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What is elite?
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 2015-01-05 6:31 AM |
Expert  2355    Madison, Wisconsin |  Subject: What is elite?Seems like the new buzzword being used all too often and thus nothing really is elite anymore, or was it ever? So what is it? What does it mean to you? Is it a training standard? A performance standard? How do you measure it. against your previous self, against others, specific metrics? Does the word elite turn you off, make you want to be apart of it? |
| 2015-01-05 7:22 AM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Pro 6011  Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: What is elite? It seems pretty straightforward...at least in the U.S...http://www.usatriathlon.org/membership-services/elite-membership/qualification.aspx To me it's just a word to describe a classification of athletes.
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| 2015-01-05 7:24 AM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: What is elite? Someone who has met the criteria to compete as an elite athlete according to their NGB. Shane |
| 2015-01-05 7:34 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by gsmacleod Someone who has met the criteria to compete as an elite athlete according to their NGB. Shane problem is that organization like to use this term. For example, Ironman refers to their All World Athlete members as having "Elite" status It's like my Air Canada Frequent flyer status. They used to call it "Super Elite", I used to call it "Sucker stuck in airport lounges" Edited by marcag 2015-01-05 7:34 AM |
| 2015-01-05 7:42 AM in reply to: marcag |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by gsmacleod Someone who has met the criteria to compete as an elite athlete according to their NGB. Shane problem is that organization like to use this term. For example, Ironman refers to their All World Athlete members as having "Elite" status It's like my Air Canada Frequent flyer status. They used to call it "Super Elite", I used to call it "Sucker stuck in airport lounges" I agree and dislike the use of elite to denote anyone who has not earned their elite card. Having things like "Age Group Elite" waves is silly IMO; if you want to be an elite and race against the pointy end, then earn your card and have at it. If not, race with your age group and deal with all the hassles the pseudo-elites want to avoid with the "Age Group Elite" wave. Shane |
| 2015-01-05 11:18 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Veteran 1900 Southampton, Ontario | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by gsmacleod Someone who has met the criteria to compete as an elite athlete according to their NGB. Shane problem is that organization like to use this term. For example, Ironman refers to their All World Athlete members as having "Elite" status It's like my Air Canada Frequent flyer status. They used to call it "Super Elite", I used to call it "Sucker stuck in airport lounges" I agree and dislike the use of elite to denote anyone who has not earned their elite card. Having things like "Age Group Elite" waves is silly IMO; if you want to be an elite and race against the pointy end, then earn your card and have at it. If not, race with your age group and deal with all the hassles the pseudo-elites want to avoid with the "Age Group Elite" wave. Shane What?!?! are you trying to say that my BOP elite status is a farce? |
| 2015-01-05 12:34 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: What is elite? I thought elite was when you were crushing dreams, stomping on flower beds, and banishing rainbows. Or something like that. Edited by Jason N 2015-01-05 12:34 PM |
| 2015-01-05 1:07 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: What is elite? In my book, if you are racing for the overall AG podium then you are "elite." I don't know the criteria to get an elite card. I know I don't qualify. |
| 2015-01-05 1:28 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: What is elite? \ Originally posted by TriMyBest It seems pretty straightforward...at least in the U.S...http://www.usatriathlon.org/membership-services/elite-membership/qualification.aspx To me it's just a word to describe a classification of athletes.
