Other Resources The Political Joe » Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
Show Per page
 
 
of 2
 
 
2015-03-23 2:23 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Pro
15646
50005000500050010025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?

Originally posted by Dan-L

People want to live in a peaceful society but can't be bothered to engage in conversation with how to get one.  There's your problem.

 

I don't agree with that at all.  I think people want to live in a peaceful society but they are too worried about what everyone else is doing.  There is no shortage of people willing to engage in the conversation......but good luck getting them to agree to live and let live.  Seriously, how forking hard is it to not hate? If you can't figure that out then there really is no point in talking about it.....you're too stupid/ignorant. (not you, Dan-L......the haters) What is there to discuss?



Edited by Left Brain 2015-03-23 2:25 PM


2015-03-24 1:05 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Elite
4435
2000200010010010010025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
Originally posted by Left Brain

I think after the last 6 months of dealing with this crap I can't wait to retire to somewhere with a population of NOBODY.



New Zealand is nice.
2015-03-24 7:09 AM
in reply to: jobaxas

User image

Master
8122
500020001000100
Eugene, Oregon
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
Unless you are prejudiced against sheep.
2015-03-24 8:27 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner


286
100100252525
,
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
Originally posted by Hot Runner

Unless you are prejudiced against sheep.


lol
2015-03-24 8:57 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

User image

Pro
15646
50005000500050010025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?

Originally posted by Hot Runner Unless you are prejudiced against sheep.

I love sheep....................wait, no.

2015-03-24 12:01 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner


286
100100252525
,
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
Originally posted by Hot Runner

I will just continue to go to Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf here, and a local family-run place at home, because they have better, cheaper, coffee, (and because I like the people who run the local shop) and I don't want to be "stimulated" to talk about anything while enjoying my coffee. Anyway, I don't think the Starbucks in Vietnam would be in on the campaign....We must have some kind of world record in interracial couples so "racing together" is already the done thing!
Thanks for your comment--it's always interesting to see how other countries deal with topics such as these.


2015-03-24 3:11 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image


489
100100100100252525
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Dan-L

People want to live in a peaceful society but can't be bothered to engage in conversation with how to get one.  There's your problem.

 

I don't agree with that at all.  I think people want to live in a peaceful society but they are too worried about what everyone else is doing.  There is no shortage of people willing to engage in the conversation......but good luck getting them to agree to live and let live.  Seriously, how forking hard is it to not hate? If you can't figure that out then there really is no point in talking about it.....you're too stupid/ignorant. (not you, Dan-L......the haters) What is there to discuss?

That's a fair point.  I think people need to learn how to debate and argue.  Too often I get into a conversation with someone and I can tell that it won't be a debate where the other person is going to listen to an alternative point of view in order to develop their own and come to a common understanding.  I don't mean on the internet, i mean in real life. As you say - it's almost a wilful stupidity and ignorance.  People seem obsessed with being 'right' instead of trying to get to a better place.

I guess all we can do is try and encourage our kids to be more open minded and more tolerant and hope they do a better job than our generation is doing.

(And thanks for pointing out you weren't being specific to me but I didn't take it that way)

2015-03-24 3:38 PM
in reply to: Dan-L

User image

Pro
15646
50005000500050010025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?

Originally posted by Dan-L

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Dan-L

People want to live in a peaceful society but can't be bothered to engage in conversation with how to get one.  There's your problem.

 

I don't agree with that at all.  I think people want to live in a peaceful society but they are too worried about what everyone else is doing.  There is no shortage of people willing to engage in the conversation......but good luck getting them to agree to live and let live.  Seriously, how forking hard is it to not hate? If you can't figure that out then there really is no point in talking about it.....you're too stupid/ignorant. (not you, Dan-L......the haters) What is there to discuss?

That's a fair point.  I think people need to learn how to debate and argue.  Too often I get into a conversation with someone and I can tell that it won't be a debate where the other person is going to listen to an alternative point of view in order to develop their own and come to a common understanding.  I don't mean on the internet, i mean in real life. As you say - it's almost a wilful stupidity and ignorance.  People seem obsessed with being 'right' instead of trying to get to a better place.

I guess all we can do is try and encourage our kids to be more open minded and more tolerant and hope they do a better job than our generation is doing.

(And thanks for pointing out you weren't being specific to me but I didn't take it that way)

I make mistakes as a parent for certain.  But I'm just as sure that the one thing I have done right with my kids is to engrain the idea that "different from you" is just that.  It doesn't make you better, it doesn't make you right, it doesn't make you anything except different. 

I have told my kids from the beginning of their understanding my words.  You will ultimately be judged by how you treat other people.  (and I'm not talking about some judgement day or God)  And it's true.  Compassion toward other people is the greatest human virtue any of us can attain in this life IMO.  It will enrich your life and bring happiness to it.

