General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Know your gear and vendor Rss Feed  
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2015-06-18 8:29 AM

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Subject: Know your gear and vendor
I was doing the B2VT on Saturday which for those not in New England is a 132 mile bike from Bedford Ma to Okemo MT VT and on a descent going 32 MPH when my steering tube broke without provocation at mile 85. For those who are component clueless such as myself the steering tube attaches the fork to the bike at the headset which is on top of the steering column.
The LBS had just changed out the headset so there's three possible causes for this break. One the headset was over tightened. Two Manufacturing issue. Three, general usage.

Maybe I'm naive but I never really thought the fork and all of it's parts could break out of the blue. I pretty much assumed those components were built to withstand punishment and for the rider's safety. Had I hit some monster pothole I could understand it. I like most of you have babied my bike. Should something as vital as a steering tube breakdown over time? Should these be getting changed out every couple of years? Is there some sort of stress test that can be done at the LBS to determine if the composite is breaking down?

The LBS has reached out to me before I had the chance to talk to them and they've been very nice about everything. I also talked to the cycling vendor Guru and sent them a bunch of pictures. Their reply was that the steering tube wasn't manufactured by them but a company that's out of business and it was made in 2007 with a one year warranty so it wasn't really their issue. But I didn't buy my bike until 2011 so you're saying you sold me a component out of warranty? And you picked out the components and you're not standing by them?

I post this not to whine and complain but to suggest to everybody you look at who you're dealing with and how they are putting all their components together as much as you do the fit and the shiny parts. It's been an enlightening experience. I'll never go into this with blinders on again and just trusting that all the big companies are the same or the parts they are using are as well.

Overall I got really lucky. Losing the tube meant I lost my handlebars, breaks, etc and went down hard. I somehow thought quick and bailed to my left in a tuck and roll position. Bruised shoulder, sprained thumb, bruised knuckles and a lot of road rash isn't bad for that speed. Also riding in a group meant I wasn't in aero which I believe would have made it much worse.

Put more time into safety and components


2015-06-18 8:44 AM
in reply to: everlong

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor


Glad you are okay. Hope you get the bike fixed and heel your injuries.
2015-06-18 8:53 AM
in reply to: everlong

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Good to hear your OK, at that speed bad things can happen.

Thanks for the post, you have valid points. These steering components should and in many cases are well overbuilt for safety purposes. This is a area I tend to do a quick check on regularly. There have been bad parts produced over the years and even with recalls put out, I'm sure there are still bad parts in the field.
2015-06-18 8:54 AM
in reply to: everlong

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
First question I was going to ask, is are you ok ? You lose the cockpit, what happened and are you ok ? I'm glad to read that it wasn't terrible.
Second, can your insurance replace the bike ? Does Guru not have its own warranty system , thus the whole bike is covered by them ?
Maybe complain higher up the chain. Go to VP QA or even the CEO. They are in Montreal, so get someone who speaks French and shares the same outrage as you.
My 2c.
2015-06-18 9:24 AM
in reply to: louamerica

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Yes I'm more or less OK.

My left shoulder is severely bruised but nothing broken or more importantly torn. Major road rash.

Left hip major road rash. Left knee some road rash.

Right thumb severely sprained and swollen. Knuckles on right hand all bruised and swollen.

But at that speed I would expect a lot worse and when I got to the side of the road I figured at least a broken collarbone, maybe a torn rotor-cuff, broken thumb etc.
2015-06-18 9:26 AM
in reply to: everlong

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
I spoke to somebody with good English at Guru. I will never buy anything from them again and my next vendor will prove their safety to me.


2015-06-18 10:13 AM
in reply to: everlong

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor

Glad you're mostly OK.  Could have been a lot worse.

I have a friend who had a similar accident at IMFL a few years ago on his Cannondale.  He worked through the LBS where he bought the bike and they were very helpful in advocating for him with the manufacturer.    Cannondale wanted the old bike back to analyze why it broke and made my friend a super deal on a new replacement, though not free.