I agree. If someone is looking for performance standards......there are benchmarks. Sub 16:00 5K along with an 8:15 or under 800 swim (SCY) is a good place to start. But even that won't get you "elite" status with USAT unless you have a race performance, or ranking, that meets the criteria. |
| 2015-01-05 2:11 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
| 3 | Subject: RE: What is elite? From my point of view there is only one type of elite status, but two types of professional athlete status in triathlon. 1. Elite triathletes who compete on the WTS/Worldcup/Continental circuits. 2. Professional Ironman Athletes. I only distinguish these two for the reasons below: Most organizations have standards that give you a good idea of how fast you need to be in able to perform at an elite level. However standards, in the big picture, mean nothing. Some athletes perform better under the real pressure of a race, some perform better at individual legs of a triathlon (aka Swim or Run Time Trials), some perform better when putting all three together in a real race. What separates you from everyone else is how well you perform and how consistent you are. That being said, if you are an age group athlete and not racing draft legal races, you will never be an elite. It doesn't matter if you went to worlds for your age group, you just are not good enough for that elite level. However, if you are not a draft legal athlete then you can compete professionally at a half ironman, or ironman distance. In reality Iron man racing and Draft legal racing are two different sports. One requires you to be the absolute fastest you can possibly be. The other requires you to have incredible endurance and mental strength. Just because you are good at one, does not mean you would be good at another. Some athletes do graduate from ITU to Ironman (Tim Don, Jan Frodeno etc.). Not because they aren't professional anymore, but likely because their speed begins to descend after a certain age. Again, some athletes could never be an ironman athlete despite their incredible ability to compete at the ITU level. Nevertheless, Draft legal athletes are elite, any other form of the sport can only go as far as being called professional. But! In order to be professional you need to be competing with the best no matter the age. If you are only trying to win your age group, then you are not pro or elite. Just a very good age group athlete. Which is an accomplishment in itself. Cheers. |
| 2015-01-05 7:29 PM in reply to: wannabefaster |
| 928 | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by wannabefaster In my book, if you are racing for the overall AG podium then you are "elite." I don't know the criteria to get an elite card. I know I don't qualify. Age-group winners and elite are NOT the same thing. |
| 2015-01-06 7:20 AM in reply to: jennifer_runs |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: What is elite? Anyone who went faster must have been an elite. |
| 2015-01-06 8:24 AM in reply to: bcagle25 |
| Subject: RE: What is elite? |
| 2015-01-06 10:47 AM in reply to: Jason N |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by Jason N I thought elite was when you were crushing dreams, stomping on flower beds, and banishing rainbows. Or something like that. LMAO |
| 2015-01-06 1:59 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: What is elite? Even within elite you have "elite". Think about "elite" quarterbacks in the NFL- maybe 4 or 5 truly "elite" guys, but every single other QB on an NFL roster is actually elite when compared to the rest of us. I prefer just keeping it simple for classification purposes (however the governing body defines it) and leave it up to them to see if the term gets too diluted. This sport is full of "world" or "national" championships and the like, which implies something elite, when they are really nothing like that. I qualified for the halfmax national champs a few times by finishing top third in some race. Thats not elite but sounds impressive. Same thing with the USAT nationals. It is a little stricter but still a pretty easy qualification std compared to a "real" national championship. What were we talking about again? I can't see all you little people from up here on my soapbox! I sorta define elite as "a whole lot better than me, and if I can strive for it then it isn't elite". Edited by louiskie 2015-01-06 2:02 PM |
| 2015-01-06 2:46 PM in reply to: louiskie |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by louiskie I can't see all you little people from up here on my soapbox!
HA!!! I scored some really good hockey tickets for one of my daughter's favorite teams as a x-mas present to her. We were in the club seats where all the food and drinks were included......buffets with carving stations, dessert trays delivered to the door, blah,blah,blah.....and entry to the facility an hour before regular admission. The next day I checked her facebook page and saw that she had taken a picture of a hoard of folks coming up a long escalator when the doors opened and posted it with a wink and the caption, "this is how the peons go to a hockey game". LMAO For 5 hours.....we were elite. |
| 2015-01-06 2:49 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by louiskie I can't see all you little people from up here on my soapbox!  HA!!! I scored some really good hockey tickets for one of my daughter's favorite teams as a x-mas present to her. We were in the club seats where all the food and drinks were included......buffets with carving stations, dessert trays delivered to the door, blah,blah,blah.....and entry to the facility an hour before regular admission. The next day I checked her facebook page and saw that she had taken a picture of a hoard of folks coming up a long escalator when the doors opened and posted it with a wink and the caption, "this is how the peons go to a hockey game". LMAO For 5 hours.....we were elite. Yup, thats how you roll! Thats awesome. The bar has been set for next birthday though... |
| 2015-01-06 3:02 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran 2098 Alberta | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by louiskie I can't see all you little people from up here on my soapbox!