My Grandpa once told me, "If you want to have a really happy life, find someone to help in some way every day, no matter how small or great the gesture is."  He was right........and the flip side of that, from my own experiences, is that if you want to be miserable in your life, hate someone or some group, it'll eat you up.

 

 

2015-03-25 7:23 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Master
8122
500020001000100
Eugene, Oregon
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
I'd say there IS racism here, despite the large number of interracial couples, but it's not (literally) a black and white matter. Within Vietnamese society, there are probably issues between the majority and the various ethnic minorities, but as a non-citizen, I'm not really privy to that. The racism that I see in my daily life has to do with expat (usually, but not always) white men being prejudiced against Western women and making blanket judgements about their Vietnamese counterparts. The interracial couples are overwhelmingly Western men with local women. (Although the number of couples with the opposite profile is slowly increasing.) I think this reflects both racial and gender stereotypes.

I was absolutely incensed when I saw an article in a local expat magazine (by/for expats, mainly) where an expat male was quoted as saying he only dates local women because expat women have "All let themselves go, physically, and have too much baggage." Excuse me????? We have a big expat community, including many fit, active women of all ages and races, and I could count on one hand the number of Western women I've met who could possibly fit that description; most of them are already married and/or over 50 and not in this dude's target demographic anyway. And how can one assume that just because a woman happens to be Vietnamese that she has no "baggage"? Bad relationships, family drama, domestic violence, drug problems, any "baggage" you might think of, happen in any society. Not only sexist but, since we are judging "all" women simply because they are Western or Vietnamese, racist. Just to say, racism comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors. Even judging someone positively because of their race, rather than by their individual character, can be a form of racism when it keeps us from really knowing someone as an individual.

It's a conversation that doesn't really happen, publicly, and probably should. But please, not by force at my coffee shop.

Edited by Hot Runner 2015-03-25 7:31 AM
2015-03-25 9:29 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

User image

Pro
15646
50005000500050010025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?

I think the problem with discussions involving race, religion. sexual preference, etc. is that everyone wants to come at it from a position of "we are all the same", or "we are all equal".  You know what......that's bullchit.  We are NOT all the same and we aren't even all equal.  We are all DIFFERENT and life's circumstances sometime dictate that we are all NOT all equal.  That's where the conversation should be.  If you want to solve the hatred then it has to be celebrated that we are all different, and sometimes not equal.  That's the best part of life, not the worst.

2015-03-25 1:50 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Champion
7821
50002000500100100100
Brooklyn, NY
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
Originally posted by Left Brain

I think the problem with discussions involving race, religion. sexual preference, etc. is that everyone wants to come at it from a position of "we are all the same", or "we are all equal".  You know what......that's bullchit.  We are NOT all the same and we aren't even all equal.  We are all DIFFERENT and life's circumstances sometime dictate that we are all NOT all equal.  That's where the conversation should be.  If you want to solve the hatred then it has to be celebrated that we are all different, and sometimes not equal.  That's the best part of life, not the worst.




Yeah, I agree with that. Definitely the "we are all different" part. I think the "we're not always equal" part is ok too, in general, but I do think you have to consider the factors that create that inequality and ensure that, as a country, the burden of that inequality doesn't overwhelmingly fall on a small number.

I don't have a problem with saying, "Hey, Ferraris are expensive. Not everyone gets to own a Ferrari." I don't even really have a problem with saying, "Ivy league universities are expensive. Not everyone can afford to go to an Ivy league university." But if the overwhelming majority of people who own Ferraris and (especially) who go to Ivy League schools all come from the same ethnic group, then I think it's time to take a look and ensure that we as a society aren't creating conditions that favor the success of some people at the expense of others.



2015-03-25 2:09 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

User image

Pro
15646
50005000500050010025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn
Originally posted by Left Brain

I think the problem with discussions involving race, religion. sexual preference, etc. is that everyone wants to come at it from a position of "we are all the same", or "we are all equal".  You know what......that's bullchit.  We are NOT all the same and we aren't even all equal.  We are all DIFFERENT and life's circumstances sometime dictate that we are all NOT all equal.  That's where the conversation should be.  If you want to solve the hatred then it has to be celebrated that we are all different, and sometimes not equal.  That's the best part of life, not the worst.

Yeah, I agree with that. Definitely the "we are all different" part. I think the "we're not always equal" part is ok too, in general, but I do think you have to consider the factors that create that inequality and ensure that, as a country, the burden of that inequality doesn't overwhelmingly fall on a small number. I don't have a problem with saying, "Hey, Ferraris are expensive. Not everyone gets to own a Ferrari." I don't even really have a problem with saying, "Ivy league universities are expensive. Not everyone can afford to go to an Ivy league university." But if the overwhelming majority of people who own Ferraris and (especially) who go to Ivy League schools all come from the same ethnic group, then I think it's time to take a look and ensure that we as a society aren't creating conditions that favor the success of some people at the expense of others.

I see your point, and I knew the "equal" thing would be hard to quantify, but impossible to ignore in the fictitious  discussion.  I was thinking more in terms of physical attributes we are born with, or without.  There can be advantages and disadvantages to many physical qualities.....we aren't equal.  Being born into circumstances also come to mind.  I can't financially keep up with people born to old money........and that's just too bad.  Life is not always fair......it doesn't mean anyone owes you, or has an obligation to make things "even". 

 

2015-03-25 2:21 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Regular
525
50025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
LB I enjoy reading your posts. You have a very interesting view of the world and I appreciate it.

As for the Race Together campaign, when I first saw it I thought Starbucks was promoting some sort of actual race. Boy was I disappointed.
2015-03-25 2:42 PM
in reply to: Its Only Money

User image

Champion
7821
50002000500100100100
Brooklyn, NY
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
Originally posted by Its Only Money

LB I enjoy reading your posts. You have a very interesting view of the world and I appreciate it.

As for the Race Together campaign, when I first saw it I thought Starbucks was promoting some sort of actual race. Boy was I disappointed.


That, in retrospect, would have been a better idea.
2015-03-25 3:14 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

User image

Pro
15646
50005000500050010025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn
Originally posted by Left Brain

As for Starbucks getting involved in racial discussion.....give me a damn break.  I spend quite a bit of time in all black neighborhoods........you couldn't find a Starbucks coffee shop if you spent the next year looking for one.  Maybe if someone at Starbucks makes the mistake of engaging me in a discussion about race problems I'll ask them if we can move the discussion to their shop at MLK Blvd and N. Grand in St. Louis.  Oh.......wait.

Idiots.

Heh, that's actually an excellent point also. I agree with you about stupid hateful people. Trouble is, in my experience anyway, stupid hateful people tend to flock together, so none of them realize that in the context of society as a whole, they're stupid and hateful. They just think they're like everyone else. You think those morons at the University of Oklahoma would have let that nonsense wind up on YouTube if they didn't believe that the whole world would find it as funny as they did? For that reason, I do think there's some value in getting people outside of their usual insular circles talking about uncomfortable subjects.

I was looking back for something in this thread and saw this post that I had missed.  You have hit on an excellent point, Jim.  IMO .....You have to be willing to get away from people who will only validate your own viewpoint in order to see "different" as something that's not threatening and actually a good thing.  I didn't do that willfully, but my job over 3 decades forced me to.....and my eyes were opened by it.  It was funny over the years, because it didn't start out as "all people are good" in my mind.......in fact, it was quite the opposite.  I decided after about 10 years or so that pretty much everyone had the capability to be as much of an azzhole as everyone else, no matter their station or lot in life.  Somehow, as I got older and matured that morphed into pretty much everyone has the capability to be kind, compassionate, and helpful to other people, no matter their station or lot in life.  Once I started to look at life from that perspective it was easy to accept  people with different viewpoints/values/morals then my own.  I have no idea how it works for other people, but it made my life a lot happier.

2015-03-25 8:09 PM
in reply to: 0


286
100100252525
,
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
What's sad is that so many people who are racist and/or sexist and/or bigoted in whatever way that they are, don't see the wrong in their behavior. I was taught to respect everyone equally, as a kid. And so I do.

But I'm reminded that it is often in how one is raised, as to how he/she will treat others when he/she becomes an adult. Fruit often doesn't fall far from the tree. It is surprising to me that adults need to be taught how to treat others with dignity and respect...equally. I'm not all that confident that such a level of ignorance or willful bigotry could be lifted over a few minutes of chat while purchasing a coffee at SB.

Edited by SGirl 2015-03-25 8:10 PM


2015-03-25 8:20 PM
in reply to: Its Only Money


286
100100252525
,
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
Originally posted by Its Only Money


As for the Race Together campaign, when I first saw it I thought Starbucks was promoting some sort of actual race. Boy was I disappointed.


LOL!
2015-03-25 8:22 PM
in reply to: SGirl

User image

Pro
15646
50005000500050010025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?

Originally posted by SGirl What's sad is that so many people who are racist and/or sexist and/or bigoted in whatever way that they are, don't see the wrong in their behavior. I was taught to respect everyone equally, as a kid. And so I do. But I'm reminded that it is often in how one is raised, as to how he/she will treat others when he/she becomes an adult. Fruit often doesn't fall far from the tree. It is surprising to me that adults need to be taught how to treat others with dignity and respect...equally. I'm not all that confident that such a level of ignorance or willful bigotry could be lifted over a few minutes of chat while purchasing a coffee at SB.

I had to learn it as an adult.  I'm ashamed of some of my views as a younger man.

My kids won't.

