Transition to racing flats
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2015-02-01 3:09 PM |
, Illinois | Subject: Transition to racing flats With spring coming I will be initially working on building up my distance again because I didn't do much running over the winter. I'm also looking at getting some new running shoes. I looked at some Newton racing flats and have read their suggestions on transitioning to flats. I'm going to be building up my distance so if I'm going to change over to flats this may be the time to do it. My question is, should I make the change? How many people run in flats? What are the pros and cons? I've read that people may use them more for 10K or less but I'm almost positive I saw Rinny wearing a pair at Kona last year and she did pretty damn good. If I do make the transition does that mean I should only wear flats for both training and racing? Will the muscle adaptation stay will me or deteriorate if I don't use the flats all the time? |
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2015-02-03 10:25 PM in reply to: ec1974 |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats I use flats for speed work and racing only, not for basic daily training. Rinny probably does much the same. |
2015-02-04 1:58 AM in reply to: ec1974 |
Regular 606 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats What do you wear now? If you are already in some sort of transitional shoe, the adaptation period will be much shorter. But anyway, why? Just because the pros do something, that doesn't necessarily mean that it will benefit you, or indeed other pros. |
2015-02-04 7:30 AM in reply to: ec1974 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats What's your reasoning for wearing flats? Someone like Rinny can get away with flats in an IM run (and her NB "flats" aren't really flats in the typical sense) because she runs really fast. If you can run a 2:50 IM marathon then have at it. If you plan on running for 4-6 hours then a running flat would more than likely be a complete disaster. Pros: lighter, which in theory allows for quicker turnover, which in theory allows for a faster run. Cons: Almost no cushioning. That con will generally outweigh that pro. |
2015-02-04 7:37 AM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Master 2725 Washington, DC Metro | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by GMAN 19030 What's your reasoning for wearing flats? Someone like Rinny can get away with flats in an IM run (and her NB "flats" aren't really flats in the typical sense) because she runs really fast. If you can run a 2:50 IM marathon then have at it. If you plan on running for 4-6 hours then a running flat would more than likely be a complete disaster. Pros: lighter, which in theory allows for quicker turnover, which in theory allows for a faster run. Cons: Almost no cushioning. That con will generally outweigh that pro.
I tend to agree with this. I do wear flats, but only for races below 10K... but I can get away with it for the most part... I race at ~ 130 pounds, I have a track running background, and I have a fairly "light" step and running form. |
2015-02-04 7:53 AM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
297 Arden, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by GMAN 19030 What's your reasoning for wearing flats? Someone like Rinny can get away with flats in an IM run (and her NB "flats" aren't really flats in the typical sense) because she runs really fast. If you can run a 2:50 IM marathon then have at it. If you plan on running for 4-6 hours then a running flat would more than likely be a complete disaster. Pros: lighter, which in theory allows for quicker turnover, which in theory allows for a faster run. Cons: Almost no cushioning. That con will generally outweigh that pro. And I believe she weighs about 110 lbs. The more you weigh the more of con that lack of cushioning becomes. I wear flats for 5k only, mainly for the quick transition. I also weigh 200 pounds and it feels like I'm running in slippers. Not comfortable at all but i can tolerate it for 20 minutes. Marathon? Forget it. I'm wearing my Hokas for half marathon and up. I have newtons for 10k. Still fast, but a bit more cushion |
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2015-02-04 8:29 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by Donskiman I use flats for speed work and racing only, not for basic daily training. Rinny probably does much the same. Fixed it for you........but agree with your premise and I know some folks use them for speed work. I suspect the OP wasn't actually talking about racing flats, but more likely zero drop shoes.
Edited by Left Brain 2015-02-04 8:30 AM |
2015-02-04 9:36 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Donskiman I use flats for speed work and racing only, not for basic daily training. Rinny probably does much the same. Fixed it for you........but agree with your premise and I know some folks use them for speed work. I suspect the OP wasn't actually talking about racing flats, but more likely zero drop shoes.
Thanks, but I do use them for speed work. One other thing to consider about most flats is they have very little long term durability. If a person is doing any kind of serious run training they could burn through a pair of flats every 2-3 weeks. |
2015-02-04 9:45 AM in reply to: Donskiman |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by Donskiman Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks, but I do use them for speed work. One other thing to consider about most flats is they have very little long term durability. If a person is doing any kind of serious run training they could burn through a pair of flats every 2-3 weeks. Originally posted by Donskiman I use flats for speed work and racing only, not for basic daily training. Rinny probably does much the same. Fixed it for you........but agree with your premise and I know some folks use them for speed work. I suspect the OP wasn't actually talking about racing flats, but more likely zero drop shoes.