HA!!! I scored some really good hockey tickets for one of my daughter's favorite teams as a x-mas present to her. We were in the club seats where all the food and drinks were included......buffets with carving stations, dessert trays delivered to the door, blah,blah,blah.....and entry to the facility an hour before regular admission. The next day I checked her facebook page and saw that she had taken a picture of a hoard of folks coming up a long escalator when the doors opened and posted it with a wink and the caption, "this is how the peons go to a hockey game". LMAO For 5 hours.....we were elite. Hope those were given, otherwise you could probably bought a new bike with the money spent on tickets... |
| 2015-01-06 9:51 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: What is elite? To me elite would mean someone who has hope of getting on the podium at a major national or international race, most likely someone with a pro card. But the word is used very flexibly, at least in SE Asia. Here I usually have the option to race in Elite rather than age group waves--I've asked specifically what that means and was told it means someone who has a track record of finishing in the top 10-20 men/women in the larger regional races, which I generally do. When I have the option, I choose the elite wave because most of my best AG competition is in it, and it allows me to have a better swim, The "elite" wave is usually smaller, with more experienced athletes, and fewer newbies who will take off like maniacs and then come to a near-stop after a few hundred yards. It also allows me draft men, since Elite is usually co-ed while the AG is often separated by gender. I'm generally first in my AG on the swim so in an AG wave might have no one to draft. Elite allows me to draft younger women who are stronger swimmers and have stronger people to push myself against on the swim. |
| 2015-01-07 12:00 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
| 87 | Subject: RE: What is elite? To me, other than the elites being the ones winning that category... The one's who are pushing for a competition spot at a national or international level, I guess. |
| 2015-01-08 2:54 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Expert 2192 Greenville, SC | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by marcag I agree and dislike the use of elite to denote anyone who has not earned their elite card. Having things like "Age Group Elite" waves is silly IMO; if you want to be an elite and race against the pointy end, then earn your card and have at it. If not, race with your age group and deal with all the hassles the pseudo-elites want to avoid with the "Age Group Elite" wave. Shane Originally posted by gsmacleod Someone who has met the criteria to compete as an elite athlete according to their NGB. Shane problem is that organization like to use this term. For example, Ironman refers to their All World Athlete members as having "Elite" status It's like my Air Canada Frequent flyer status. They used to call it "Super Elite", I used to call it "Sucker stuck in airport lounges" Where I live the "Age Group Elites" race for $$$ and the Age Groupers race for a hat or lunchbox. Going out and dominating a weak AG is one thing, and going out and racing against everyone who wants the OA win is another; on the local level at least. I've done a lot of races this past year where I finished off the podium, but several minutes ahead of the AG winner for my age bracket. It's all about the illusion of better competition. I could have slacked off and easily taken my AG win, but knowing I was racing only for the OA podium typically forced me to put in a little extra effort. The RD is smart. They are creating better competition for the local fast guys in order to keep them coming to all their races instead of bailing out of the local level events and spending all their race budget on WTC events. |
| 2015-01-08 8:15 PM in reply to: #5079610 |
Veteran 434 Apex, NC | Subject: RE: What is elite? Not sure how to quote on my iPad. This is for Clempson about age group elites... I'm curious. I've never heard of age group elites. In our local races we have an open category who race outside the AGs and for the OA. Is that what you're referring to or something else? (I'm keenly aware of the opens because inevitably I win or podium in my AG and get all excited only to learn the some dude or dudes from my AG were in the open category and spanked me.) |
| 2015-01-08 9:47 PM in reply to: smoom |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by smoom Not sure how to quote on my iPad. This is for Clempson about age group elites... I'm curious. I've never heard of age group elites. In our local races we have an open category who race outside the AGs and for the OA. Is that what you're referring to or something else? (I'm keenly aware of the opens because inevitably I win or podium in my AG and get all excited only to learn the some dude or dudes from my AG were in the open category and spanked me.) I've seen this done in a few ways. Sometimes this wave is its own race and others it's simply a wave with the fast people going for the overall. When the wave is its own race, they mean just that. Only the people in that wave are competing with each other and have their own final standings. All the other waves work like most AG races do. Separate overall winners and separate age group placings for each. In the latter case, it seems that the "elite" wave may be to help attract some of the faster folks to a little more beginner friendly race. Everyone is combined into one big list in the results. Sure it's handled other ways as well. |
| 2015-01-08 9:53 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by smoom Not sure how to quote on my iPad. This is for Clempson about age group elites... I'm curious. I've never heard of age group elites. In our local races we have an open category who race outside the AGs and for the OA. Is that what you're referring to or something else? (I'm keenly aware of the opens because inevitably I win or podium in my AG and get all excited only to learn the some dude or dudes from my AG were in the open category and spanked me.) I've seen this done in a few ways. Sometimes this wave is its own race and others it's simply a wave with the fast people going for the overall. When the wave is its own race, they mean just that. Only the people in that wave are competing with each other and have their own final standings. All the other waves work like most AG races do. Separate overall winners and separate age group placings for each. In the latter case, it seems that the "elite" wave may be to help attract some of the faster folks to a little more beginner friendly race. Everyone is combined into one big list in the results. Sure it's handled other ways as well. Saturday evening field's #1 and #2 beer league. Edited by Left Brain 2015-01-08 9:57 PM |
| 2015-01-09 8:01 AM in reply to: smoom |
Expert 2192 Greenville, SC | Subject: RE: What is elite? Originally posted by smoom Not sure how to quote on my iPad. This is for Clempson about age group elites... I'm curious. I've never heard of age group elites. In our local races we have an open category who race outside the AGs and for the OA. Is that what you're referring to or something else? (I'm keenly aware of the opens because inevitably I win or podium in my AG and get all excited only to learn the some dude or dudes from my AG were in the open category and spanked me.) Correct; I'm guessing you are referring to Set Up Events since you are from NC |
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