login
Wetsuits and KQ
-
No new posts
|
 2015-05-08 8:49 AM |
 1502   Katy, Texas |  Subject: Wetsuits and KQAs far as my understanding is, if the water temp is between 76-82 then you can wear a wetsuit but you can't qualify for Kona or any age group awards, is that correct? I am doing IMTX next week and it looks likely that the water will be in that temperature range. There is also an infinitesimal shot that I could qualify for Kona...I mean a loooooong shot. But it still exists. So I have a few questions: 1. I'm honestly not a huge fan of wetsuits and I'm a strong swimmer so it wouldn't break my heart to forgo its use 2. How do they enforce that? I just can't see how that is possible unless they have someone noting who is wearing one and who is not at the beginning, but that would be a daunting task. 3. Given #2 above, does anyone actually follow that rule, or is it just known to be unenforceable? My concern is that #3 is the case and that if I choose not to wear one in that condition and my peers do, my 1% chance of qualifying just dropped to 0% from their advantage in the water. At the same time I am a stickler for rules, I love rules and I'd prefer to follow all of them...I'm the guy who actually waits at every red light when riding whether there is traffic coming or not (it helps to live on an island that only had two traffic lights in a 20 mile stretch of road, but hey, I had to stop this morning). In my opinion, two scenarios that would stink would be: A. If I wore the wetsuit and place to qualify for Kona but lose it due to the wetsuit B. Not wear it, all my peers do and I barely miss qualifying to folks who wore them anyway |
| 2015-05-08 8:52 AM in reply to: 3mar |
| 2015-05-08 9:01 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
New user 175  Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Not trying to be the rude guy here, but that answer doesn't address his question. His questions wasn't what are the rules, but how are they inforced, which is completely different. I'm sorry IMTX will be my first as well so I can't help you on how they actually check people for wetsuits or not. But... I can tell you that I will NOT be wearing mine and I WILL GET YOUR KONA SLOT!!! So you don't have anything to worry about.  Just kidding of course about the slot. It is a good question, swim starts are such a cattle roundup that I can't see how they are checking people for suits and numbers.. But hopefully they have a good way and we will be proved wrong in our guesses. Good luck at IMTX.... I'll be waiting..... muhahaha. |
| 2015-05-08 9:04 AM in reply to: 3mar |
| Member 587 | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Not sure how WTC handles that situation but in the races I have done when the water temp falls within that range, anyone who chooses to wear the wetsuit goes in last in their own wave. Chances are slim that anyone who is fast enough to KQ, would wear a wetsuit in that situation. Most people who choose to wear a wetsuit in that case are poor swimmers who don't believe they can make it w/o the wetsuit. |
| 2015-05-08 9:05 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| 2015-05-08 9:05 AM in reply to: toodamnbroke |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Originally posted by toodamnbroke Not trying to be the rude guy here, but that answer doesn't address his question. His questions wasn't what are the rules, but how are they inforced, which is completely different. I'm sorry IMTX will be my first as well so I can't help you on how they actually check people for wetsuits or not. But... I can tell you that I will NOT be wearing mine and I WILL GET YOUR KONA SLOT!!! So you don't have anything to worry about. Just kidding of course about the slot. It is a good question, swim starts are such a cattle roundup that I can't see how they are checking people for suits and numbers.. But hopefully they have a good way and we will be proved wrong in our guesses. Good luck at IMTX.... I'll be waiting..... muhahaha. well it would be cheating to wear one and take a slot....so I figured that would answer the moral dilemna |
| 2015-05-08 9:07 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Champion 5529 Nashville, TN | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Originally posted by 3mar As far as my understanding is, if the water temp is between 76-82 then you can wear a wetsuit but you can't qualify for Kona or any age group awards, is that correct? I am doing IMTX next week and it looks likely that the water will be in that temperature range. There is also an infinitesimal shot that I could qualify for Kona...I mean a loooooong shot. But it still exists. So I have a few questions: 1. I'm honestly not a huge fan of wetsuits and I'm a strong swimmer so it wouldn't break my heart to forgo its use 2. How do they enforce that? I just can't see how that is possible unless they have someone noting who is wearing one and who is not at the beginning, but that would be a daunting task. 3. Given #2 above, does anyone actually follow that rule, or is it just known to be unenforceable? My concern is that #3 is the case and that if I choose not to wear one in that condition and my peers do, my 1% chance of qualifying just dropped to 0% from their advantage in the water. At the same time I am a stickler for rules, I love rules and I'd prefer to follow all of them...I'm the guy who actually waits at every red light when riding whether there is traffic coming or not (it helps to live on an island that only had two traffic lights in a 20 mile stretch of road, but hey, I had to stop this morning). In my opinion, two scenarios that would stink would be: A. If I wore the wetsuit and place to qualify for Kona but lose it due to the wetsuit B. Not wear it, all my peers do and I barely miss qualifying to folks who wore them anyway Generally, they pull all wetsuit athletes out of line and make them start all the way in the back. Theoretically they either take down their number or at least know the start time of the first person in a wetsuit. Skip the wetsuit. I couldn't imagine a worse scenario than getting a kona slot but knowing that you have to give it up due to a decision you made 10 hours earlier. |
