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2015-03-24 8:50 AM

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Subject: flip turns or open turns??
After swimming for almost a decade and having completed tens of thousands of laps, I can't imagine not using flip turns. They get me into a swimming groove. Though they help me swim better in practice, I've never used a flip turn in a triathlon.

Do you think its better to use flip turns or open turns in swim training?


If you're interested in improving your flip turns, I have some rules and tips that might help you become more proficient in them.


1. Pull into the turn. Don't stop swimming

2. Don't break the box; knees form a 90 degree angle.

3. Flip straight. Push off on your back or side.

Tip: If you have trouble with the somersault part of flip turns, hold onto the lane line to practice flipping straight over.

Tip: If you are having trouble landing your feet on the wall during flip turns, kick while holding on to the wall and practice flipping at your arm’s length.

For more help on learning how to properly execute flip turns, check out the article below.

http://ironswimming.com/flip-turns/

Edited by ironswimming 2015-03-24 9:17 AM


2015-03-24 8:57 AM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??
Originally posted by ironswimming

After swimming for almost a decade and having completed tens of thousands of laps, I can't imagine not using flip turns. They get me into a swimming groove. Though they help me swim better in practice, I've never used a flip turn in a race.

Do you think its better to use flip turns or open turns in swim training?


If you're interested in improving your flip turns, I have some rules and tips that might help you become more proficient in them.


1. Pull into the turn. Don't stop swimming

2. Don't break the box; knees form a 90 degree angle.

3. Flip straight. Push off on your back or side.

Tip: If you have trouble with the somersault part of flip turns, hold onto the lane line to practice flipping straight over.

Tip: If you are having trouble landing your feet on the wall during flip turns, kick while holding on to the wall and practice flipping at your arm’s length.

For more help on learning how to properly execute flip turns, check out the article below.

http://ironswimming.com/flip-turns/


Why have you never done a flip turn in a race?

I've been doing flip turns for 35 years and can't imagine not doing them. I even do them in an open water turn around if no one is nearby.
2015-03-24 9:01 AM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??
You don't stop every 25 metres/yards in open water. Flip turns are a more realistic simulation for open water, like you I can't imagine doing open turns.
2015-03-24 9:13 AM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??
After swimming for over three decades, I do flip turns without thinking about them.

Here are my tips:

1. Go back in time to when you were 7 years old

2. Join the swim team at your local pool

3. Learn to do flip turns when you're 8-10 years old

4. Know how to do them for your entire life

5. Be faster than 90% of the adult onset swimmers you'll compete against in triathlon when you're an adult


Sorry, but I don't have a website to spam you with.
2015-03-24 9:17 AM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

A nice skill to have, but not essential for successful triathlon swimning.

Mark

2015-03-24 9:17 AM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??


2015-03-24 9:26 AM
in reply to: RedCorvette

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

Originally posted by RedCorvette

A nice skill to have, but not essential for successful triathlon swimning.

Mark

Ditto ^.  To each there own.

2015-03-24 9:58 AM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??
Who the hell cares?

Do them.
Don't do them.
Figure out which works for you and keep on trucking.

2015-03-24 10:08 AM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

The folks at the front of the swim in a triathlon are perfectly content with you never learning to do them and use them in practice.

2015-03-24 10:16 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

Originally posted by Left Brain

The folks at the front of the swim in a triathlon are perfectly content with you never learning to do them and use them in practice.

I have a feeling it would take a lot more than flip turns for most of us to average 1:10-1:15/100 in a sprint.

2015-03-24 10:25 AM
in reply to: ironswimming


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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??
What annoys me is the people doing some variation of breast stroke in triathlons, I bet they use one hand touches in the pool.


2015-03-24 10:32 AM
in reply to: Sidney Porter

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??
I find the open turn more accurately simulates the "I just got kicked in the face...where the hell is the buoy?" part of a race.
2015-03-24 10:38 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

Originally posted by Left Brain

The folks at the front of the swim in a triathlon are perfectly content with you never learning to do them and use them in practice.

Yes! Also, keep doing those long, steady state swims as a regular part of training

2015-03-24 11:18 AM
in reply to: schaumi


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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??
Originally posted by schaumi

After swimming for over three decades, I do flip turns without thinking about them.

Here are my tips:

1. Go back in time to when you were 7 years old

2. Join the swim team at your local pool

3. Learn to do flip turns when you're 8-10 years old

4. Know how to do them for your entire life

5. Be faster than 90% of the adult onset swimmers you'll compete against in triathlon when you're an adult


Sorry, but I don't have a website to spam you with.


Thanks for the tips! Let me just turn on my time machine.
While I'm at it, I'll go back to when I was 14 and gave up on the idea of actually doing fitness. Then I'll jump to 16 to when I discovered pizza and Taco Bell and fix that. And 21 (I will state 21 for legal reasons, it may or may not actually have been when I was 21....I am old enough to have been grandfathered to Louisiana where I could still get a beer at 18 during their changeover window) and take care of that too.

