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2015-02-09 10:01 AM

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Subject: Vacation Ideas- Need Help
Hello everyone

My family is trying to plan a vacation this year towards the end of May. Last year, my wifes grandmother passed away and left some money to her parents. The idea was brought up to use it to take a large family vacation to either Europe or Israel to see the sights that her grandmother saw. A little background on the reason for Europe or Israel. Her grandmother and grandfather were both Holocaust Survivors. Grandmother became a Rabbi and studied in Israel for a long time. Both were originally from Europe (Germany for Grandmother who then moved to Holland and Grandfather grew up in Austria and moved to Belgium).

So far our choices have been between the following:

1.) 10 Day trip to Israel- See the holy land, explore lots of history, get to go to some beaches, etc. One apprehension of traveling over there is the unstability in violence with its neighboring countries. Positives are weather is better, beaches and lots to do and most speak english.

2.) 10 Day trip to Europe- We are kicking around a few ideas but are not sure where to go. Thoughts were originally Amsterdamn and then Belgium to see where her grandparents lived but her parents went there 15 years ago and want to go somewhere different. Currently, we are looking into either Vienna, Austria and taking trains to Krakow, Poland to visit a concentration camp tour and maybe Prague. Not really sure what we are going to do yet.

I am seeking suggestions and opinions from anyone who has traveled that area before. I have never been Europe before so I have no clue about anything. We are trying to figure out the best place to travel in Europe where it owuld be easy to train or fly to some other countries. My sister in law is Austistic so we would like to visit a city that has some fun things to do and not just museums and sight seeing as she will get bored quickly without some type of interactive thing to stimulate her. However, we would like the trip to have a cultural and historical significance as one of the reasons we are going is to explore the history of her grandparents life and the holocaust.

So if you have been over to Eastern Europe and have some suggestions for me, I am all ears. Thanks in advance, I know this is pretty open ended but I am not sure where to start looking.


2015-02-09 11:27 AM
in reply to: dmbfan4life20

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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help
Originally posted by dmbfan4life20

Hello everyone

My family is trying to plan a vacation this year towards the end of May. Last year, my wifes grandmother passed away and left some money to her parents. The idea was brought up to use it to take a large family vacation to either Europe or Israel to see the sights that her grandmother saw. A little background on the reason for Europe or Israel. Her grandmother and grandfather were both Holocaust Survivors. Grandmother became a Rabbi and studied in Israel for a long time. Both were originally from Europe (Germany for Grandmother who then moved to Holland and Grandfather grew up in Austria and moved to Belgium).

So far our choices have been between the following:

1.) 10 Day trip to Israel- See the holy land, explore lots of history, get to go to some beaches, etc. One apprehension of traveling over there is the unstability in violence with its neighboring countries. Positives are weather is better, beaches and lots to do and most speak english.

2.) 10 Day trip to Europe- We are kicking around a few ideas but are not sure where to go. Thoughts were originally Amsterdamn and then Belgium to see where her grandparents lived but her parents went there 15 years ago and want to go somewhere different. Currently, we are looking into either Vienna, Austria and taking trains to Krakow, Poland to visit a concentration camp tour and maybe Prague. Not really sure what we are going to do yet.

I am seeking suggestions and opinions from anyone who has traveled that area before. I have never been Europe before so I have no clue about anything. We are trying to figure out the best place to travel in Europe where it owuld be easy to train or fly to some other countries. My sister in law is Austistic so we would like to visit a city that has some fun things to do and not just museums and sight seeing as she will get bored quickly without some type of interactive thing to stimulate her. However, we would like the trip to have a cultural and historical significance as one of the reasons we are going is to explore the history of her grandparents life and the holocaust.

So if you have been over to Eastern Europe and have some suggestions for me, I am all ears. Thanks in advance, I know this is pretty open ended but I am not sure where to start looking.


If it were up to me, I'd go to Europe over Israel, but not because I'd be worried about the violence there. For one thing, statistically, you're probably at greater risk of being in a car accident on your way to work than of being a victim of political violence in Israel. For another thing, while it probably won't make you feel much better, there have been terrorist acts in so many major European cities, you're probably as safe in Israel as anywhere else these days. (Can you see why I never became a travel agent?)