| 2015-05-08 9:10 AM in reply to: toodamnbroke |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Originally posted by toodamnbroke Not trying to be the rude guy here, but that answer doesn't address his question. His questions wasn't what are the rules, but how are they inforced, which is completely different. I'm sorry IMTX will be my first as well so I can't help you on how they actually check people for wetsuits or not. But... I can tell you that I will NOT be wearing mine and I WILL GET YOUR KONA SLOT!!! So you don't have anything to worry about. Just kidding of course about the slot. It is a good question, swim starts are such a cattle roundup that I can't see how they are checking people for suits and numbers.. But hopefully they have a good way and we will be proved wrong in our guesses. Good luck at IMTX.... I'll be waiting..... muhahaha. I figured I'd get one of those answers, but didn't think it'd be the first response. Anyway, you're totally in my age group too....dang. So honestly, what time range are you thinking? I've heard anything from 9:40 to 10:15 has KQed in this race in the past for our AG. Are you going to forgo the wetsuit for that reason? |
| 2015-05-08 9:20 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by toodamnbroke Not trying to be the rude guy here, but that answer doesn't address his question. His questions wasn't what are the rules, but how are they inforced, which is completely different. I'm sorry IMTX will be my first as well so I can't help you on how they actually check people for wetsuits or not. But... I can tell you that I will NOT be wearing mine and I WILL GET YOUR KONA SLOT!!! So you don't have anything to worry about. Just kidding of course about the slot. It is a good question, swim starts are such a cattle roundup that I can't see how they are checking people for suits and numbers.. But hopefully they have a good way and we will be proved wrong in our guesses. Good luck at IMTX.... I'll be waiting..... muhahaha. well it would be cheating to wear one and take a slot....so I figured that would answer the moral dilemna To reiterate my concerns they are: A. If I wore the wetsuit and place to qualify for Kona but lose it due to the wetsuit B. Not wear it, all my peers do and I barely miss qualifying to folks who wore them anyway In both scenarios I wouldn't be cheating, in A I would wear it and not have the slot due to wearing it and B would mean I don't wear it and not have my spot because everyone else is. I guess I should have worded it better and said, "I sure as h@ll hope they have a way to enforce it...I just can't see how they could". My bigger concern is that it's one of those rules that is just known not to be enforced and therefore nobody does it and I'm just out of the loop. Edited by 3mar 2015-05-08 9:20 AM |
| 2015-05-08 9:21 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ so don't wear one, and race legally. can't live afraid of cheaters, just race your best |
| 2015-05-08 9:47 AM in reply to: 3mar |
New user 175 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by toodamnbroke Not trying to be the rude guy here, but that answer doesn't address his question. His questions wasn't what are the rules, but how are they inforced, which is completely different. I'm sorry IMTX will be my first as well so I can't help you on how they actually check people for wetsuits or not. But... I can tell you that I will NOT be wearing mine and I WILL GET YOUR KONA SLOT!!! So you don't have anything to worry about. Just kidding of course about the slot. It is a good question, swim starts are such a cattle roundup that I can't see how they are checking people for suits and numbers.. But hopefully they have a good way and we will be proved wrong in our guesses. Good luck at IMTX.... I'll be waiting..... muhahaha. I figured I'd get one of those answers, but didn't think it'd be the first response. Anyway, you're totally in my age group too....dang. So honestly, what time range are you thinking? I've heard anything from 9:40 to 10:15 has KQed in this race in the past for our AG. Are you going to forgo the wetsuit for that reason? I was totally playing. I won't be your KQ competition. This being my first IM and the fact that I'm just not that fast I'll be shooting for 11ish-12ish range, maybe slower who knows. |
| 2015-05-08 10:01 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ KQ in your first ironman is a pretty lofty goal. I'd really focus on just enjoying the first one and getting the finish in while giving it your best. KQ adds a whole level of pressure that will complicate your first go at that distance. The guys that are going for a KQ slot have been training specifically for that up to a year before the race. No matter how ready you think you are, they are far more prepared. ETA: This probably puts me in the jerk pile, but wanted to throw it out there. Edited by msteiner 2015-05-08 10:02 AM |
