe I missed that.
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General Discussion Triathlon Talk » PROOF, it's the engine that matters. Rss Feed  
 
 
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