Just curious....why? |
2015-02-04 10:07 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Donskiman Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks, but I do use them for speed work. One other thing to consider about most flats is they have very little long term durability. If a person is doing any kind of serious run training they could burn through a pair of flats every 2-3 weeks. Originally posted by Donskiman I use flats for speed work and racing only, not for basic daily training. Rinny probably does much the same. Fixed it for you........but agree with your premise and I know some folks use them for speed work. I suspect the OP wasn't actually talking about racing flats, but more likely zero drop shoes.
Just curious....why? A few reasons. Among them are getting adjusted to the more rapid turnover, helping my body adjust to a shoe with very little cushioning, and they allow me to run faster. This speed work is limited in scope and done at a track. The shoes aren't durable enough to do lots of training in them. |
2015-02-04 10:13 AM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Expert 3145 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by GMAN 19030 What's your reasoning for wearing flats? Someone like Rinny can get away with flats in an IM run (and her NB "flats" aren't really flats in the typical sense) because she runs really fast. If you can run a 2:50 IM marathon then have at it. If you plan on running for 4-6 hours then a running flat would more than likely be a complete disaster. Pros: lighter, which in theory allows for quicker turnover, which in theory allows for a faster run. Cons: Almost no cushioning. That con will generally outweigh that pro. They are pretty dang close to flats at, I believe, around 6oz. Definitely agree with the marathon time part and weight of the athlete definitely comes into play as well. I race in flats (NB MRC1600 previously) and sometimes would use them for shorter speed work on the track but not always. Definitely not a shoe you want to do all your daily mileage in. If you're not a clyde then give them a try on a 5k and see how they go, you can build up from there if all is well. |
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2015-02-04 10:24 AM in reply to: Donskiman |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by Donskiman Originally posted by Left Brain A few reasons. Among them are getting adjusted to the more rapid turnover, helping my body adjust to a shoe with very little cushioning, and they allow me to run faster. This speed work is limited in scope and done at a track. The shoes aren't durable enough to do lots of training in them. Originally posted by Donskiman Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks, but I do use them for speed work. One other thing to consider about most flats is they have very little long term durability. If a person is doing any kind of serious run training they could burn through a pair of flats every 2-3 weeks. Originally posted by Donskiman I use flats for speed work and racing only, not for basic daily training. Rinny probably does much the same. Fixed it for you........but agree with your premise and I know some folks use them for speed work. I suspect the OP wasn't actually talking about racing flats, but more likely zero drop shoes.
Just curious....why? I get that, but we just use racing shoes for racing, flats or spikes. While I agree that racing shoes are not durable enough to put a bunch of miles/wear on them, I don't agree that wearing them in training gives you any benefit. In fact, I would argue that only wearing them in races is where the real benefit comes from because of the difference between them and training shoes. |
2015-02-04 10:42 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Donskiman Originally posted by Left Brain A few reasons. Among them are getting adjusted to the more rapid turnover, helping my body adjust to a shoe with very little cushioning, and they allow me to run faster. This speed work is limited in scope and done at a track. The shoes aren't durable enough to do lots of training in them. Originally posted by Donskiman Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks, but I do use them for speed work. One other thing to consider about most flats is they have very little long term durability. If a person is doing any kind of serious run training they could burn through a pair of flats every 2-3 weeks. Originally posted by Donskiman I use flats for speed work and racing only, not for basic daily training. Rinny probably does much the same. Fixed it for you........but agree with your premise and I know some folks use them for speed work. I suspect the OP wasn't actually talking about racing flats, but more likely zero drop shoes.
Just curious....why? I get that, but we just use racing shoes for racing, flats or spikes. While I agree that racing shoes are not durable enough to put a bunch of miles/wear on them, I don't agree that wearing them in training gives you any benefit. In fact, I would argue that only wearing them in races is where the real benefit comes from because of the difference between them and training shoes. Your point is valid. I don't do all speed work in them, only a few times a year. |
2015-02-04 11:48 AM in reply to: 0 |
Seattle | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats I have raced in flats from 3K to the marathon. I do not do any training in them with the exception being a quick race simulation to make sure everything feels right before a marathon. The biggest pro to the flat of course is their lightweight nature. Mine are something like 2.4 oz. (I don't wear these for the marathon distance, those are something like 6 oz) But likely for most there are more cons than pros. If you need/like any kind of support or cushioning, they really aren't for you. Also, if you are managing any kind of injuries, they will likely exacerbate them. If you are a heavier runner or even have a heavy gait (if that makes sense) they probably aren't for you. You just have to think, if the shoes aren't absorbing any of the shock, it's your body that is. So, the question is, can your body handle that or not?
I definitely would NOT wear them for training.
Edited by Asalzwed 2015-02-04 11:50 AM |
2015-02-04 1:09 PM in reply to: Asalzwed |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats I only pretend to be a runner. But my racing flats stay on the shelf except for 10k races or shorter. I dabbled with Vibrams for some short workouts and track work just to get a feel for flats and try that theory/style of running... For Half mary or longer (and their counterpart lengths in tri) I love my nice cushiony running shoes. |
2015-02-04 9:33 PM in reply to: Kido |
, Illinois | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Sorry, I didn't really understand the difference. My original question should have referred to zero drop shoes. I'm assuming I can find zero drop shoes with some decent cushioning. My reason for changing would be for health rather than speed. I've read that zero drop shoes create a more natural running form but I'm curious if this a marketing ploy or if there is any truth to this. I'm always skeptical of new ideas marketed toward the sport but I'm thinking this may have some merit because I see pro's using them and they put on many more miles than most. If you're going to put on that many miles of training I would suspect you would be using the equipment that protects your body the best. |
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2015-02-04 9:57 PM in reply to: ec1974 |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by ec1974 Sorry, I didn't really understand the difference. My original question should have referred to zero drop shoes. I'm assuming I can find zero drop shoes with some decent cushioning. My reason for changing would be for health rather than speed. I've read that zero drop shoes create a more natural running form but I'm curious if this a marketing ploy or if there is any truth to this. I'm always skeptical of new ideas marketed toward the sport but I'm thinking this may have some merit because I see pro's using them and they put on many more miles than most. If you're going to put on that many miles of training I would suspect you would be using the equipment that protects your body the best. Zero drop shoes do nothing by themselves to change running form. They may make it slightly easier for you to make adjustments, but you can make those same adjustments in any other shoe. Years ago when I changed my technique to a more "natural" form, I was wearing Nike Pegasus with a 12-14 drop. If you are going from a traditional drop like that to zero drop thinking it will somehow magically transform your technique, you are mistaken and may end up hurting yourself. |
2015-02-05 6:49 AM in reply to: ec1974 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by ec1974 Sorry, I didn't really understand the difference. My original question should have referred to zero drop shoes. I'm assuming I can find zero drop shoes with some decent cushioning. My reason for changing would be for health rather than speed. I've read that zero drop shoes create a more natural running form but I'm curious if this a marketing ploy or if there is any truth to this. I'm always skeptical of new ideas marketed toward the sport but I'm thinking this may have some merit because I see pro's using them and they put on many more miles than most. If you're going to put on that many miles of training I would suspect you would be using the equipment that protects your body the best. Yeah, that's a big difference. Flats and zero drop shoes are not the same thing. In fact the Rinny shoes you mentioned in your OP are 6mm drops and not zero. There are plenty of low drop shoes (0-4 mm) with plenty of cushioning. Most of the Hoka shoes fall within the 2-4mm drop and they're super cushioned. Altra has the Olympus which is a zero drop cushioned shoe. |
2015-02-05 10:17 AM in reply to: ec1974 |
Expert 3145 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Zero drop is a farce. If you really think you need to work on landing more midfoot (how did you come to decide you even need to?) then take your shoes off, get in the grass and start running some strides barefoot. |
2015-02-05 11:03 AM in reply to: thebigb |
Seattle | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by thebigb Zero drop is a farce. If you really think you need to work on landing more midfoot (how did you come to decide you even need to?) then take your shoes off, get in the grass and start running some strides barefoot. I completely agree. And even then, messing with your stride really should be something that is monitored by an expert. Proceed with extreme caution. |
2015-02-05 6:59 PM in reply to: thebigb |
, Illinois | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by thebigb Zero drop is a farce. If you really think you need to work on landing more midfoot (how did you come to decide you even need to?) then take your shoes off, get in the grass and start running some strides barefoot. This made my decision. I don't think I need to change anything with my stride, I just wanted to hear if there were any health benefits, as claimed, to be derived from zero drop shoes. Thanks for everyone's input. |
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2015-02-05 8:30 PM in reply to: ec1974 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Transition to racing flats Originally posted by ec1974 Originally posted by thebigb This made my decision. I don't think I need to change anything with my stride, I just wanted to hear if there were any health benefits, as claimed, to be derived from zero drop shoes. Thanks for everyone's input. Zero drop is a farce. If you really think you need to work on landing more midfoot (how did you come to decide you even need to?) then take your shoes off, get in the grass and start running some strides barefoot. For me there has been, but your mileage may vary. |
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