| 2015-05-08 10:06 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ It is enforced if they announce the temp requires it to be enforced. There is widespread belief that if the temp is 'close', they will find a spot to take the temp so they can declare it legal. But then it is legal for everyone, so still no concern for you. So don't worry about it. |
| 2015-05-08 10:34 AM in reply to: msteiner |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Originally posted by msteiner KQ in your first ironman is a pretty lofty goal. I'd really focus on just enjoying the first one and getting the finish in while giving it your best. KQ adds a whole level of pressure that will complicate your first go at that distance. The guys that are going for a KQ slot have been training specifically for that up to a year before the race. No matter how ready you think you are, they are far more prepared. ETA: This probably puts me in the jerk pile, but wanted to throw it out there. I really didn't want this one to side track to the odds of qualifying. It's not on my radar. I have a race plan and it has nothing to do with Kona. This is one of those just-in-case type scenarios, where everything happens to fall into place for me and not for the other guys and in that scenario I decided to wear a wetsuit and lose it, or not wear a wetsuit and I come within one place of someone going and it turns out wearing a wetsuit is like peeing in the pool, everyone does it. So yeah, I get the pointy end of the stick thing....that's where the 1% chance came in...and I was probably being generous, but IF...IF...IF that happened and I couldn't take advantage of it, that would be heartbreaking. Here's another way to put it...I'm pretty damn sure I'm not going to get into a car accident when I go to buy bubble wrap to pack my bike...I'm just about certain of it, but I certainly will be wearing a seat belt, because, IF the stars align and something happens, I want to be prepared, that's the point. And yeah, the smart/quick answer is, "Don't wear it then" but again, I am just curious on how it is enforced, is it enforced at all, is it like peeing in the pool and everyone does it any, those types of things. |
| 2015-05-08 10:37 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ I've seen races where all people deciding to use their wet suite goes in the last heat. and I've seen then when they send you through a narrow chute (at the timing mat) and write down your number. In any case if your good enough to come close to a KQ, why would even contemplate wearing a wet suite if the water is too warm. |
| 2015-05-08 10:43 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Depends on the race There are 3 scenarios a) Wetsuit legal - this is easy b) Wetsuit optional - non eligible for AG awards on WC slots c) Wetsuit illegal - temeprature is so high it is dangerous to swim with a wetsuit You are talking about b. Water temp is above 76.1 but below 8x....I forget the exact number. Let's say 82 They usually have a wave that starts after everyone else. People in that wave are identified when they cross the mat BEFORE the swim. You get a finisher's medal, a result....but you are not eligible for a WC slot. Everyone thought Galveston would be WS legal and it wasn't. There was a huge wave of people that chose to wear one FYI, you want b or c. While it will slow you down it will be less than the other guys. Pray for no wetsuit if you really want to KQ Edited by marcag 2015-05-08 10:47 AM |
| 2015-05-08 10:58 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Originally posted by marcag Depends on the race There are 3 scenarios a) Wetsuit legal - this is easy b) Wetsuit optional - non eligible for AG awards on WC slots c) Wetsuit illegal - temeprature is so high it is dangerous to swim with a wetsuit You are talking about b. Water temp is above 76.1 but below 8x....I forget the exact number. Let's say 82 They usually have a wave that starts after everyone else. People in that wave are identified when they cross the mat BEFORE the swim. You get a finisher's medal, a result....but you are not eligible for a WC slot. Everyone thought Galveston would be WS legal and it wasn't. There was a huge wave of people that chose to wear one FYI, you want b or c. While it will slow you down it will be less than the other guys. Pray for no wetsuit if you really want to KQ That is one heck of a good point...I hadn't thought of that. |
| 2015-05-08 2:27 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Extreme Veteran 492 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ If wetsuit optional at IMTX all wetsuit racers start 10 minutes after the non wetsuit folks have started. They are not eligible for awards or KQ. If you get in line with the non-wetsuit swimmers and have a wetsuit they typically have spotters that will ask you to either take off your wetsuit or wait and go with the wetsuit swimmers. If you decide to swim in your wetsuit with the non wetsuit starters you risk being DQ'd as soon as you get out of the water and your day is over. I personally would not risk it. It is highly likely IMTX will be wetsuit optional so if you want to KQ then just don't wear a wetsuit. You just never know what time is required for KQ. It all depends on conditions and who shows up. I figure I need to be sub 10 in 50-55 to have a shot. Not sure what age group you are in but if this is your first it is very rare for first timer to go sub 10 unless they are a genetic freak or come from another endurance sport background. If you're in a younger age group better plan on sub 9:40. |
| 2015-05-08 2:40 PM in reply to: rbalazs |
Extreme Veteran 492 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Just saw you may be in 35-39. If so, plan on 9:20 or better. Very, very difficult to do. As a benchmark, to get that fast in IM you should be in the 4:15 HIM and sub 2 Oly range to KQ. |