Until someone can figure out what caused the failure, then it's all just speculation.  I wouldn't pass judgement until I knew for sure why it broke.  Unfortunately, stuff does break on occasion.  

Mark

 

2015-06-18 10:18 AM
in reply to: everlong

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor

Glad you're mostly ok!

I'd be furious with Guru.

My friend had issues with his Felt. The seat clamp sheared off. They completely replaced his frame after a few e-mailed photos and phone calls, and he just had to pat the LBS to swap parts from his old frame to his new one. Felt earned a new customer that day, for sure. I can't recommend them enough if you're looking for a bike manufacturer that stands by their product.

2015-06-18 10:33 AM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Glad you're mostly ok!

I'd be furious with Guru.

My friend had issues with his Felt. The seat clamp sheared off. They completely replaced his frame after a few e-mailed photos and phone calls, and he just had to pat the LBS to swap parts from his old frame to his new one. Felt earned a new customer that day, for sure. I can't recommend them enough if you're looking for a bike manufacturer that stands by their product.




I have heard great things about Felt's customer service as well as Trek (believe it or not).

And, unfortunately, I've been hearing bad things about Guru lately. Too bad because they make sexy bikes........... I think even my lbs is disenchanted with them these days.
2015-06-18 12:36 PM
in reply to: everlong

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Glad to see you survived and are okay.

What did you do to protect sweat getting into your tube and frame?

How often did you have your bike tuned up? Did that include a full strip down to the frame?
2015-06-26 1:38 PM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Originally posted by bcagle25

Glad to see you survived and are okay.

What did you do to protect sweat getting into your tube and frame?

How often did you have your bike tuned up? Did that include a full strip down to the frame?


Wiped the bike down after nearly every ride.

Twice a season with one complete maintenance.


2015-06-26 1:42 PM
in reply to: mtnbikerchk

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Originally posted by mtnbikerchk

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Glad you're mostly ok!

I'd be furious with Guru.

My friend had issues with his Felt. The seat clamp sheared off. They completely replaced his frame after a few e-mailed photos and phone calls, and he just had to pat the LBS to swap parts from his old frame to his new one. Felt earned a new customer that day, for sure. I can't recommend them enough if you're looking for a bike manufacturer that stands by their product.




I have heard great things about Felt's customer service as well as Trek (believe it or not).

And, unfortunately, I've been hearing bad things about Guru lately. Too bad because they make sexy bikes........... I think even my lbs is disenchanted with them these days.


The worst part is I specifically targeted them in 2010 as a smaller company with a good reputation. They haven't come around at all and are still sticking to the fact that they didn't manufacture the fork. Unlike the stories of Felt and Cannondale they aren't interested in finding out why saying they would charge me for a new fork plus shipping charges. Social media and the forums are powerful tools that I use to warn people.
2015-06-26 6:37 PM
in reply to: everlong

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Good to know, 2 of my 3 bikes are Canadian (Cervelo and RockyMountain) and I like them a lot. Unfortunately bikes can and do break but to me the "pass the buck" response is simply inexcusable and speaks loudly to the integrity of the company. I will be sure to avoid Guru.

Im glad you were able to walk away, hopefully you will have better luck on your new bike.
2015-06-26 10:38 PM
in reply to: everlong

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Originally posted by everlong

Originally posted by bcagle25

Glad to see you survived and are okay.

What did you do to protect sweat getting into your tube and frame?

How often did you have your bike tuned up? Did that include a full strip down to the frame?


Wiped the bike down after nearly every ride.

Twice a season with one complete maintenance.


Wiped the frame down, or took the frame apart to see if any water damage got into the frame? Those are two completely different scenarios and one only looks at the superficial level.

I understand your frustration, but I could honestly tell you stories similar to this with just about every bike manufacturer.
2015-06-26 11:55 PM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
That sucks, sorry to hear. I think them saying they didn't manufacture it is pure BS. Almost every company out there doesn't manufacture 100% of what they are selling but they stand behind it because it's their name on the box (so to speak). Sometimes car manufactures will use engines from other car companies. If something happens to the engine, they won't get say "oh...we didn't manufacture it. Tough luck".