Starting all this at age 40+ isn't easy. Man, I wish I would have known what I know now about what fitness does for my life.

In all reality, I can do them. I just find that the problems I have aren't the mechanics. It's the breathing. And breath catching that I'm either subconsciously and often consciously adding to my laps/lengths. I keep telling myself it's like taking a moment to find a buoy. I tell myself a lot of things.
2015-03-24 11:25 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Left Brain

The folks at the front of the swim in a triathlon are perfectly content with you never learning to do them and use them in practice.

I have a feeling it would take a lot more than flip turns for most of us to average 1:10-1:15/100 in a sprint.

yeah, its called hard work and attention to detail. Part of that is learning and using flip turns.

2015-03-24 11:53 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Left Brain

The folks at the front of the swim in a triathlon are perfectly content with you never learning to do them and use them in practice.

I have a feeling it would take a lot more than flip turns for most of us to average 1:10-1:15/100 in a sprint.




1:10-1:15/100 is a set of 100's not a sprint.


2015-03-24 11:58 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Left Brain

The folks at the front of the swim in a triathlon are perfectly content with you never learning to do them and use them in practice.

I have a feeling it would take a lot more than flip turns for most of us to average 1:10-1:15/100 in a sprint.

1:10-1:15/100 is a set of 100's not a sprint.

or its a common way to measure and talk about your pace during a race....

2015-03-24 11:59 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Left Brain

The folks at the front of the swim in a triathlon are perfectly content with you never learning to do them and use them in practice.

I have a feeling it would take a lot more than flip turns for most of us to average 1:10-1:15/100 in a sprint.

1:10-1:15/100 is a set of 100's not a sprint.

He meant as an average pace in a sprint triathlon.

2015-03-24 12:22 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

 

From OP,  "Though they help me swim better in practice".

Maybe someone could expand a bit on exactly why this is so?? 

2015-03-24 12:48 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??
Personally, I definitely notice that I can more easily get in the zone during swims when I do flip turns. I find that laps flow together more with flip turns. The starting and stopping of open turns break up the swimming. I'm also more tempted to stop with open turns or hand on the wall for an extra breath.
2015-03-24 1:17 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Left Brain

The folks at the front of the swim in a triathlon are perfectly content with you never learning to do them and use them in practice.

I have a feeling it would take a lot more than flip turns for most of us to average 1:10-1:15/100 in a sprint.

1:10-1:15/100 is a set of 100's not a sprint.

He meant as an average pace in a sprint triathlon.

Correct, and the faster guys go that fast.



2015-03-24 1:38 PM
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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

Originally posted by ironswimming Personally, I definitely notice that I can more easily get in the zone during swims when I do flip turns. I find that laps flow together more with flip turns. The starting and stopping of open turns break up the swimming. I'm also more tempted to stop with open turns or hand on the wall for an extra breath.

I appreciate your thoughts but if I can get in the zone and not take an extra breath or pause at the wall why do so many people imply that if I don't do flip turns I'm violating a foundation training principle (like only swimming steady state)?  Is an open turn really that detrimental?



Edited by popsracer 2015-03-24 1:39 PM
2015-03-24 1:40 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by ironswimming Personally, I definitely notice that I can more easily get in the zone during swims when I do flip turns. I find that laps flow together more with flip turns. The starting and stopping of open turns break up the swimming. I'm also more tempted to stop with open turns or hand on the wall for an extra breath.

I appreciate your thoughts but if I can get in the zone and not take an extra breath or pause at the wall why do so many people imply that if I don't do flip turns I'm violating a foundation training principle (like only swimming steady state)?

Well, every turn you are practicing your streamline, so you're missing out on that. Water feel, continuity in your workout, and your breakouts are all swim skills that DO matter in open water.

2015-03-24 1:50 PM
in reply to: #5102993

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??
I find doing flip turns reduces the chance of a third person asking to join your lane and circle swim. That has a huge impact on my workouts.
2015-03-24 1:52 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: flip turns or open turns??

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by ironswimming Personally, I definitely notice that I can more easily get in the zone during swims when I do flip turns. I find that laps flow together more with flip turns. The starting and stopping of open turns break up the swimming. I'm also more tempted to stop with open turns or hand on the wall for an extra breath.

I appreciate your thoughts but if I can get in the zone and not take an extra breath or pause at the wall why do so many people imply that if I don't do flip turns I'm violating a foundation training principle (like only swimming steady state)?

Well, every turn you are practicing your streamline, so you're missing out on that. Water feel, continuity in your workout, and your breakouts are all swim skills that DO matter in open water.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand the points being made in defense of the flip turn.  How is it different when I push off from the wall with an open turn or a flip turn in terms of practicing my streamlining?  I do focus on water feel and streamlining as I push off from my open turn.

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