Again, if it were me, I'd be more inclined to celebrate the joyful part of your grandparents' lives by visiting and reveling in the beauty and culture of the cities in Europe where they lived, rather than feel compelled to visit a concentration camp or similar place. I think you'll get as much, if not more, out of a visit to the Holocaust museum in DC than you would touring Auschwitz or another camp. Austria and Prague are spectacular cities. Budapest is also. I haven't visited any of the camps, but just from what I know of them historically, many of them are not exactly centrally located and aren't necessarily easy to get to. There isn't much, if anything left of some of the camps. It's not a part of these countries' history that lots of people are keen on preserving or showing to the world, so it's not exactly like visiting the Smithsonian. If you're worried about your sister-in-law, I don't think there's much if anything interactive about any of these tours. (At least I hope not! What would an interactive exhibit at a conceentration camp look like?)
2015-02-10 5:01 AM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help
Second on Europe rather than Israel. Personally the security concerns would bother me, but I know everyone has a different threshold for that kind of thing. For someone with autism, also wondering if pat-downs, searches and the like could be upsetting. (I've taught kids on the spectrum and know some really reacted poorly to strangers touching them in any way.) All the cities you mentioned are beautiful. My mother and I aren't really museum people, but we enjoyed renting bikes and riding around (Vienna has an awesome network of trails extending in all directions around the city; you can ride out one way and take the train back or vice versa), going to musical performances, hanging out in coffeehouses, and just wandering. Vienna has a big amusement park--forget what it's called--near the city center. All the cities have nice parks. The central food markets and weekend markets selling crafts, etc. are also very interesting--I remember visiting them in Vienna and Budapest.

Concentration camps--can't really recommend them, but if its important, you could go. We did visit Terezin/Thereisenstadt on one bike trip. It should be a couple hours drive from Prague. It's a bit less visited than the others and very quiet. The area around it is haunting--it seems like a lot of places have just been left as they were since the end of WW2. It certainly was memorable. You don't have to do the tour--I did, but as I recall Mom was free just to walk around the grounds and the cemeteries, without paying an entrance fee.
2015-02-10 11:24 AM
in reply to: dmbfan4life20

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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help
Munich & Salzburg are as close as I've come to the places you've mentioned. If you end up considering that far west, I can give some ideas of things to do.

I can add my experience of visiting a holocaust site. I went to Dachau which is really easy to get to from Munich (30 minute train & 10 minute bus rides). Though not a fun way to pass time, I thought it was well worth the half day visit. Bavarian school children are required to visit one of the camps, so Dachau is well maintained & does a good job of expressing the "Never Again" plea. There is a museum (in the SS administration building that still stands), two replica barracks, rows of concrete slabs where all the barracks once stood, the roll call yard, guard towers, religious chapels & memorials that have been erected on the site since the war, and the gas chamber & crematorium. It's not a feel-good visit by any means...the film shown in the museum is brutal, the atmosphere is chilling, and there is no escaping the reality of the atrocities that occurred at the site. Personally, I found it emotionally moving on a level I never expected.
2015-02-10 1:08 PM
in reply to: Boilermaker

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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help
Originally posted by Boilermaker

Munich & Salzburg are as close as I've come to the places you've mentioned. If you end up considering that far west, I can give some ideas of things to do.

I can add my experience of visiting a holocaust site. I went to Dachau which is really easy to get to from Munich (30 minute train & 10 minute bus rides). Though not a fun way to pass time, I thought it was well worth the half day visit. Bavarian school children are required to visit one of the camps, so Dachau is well maintained & does a good job of expressing the "Never Again" plea. There is a museum (in the SS administration building that still stands), two replica barracks, rows of concrete slabs where all the barracks once stood, the roll call yard, guard towers, religious chapels & memorials that have been erected on the site since the war, and the gas chamber & crematorium. It's not a feel-good visit by any means...the film shown in the museum is brutal, the atmosphere is chilling, and there is no escaping the reality of the atrocities that occurred at the site. Personally, I found it emotionally moving on a level I never expected.


x2 for me visiting Dachau. I have also been to the Holocaust museum in DC and found it chilling too, but not the same as being in the same physical spot.