Glad you're "ok" though. Bike accidents sucks. I haven't had one myself this year (knock on wood) and I don't plan to either.
2015-06-27 11:00 AM
in reply to: Blastman

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Originally posted by Blastman

That sucks, sorry to hear. I think them saying they didn't manufacture it is pure BS. Almost every company out there doesn't manufacture 100% of what they are selling but they stand behind it because it's their name on the box (so to speak). Sometimes car manufactures will use engines from other car companies. If something happens to the engine, they won't get say "oh...we didn't manufacture it. Tough luck".

Glad you're "ok" though. Bike accidents sucks. I haven't had one myself this year (knock on wood) and I don't plan to either.


Thanks. I was shocked that was their answer and still am.

As an update two weeks after the crash I still have bruised knuckles, the thumb is probably 80%, the shoulder 90% and road rash is healing. Still consider myself really lucky at that speed.


2015-06-28 6:22 AM
in reply to: everlong

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
As an update Guru last night agreed to send a new fork and steering tube to the LBS which is all I asked for from the start. The LBS Bike Barn in Whitman MA has been AMAZING from the start even though they weren't the ones who originally sold me the bike. I'm glad to put this behind me and as I had said in the beginning in today's lawsuit happy society I feel like I was pretty damn reasonable just looking to have all the repairs taken care of. I do have a lot of associated copay medical expenses from the ambulance, ER, orthopedic, pharmacy, etc but that's the risk of the sport so I assumed that responsibility.

The LBS put me in touch with Specialized and I talked directly to their manufacturing rep who took a half hour to walk me through all of their processes, warranty information and it made me feel a lot better. They build all of the frame and fork components in house and have a lifetime warranty on manufacturing issues. So I'll be getting a Tarmac Pro Race Disc and I feel really good about it from a safety and performance perspective.

I'm going to sell the GURU to help fund the new bike. I feel with the new fork and improved steering tube I can sell it with a clear conscience but I will tell whoever I sell it to the details and to have the tube and fork checked regularly which really all of us should be doing.

Thanks to those who replied and offered suggestions. Hopefully people will look at safety more closely and if it saves one person from a crash like mine it's time well spent.
2015-06-28 8:55 AM
in reply to: #5123299

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
It is hard to imagine how many sales guru has lost because of this incident. It has gotta be a lot. And not because of the steerer failure, but how guru responded afterwards.

You are very lucky. A steerer failure while riding is a very very serious event. Good to hear that your recovery is progressing well.

2015-06-29 8:55 AM
in reply to: DarkSpeedWorks

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Just FYI...

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/support/safety-notices

Disclaimer: The team I race on is sponsored by Specialized, and I've owned a few different Tarmacs over the years. I've never had a problem, but all manufactures have issues from time to time.
2015-06-29 1:00 PM
in reply to: DarkSpeedWorks

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Originally posted by DarkSpeedWorks

It is hard to imagine how many sales guru has lost because of this incident. It has gotta be a lot. And not because of the steerer failure, but how guru responded afterwards.

You are very lucky. A steerer failure while riding is a very very serious event. Good to hear that your recovery is progressing well.




Agreed and thanks. First run this morning since the accident. I'll probably ride by the weekend. Two weeks and two days for a 47 year old at that speed with that type of bike failure...........somebody was watching out for me.
2015-06-29 1:01 PM
in reply to: mobey

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Subject: RE: Know your gear and vendor
Originally posted by mobey

Just FYI...

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/support/safety-notices

Disclaimer: The team I race on is sponsored by Specialized, and I've owned a few different Tarmacs over the years. I've never had a problem, but all manufactures have issues from time to time.


Thanks glad to hear it and thanks for the safety notices. As others have said everybody has issues but just own up to it and do the right thing.


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