2015-03-25 8:41 PM
in reply to: 0


286
100100252525
,
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
deleted/ dupe post.

Edited by SGirl 2015-03-25 8:43 PM
2015-03-25 8:41 PM
in reply to: 0


286
100100252525
,
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by SGirl What's sad is that so many people who are racist and/or sexist and/or bigoted in whatever way that they are, don't see the wrong in their behavior. I was taught to respect everyone equally, as a kid. And so I do. But I'm reminded that it is often in how one is raised, as to how he/she will treat others when he/she becomes an adult. Fruit often doesn't fall far from the tree. It is surprising to me that adults need to be taught how to treat others with dignity and respect...equally. I'm not all that confident that such a level of ignorance or willful bigotry could be lifted over a few minutes of chat while purchasing a coffee at SB.

I had to learn it as an adult.  I'm ashamed of some of my views as a younger man.

My kids won't.




Really? That surprises me, but glad you eventually did.

Growing up, without getting into the details, I had not an ideal childhood, putting it lightly. Like many people probably. And I tended to feel like the odd girl out all of the time at school, etc. That feeling of being different or having a different family than other kids, shaped me too. I cringe when I see bullying, and sometimes, it's all about walking a mile in someone else's shoes,

I have kids too, and I've taught them a compassionate worldview. They told me that they don't like the word 'tolerant,' because it still has a negative, hating ring to it. I happen to agree.

Being 'tolerant' of diversity is the bare minimum of what we should be doing as human beings.



Edited by SGirl 2015-03-25 8:43 PM
2015-03-25 8:50 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Pro
15646
50005000500050010025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?

I'm a Midwest kid........we're pretty intolerant of everybody.  

My wife is from California.  I learned much from her, and the rest from dealing with people over the years.  My views now still don't fit with many of the people I know and I'm actually still quite conservative politically, as I was raised. (as you rightly pointed out)  Luckily I was able to realize that my conservative political views didn't have to mean intolerance and not being acceptant (is that a word???) of other people and their views.  I like good people.....I don't really care how they're bent.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-03-25 8:51 PM


2015-03-26 2:06 PM
in reply to: SGirl


286
100100252525
,
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
That’s good to hear. We’re all works in progress, at the end of the day.

Yeah, it does seem to be a consistent theme whether intentional or not, that conservatives are somewhat more ‘’intolerant’’ (for want of a better word lol) than other groups.

I think I might go to SB this weekend!
2015-03-26 2:14 PM
in reply to: SGirl

User image

Pro
15646
50005000500050010025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?

What is SB?

2015-03-26 2:22 PM
in reply to: Left Brain


286
100100252525
,
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?
Originally posted by Left Brain

What is SB?




Starbucks haha
2015-03-26 2:29 PM
in reply to: SGirl

User image

Pro
15646
50005000500050010025
Subject: RE: Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea?

Duh!  HAHAHAHA!!

New Thread
Other Resources The Political Joe » Starbucks and its 'race together' campaign --good or bad idea? Rss Feed  
Show Per page
 
 
of 2
 
 
RELATED POSTS

Two great tastes that taste even better together?

Started by switch
Views: 1173 Posts: 17

2014-02-26 2:56 PM switch

facts are the worst!

Started by dmiller5
Views: 1590 Posts: 14

2013-10-28 1:47 PM Ron

Good Article

Started by JoshR
Views: 1266 Posts: 4

2013-10-24 4:05 PM JoshR

I think we need better gun control...

Started by tuwood
Views: 1840 Posts: 19

2013-09-27 6:08 AM DanielG

Just when you think life can't get any worse

Started by BrianRunsPhilly
Views: 931 Posts: 3

2013-08-16 10:17 AM Pector55
RELATED ARTICLES
date : March 20, 2014
author : Tre_bor
comments : 0
This is part three of a five part series on how to train for an Iron distance race. In this article I would like to try to offer up some information about how to get through the bike unscathed.
 
date : April 26, 2010
author : mrakes1
comments : 0
Discussions on good vs bad sugars, fluid loss replacement, clean eating, the Paleo diet and are gels necessary for olympic races.
date : February 22, 2010
author : AMSSM
comments : 0
I've seen posts on chronic achilles pain, but nothing on recovery from surgery. I don't know the difference between the good pain and the bad when training.
 
date : December 24, 2008
author : mrakes1
comments : 0
Discussions on sweet snacking ideas, protein ideas for vegetarians, premenstrual cravings, eating with a cold, bodybuilding to triathlete and feeling tired.
date : December 11, 2007
author : Nancy Clark
comments : 1
Searching for the perfect gift for a friend, relative, or teammate? Here's a list of winning book suggestions for active people.
 
date : July 3, 2006
author : mrakes1
comments : 0
As we speak, a team of scientists, biochemists and nutritionists are performing experiments on the upcoming revolutionary product for improving your athletic performance.