I have never been to Israel, but I lived in Vienna for 4 months and been to Europe maybe 6 times and seen quite a bit of it and would still go back. Israel is on my "to visit list" as well, it just never seems to make it to the top.
2015-02-10 7:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help

I'd put just about every western European country on my list before Israel.  I don't know why, but Israel sounds like a place I would visit only when trying to escape the zombie apocalypse.  Countries  in Europe I have visited and would gladly vacation again -- France and Spain.  I liked rural/alps/southern France more than Paris, but Paris and vicinity has a wealth of spectacular places to visit (and go check out Versailles).  Vacationed in Greece a couple of times, so I'd probably not put it above places I haven't visited and would like to see at least once.  I particularly enjoyed Barcelona.  I'd like to visit the northern countries, and Germany, Austria, Switzerland.  Spent some good time in England when I was younger, but wouldn't put it above the other places I've mentioned.  Wife would like to see Scotland someday, so I could go for that, too.

Edit: you can probably tie about any of those destinations to your grandmother / family heritage in some fashion.  Just plan a fun trip and go for it.



Edited by SevenZulu 2015-02-10 7:41 PM


2015-02-11 6:20 AM
in reply to: SevenZulu

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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help

I'm English (from and live in London) so am happy to help you out with information if you choose to travel to Europe.  Broadly speaking, the further West you are in Europe the more expensive it is.  However it also has the best infrastructure in terms of transport, hotels and generally the standard you would expect coming from the US.  The further East you go, the cheaper it is but there is still a hangover from the USSR in terms of infrastructure - it's still acceptable but the hotels aren't as good, the transport infrastructure not to so great and the general population is poorer.

Concentration camps are depressing.  I don't mean that disrespectfully, I mean it genuinely.  I visited one and it left me down for weeks.  It's astonishing what humans are capable of doing to each other.

If I were recommending a first time visitor to Europe in May (where the weather in northern Europe can be a bit crappy still) I'd suggest they go to Rome, Barcelona and (if you're a wine fan) Bordeaux.

If you're not too worried about the weather then northern cities like Berlin, Amsterdam and of course London are steeped in the kind of history you refer to.

London's normally a good place to start as we have Heathrow and you can go onto anywhere from there.  But Amsterdam's not bad for the same reason - Schipol is a huge airport with fantastic connections.

With that in mind I'd fly to London, spend a few days, then onto Berlin the finish up with a few days in Amsterdam.  The risk you're taking in May is with the rain but you might get lucky.

A less weather risky trip would be to Barcelona, Marseille and then finish in Rome where you can probably get a direct flight home.

Let me know if you want any information / advice.  Happy to help.

2015-02-12 12:59 PM
in reply to: Dan-L

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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help

I haven't been to Isreal, but I would not rule that out. I think the history and sites are worth the effort, especially since this is a special trip.  I would love to visit Jerusalem and the Dead Sea in particular. Maybe talk to a travel agent?

Belgium/Amsterdam: I think Belgium is really pretty but, well, kind of boring.  I have been to Brussels and from everything I have been told the value of other Belgium cities, like Bruges, is mostly architecture.  Since you have a mixed group, and aren't focused on museums, that would be a drag!  Other than a day or two, maybe.  Everything I have heard about Amsterdam is the same. I, personally, would like to see that city but I am thrilled to do museums, eat, and walk around.  Also, they are about as far away as you can get from the other places you mentioned.  Don't waste your whole trip on the train.

Germany/Austria: 

1.  The idea of visiting east Germany and Vienna is an entirely different trip from the Munich/Dachau trip that some here have talked about.  I have been to Munich, other parts of southern Germany,  and visited Dachau. I thought it was VERY neat and, as a trip idea alone, I would say it's a really fun trip for your group.  Lots of activities, easy to get around, etc.  Dachau is excellent.  All that said.... if you're trying to get a feel for what the Grandparents lived, you won't be. 

2.  I'd look more into the Vienna, etc idea.  You could also reasonably visit Berlin, which is so full of history.  There are, unfortunately, a lot of concentration camps to visit.  Auschwitz would be worth the effort, due to it's historical significance.   I am trying to figure out what visiting there would be like, if they have buildings still, etc.  The web site is proving more time consuming than I hoped, but it looks promising.  That's pretty far east of Vienna, but you mentioned visiting Poland so maybe that's ok. Also, Salzburg is about 300 miles from Vienna.  Salzburg is fun with activities, visiting salt mines, Sound of Music tour, etc.    I've found that Berlin, Prague, Vienna are all pretty connected by trains and have big airports, too.   I have not been to Vienna, but it's on the top of my list.

I love many other parts of Europe and if you decide to give up on the historical connections, and just look there generally, I could come up with other ideas.  For instance, I went on a bike tour in France to the D-Day sites and it was seriously the most fun. 

Good luck!

2015-02-15 7:16 AM
in reply to: BikerGrrrl

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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help
I wouldn't rule out Israel either. If you do strongly consider Israel, I'd recommend you also look into including a visit to Petra, Jordan. And definitely make sure the Dead Sea is on your itinerary.
2015-02-15 8:30 AM
in reply to: dmbfan4life20

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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help
I've never been to either city, but of the people I know who've travelled Europe extensively, Prague and Budapest consistently get rave reviews.

Your money tends to go a little further in Eastern Europe than in the north/western part. Amsterdam is a beautiful city and I absolutely loved Belgium (the beer was a big part of that), but for what you'd spend on a week there you could likely do two weeks in the east.

Another suggestion that is highly affordable would be the former Yugoslavia. Montenegro (Kotor specifically) has stunning geography and Dubrovnik is a really cool/gorgeous city, both very close to one another. Some cool parks and cities further up in Croatia and Belgrade has some cool stuff to see too. Lots of interesting history from Roman times to Ottoman Empire stuff, and the more recent war experiences of the 90s.

The concentration camp thing is pretty heavy. Worthwhile doing, but I felt really weird about the tourist thing - it just seemed so inappropriate to be part of the throngs of people snapping pictures left and right, touring through the site of such atrocities.
2015-02-17 9:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help
Germany is great..highly recommend Rothenberg, Garmisch and Heidelberg castle. I did visit a concentration camp, and I recommend it - I was 19 or so and I never forgot it.


2015-02-20 12:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help

I eventually want to get to Israel, but I'm a tad apprehensive and it's lower on my list.

I have been to Europe 4-5 times now and just can't get enough.  HOWEVER, mostly eastern/southern.  Italy, France, Great Britain, Spain, Turkey, etc.  I get excited just thinking about going back.

Istanbul, Paris and Rome are some of my most favorite cities.  Barcelona and Athens are great too.  You really can't go wrong if you have a bit of courage and want to tackle the public transportation.  It helps with costs and you can see so much more. - They are amazingly easy to use.

In Rome, if you have your walking shoes, you can see just about all the great ruins and Vatican just by walking.  Notre Dame, the Louvre, Eiffel Tower, Versailles are all easy train rides from each other.

I understand how the holy land is important, but if you can bust out some of the major bucket list items like the Eiffel Tower, Roman Coliseum, Palace of Versailles, Sagrada Família all in one shot?  Do it, IMO.

I'm sure people know more than me, but I can also give a few more detailed recommendations if you are thinking of those places.

Western/Northern Europe and Scandinavia are sort of next on our list - that and back to Asia for a more extended stay.  Eventually getting to South Africa and South America...

 

ETA:  It may not be for you, but a couple times we took a cruise.  That way, you "travel" at night and can see the next great city in the morning.  Do excursions or travel on your own.  We ended up bookending the cruise with extended stays in our embarking and disembarking cities.  That way we could cram as much in as possible.  I suggest some of the Mediterranean cruises.  After that we selected some of the best and made return trips to spend more time in the places we liked most and also get a bit more inland (Paris, etc).  They are also a economical way to travel considering the hotel costs on land and that meals are included.



Edited by Kido 2015-02-20 12:42 PM
2015-02-21 4:36 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Vacation Ideas- Need Help
I have done quite a lot of travelling in Europe, mainly in the West but I have been to a few of the Eastern countries.

Auschwitz is an incredible (not quite the right word) place to visit and is easily accessible from Krakov.

With 10 days I would try to minimise the amount of travelling you are doing. Amsterdam to Krakov for example would be a full day (or more) of travelling on a train. You could consider sleeper trains if you are planning on covering large distances.

Vienna and Bratislava are two very beautiful cities and are only about 40 mile apart. You could easily get to Prague and Budapest as well as Poland from here too.

If you decide on the Amsterdam option how about going on to Munich (not somewhere I have been) and then on to Venice, probably my favourite of the cities I have been to. Much bigger distance but you should be able to make use of the sleeper trains. From Venice, Rome, Pisa, Vienna etc are all within a few hours train journey away.

Will you be flying into and out of the same airport? If you are then a more circular route would be more time efficient than travelling down/across Europe then having to make a long journey back to the start.

ETA: The map below is from the Interrail website showing rough train travel times between major cities. Thought it might be useful. If you go to the website you will find a more detailed version.

Edited by tridantri 2015-02-21 4:38 AM




(travel-times-xl.jpg)



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