| 2015-05-08 2:46 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Originally posted by rbalazs Just saw you may be in 35-39. If so, plan on 9:20 or better. Very, very difficult to do. As a benchmark, to get that fast in IM you should be in the 4:15 HIM and sub 2 Oly range to KQ. If I wanted to podium AG maybe.  I'm certainly not planning on going sub-9:20. However only two people in the 35-39 AG did that last year and from the distributions I saw there are typically 10-12 slots for that AG, so that might be a bit harsh. 10th place was 9:40 and that would assume every person took the Kona slot. I'm not sure how much the acceptance rate is, but I have seen folks that did the digging. From those folks, I've heard it was anywhere from 9:45 up to 10:15 depending on who you believe. 10:15 would have taken the 19th place finisher last year, so that would mean about 60% of the folks that qualified took the slots, I don't know how reasonable that is. Also, in your age group, if you go sub 10, you won't have to worry about Kona, you'll be podium based on last years results. I'm thinking I'll be anywhere between 9:50 up to 10:50. However, as mentioned I don't want to get into a KQ debate, the point is there COULD be and OUTSIDE chance, and if that's the case, then I'm going no wetsuit. I really wanted to see how they enforce it, and it looks like they do a good job of it, so it's fine by me. I'm hoping for wetsuit optional as that would give me an advantage. Edited by 3mar 2015-05-08 2:59 PM |
| 2015-05-08 2:58 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Extreme Veteran 492 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by rbalazs Just saw you may be in 35-39. If so, plan on 9:20 or better. Very, very difficult to do. As a benchmark, to get that fast in IM you should be in the 4:15 HIM and sub 2 Oly range to KQ. If I wanted to podium AG maybe. I'm certainly not planning on going sub-9:20. However only two people in the 35-39 AG did that last year and from the distributions I saw there are typically 10-12 slots for that AG, so that might be a bit harsh. 10th place was 9:40 and that would assume every person took the Kona slot. I'm not sure how much the acceptance rate is, but I have seen folks that did the digging. From those folks, I've heard it was anywhere from 9:45 up to 10:15 depending on who you believe. 10:15 would have taken the 19th place finisher last year, so that would mean about 60% of the folks that qualified took the slots, I don't know how reasonable that is. Also, in your age group, if you go sub 10, you won't have to worry about Kona, you'll be podium based on last years results. 35-39 at IMTX had 5 slots last year. Since this is North American Championships and there are additonal slots this year you'll probably see 7 or 8 slots at most. Rolldowns are a VERY rare occurence at IronMan races and especially at early races like IMTX where people have not yet qualified. I'd plan on top 6 to be absolutely sure you get a slot. |
| 2015-05-08 3:02 PM in reply to: rbalazs |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Originally posted by rbalazs Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by rbalazs Just saw you may be in 35-39. If so, plan on 9:20 or better. Very, very difficult to do. As a benchmark, to get that fast in IM you should be in the 4:15 HIM and sub 2 Oly range to KQ. If I wanted to podium AG maybe. I'm certainly not planning on going sub-9:20. However only two people in the 35-39 AG did that last year and from the distributions I saw there are typically 10-12 slots for that AG, so that might be a bit harsh. 10th place was 9:40 and that would assume every person took the Kona slot. I'm not sure how much the acceptance rate is, but I have seen folks that did the digging. From those folks, I've heard it was anywhere from 9:45 up to 10:15 depending on who you believe. 10:15 would have taken the 19th place finisher last year, so that would mean about 60% of the folks that qualified took the slots, I don't know how reasonable that is. Also, in your age group, if you go sub 10, you won't have to worry about Kona, you'll be podium based on last years results. 35-39 at IMTX had 5 slots last year. Since this is North American Championships and there are additonal slots this year you'll probably see 7 or 8 slots at most. Rolldowns are a VERY rare occurence at IronMan races and especially at early races like IMTX where people have not yet qualified. I'd plan on top 6 to be absolutely sure you get a slot. Again, don't want to debate KQ, as noted a couple times. If there was any chance, it would be an EXTREMELY outside chance, as I said. So not looking to be "absolutely sure" about anything. Just saying, if the stars align and the impossible happens, I want to at least have the opportunity. |
| 2015-05-08 3:17 PM in reply to: 3mar |
New user 175 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ You'll still have to beat me!!  |
| 2015-05-08 3:34 PM in reply to: toodamnbroke |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ Originally posted by toodamnbroke You'll still have to beat me!! Nice...I'll keep an eye out for you. What's your bib number? |
| 2015-05-08 3:37 PM in reply to: 0 |
New user 175 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: Wetsuits and KQ 1989. Also to watch for is 1971! ....maybe we should go over the IMTX thread and start calling everyone out. That might be fun. Edited by toodamnbroke 2015-05-08 3:37 PM |
|
|
|
|
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
|
| ||||
|
| |||
|
| |||
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK