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2015-07-02 11:35 AM


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Subject: Advice for cadence
Hi, I am working hard to come back from a long break from cycling, I am really struggling on hills. My freind has said that my gears are to high and I'm cranking up hills and that I should work to improve my cadence.
I went out today and kept my whole ride (pretty much) to a cadence of 75rpm apparently this is slow but I was either spinning and getting nowhere at 80 or unable to keep speed up in higher gear.
My question is...is it the right move to work with cadence..a hill I have to climb to get out of town I was slower on today by increasing cadence...so is this about practise? Or does it just not work for some people..is it worth persevering?
Thanks for any advice you can offer


2015-07-02 11:52 AM
in reply to: 0

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Post Falls, Idaho
Subject: RE: Advice for cadence
One of the main reasons to strive for a higher cadence is that it will usually produce a more even and efficient power stroke. At low RPM's its more common to stomp and pull leaving a very lopsided power loading throughout your spin. If you can get some time on a CompuTrainer and use the SpinScan you'll really see this visibly, it's pretty interesting.

General advice is to shoot for 90. To really help smooth things out, work in some intervals at 110. You'll really start to feel any imbalance at those rates.

And, yes it will throw you off for a while if you're not used to it, but it shouldn't take that long to adapt if you're consistent.

I like a cadence of 90 as my general default for both the bike and run, which I think helps my brain/body sync up at that rate a bit easier.

Edited by rframe 2015-07-02 11:52 AM
2015-07-02 12:01 PM
in reply to: rframe

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Master
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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence
Originally posted by rframe

I like a cadence of 90 as my general default for both the bike and run, which I think helps my brain/body sync up at that rate a bit easier.


Yup! Me too.
2015-07-02 12:22 PM
in reply to: rframe

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence
Originally posted by rframe

One of the main reasons to strive for a higher cadence is that it will usually produce a more even and efficient power stroke. At low RPM's its more common to stomp and pull leaving a very lopsided power loading throughout your spin. If you can get some time on a CompuTrainer and use the SpinScan you'll really see this visibly, it's pretty interesting.

General advice is to shoot for 90. To really help smooth things out, work in some intervals at 110. You'll really start to feel any imbalance at those rates.

And, yes it will throw you off for a while if you're not used to it, but it shouldn't take that long to adapt if you're consistent.

I like a cadence of 90 as my general default for both the bike and run, which I think helps my brain/body sync up at that rate a bit easier.


Everyone is different. I will never ride at a cadence on 90 consistently, but I can certainly ride at over 100 when I want too.

To say you should aim for a certain cadence, is really not a good statement. You will see pro's all over the place on the cadence; yes most of them are 85 and above average, but not all of them.

2015-07-02 12:35 PM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence

If you find maintaining the higher cadence in an appropriate gear (something between spinning and a strength workout) is too difficult to maintain, I would approach it with intervals.   The goal is to keep around the same higher cadence all the time, and as you get stronger you can do it in harder and harder gears.   That's how you go faster.   You may realize this, but I think this is an important basic lesson for how one improve's their cycling.

If you're really going to work at it, I would try to work on the 90 rpms.     Set yourself some goals with recovery periods.  You'll get there.  i always think it's easier to do drills on a flatter more consistent course.  When you encounter a big hill, I wouldn't worry a ton about cadence.    Even the pros slow their cadence!  But keep in mind the idea of maintaining an achievable cadence that is faster than really grinding.

Happy riding!

2015-07-02 12:59 PM
in reply to: BikerGrrrl

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence
Pretty much everything says you should ride at your self selected cadence. This will vary athlete to athlete and also for a given athlete depending on the situation.

However to really find your self selected cadence, you'll need to ride lots at a variety of cadences. Force yourself to ride in an easier gear than feels natural for a block of time (say ten minutes) then recover at what feels best for a few minutes. Then you can do a block one gear harder and recover.

To work on coordination, as this is often as issue with spinning at higher cadences, practice spinning against low resistance at cadences close to where your hips start bouncing. It will probably not be that high to start but you should be able to get to at least 120rpm with practice.

Shane


2015-07-02 1:00 PM
in reply to: #5126312


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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence
Thank you intervals sound more achievable
2015-07-02 1:34 PM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by rframe One of the main reasons to strive for a higher cadence is that it will usually produce a more even and efficient power stroke. At low RPM's its more common to stomp and pull leaving a very lopsided power loading throughout your spin. If you can get some time on a CompuTrainer and use the SpinScan you'll really see this visibly, it's pretty interesting. General advice is to shoot for 90. To really help smooth things out, work in some intervals at 110. You'll really start to feel any imbalance at those rates. And, yes it will throw you off for a while if you're not used to it, but it shouldn't take that long to adapt if you're consistent. I like a cadence of 90 as my general default for both the bike and run, which I think helps my brain/body sync up at that rate a bit easier.
Everyone is different. I will never ride at a cadence on 90 consistently, but I can certainly ride at over 100 when I want too. To say you should aim for a certain cadence, is really not a good statement. You will see pro's all over the place on the cadence; yes most of them are 85 and above average, but not all of them.

This and Shane's advice. 

Also, SpinScan is essentially useless info, as striving for an 'even' power application may not be ideal.

2015-07-02 2:24 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Post Falls, Idaho
Subject: RE: Advice for cadence
Below, you will see measured cadence data for some coached pro's. At Iron distances they tend to drop 5rpm.

Yes, 90 is a very good starting point if you're interested in learning about cadence and efficiency.

As for SpinScan, it is most definitely useful. I didn't say you had to bike perfect power circles, I said it's an excellent visualization of where power is being generated and when you use that data alongside your watt output, PE, and endurance... it's quite interesting.

As far as the idea that some pros are outliers, sure a small number are, so what? There are also some pros who have bizarre running styles and weirdo swim strokes, that doesn't mean you point a beginner to do that as their starting point when they are asking how to explore a new concept in the sport, nor act like it doesn't matter.





(cadence.png)



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cadence.png (6KB - 7 downloads)
2015-07-02 3:28 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence

Originally posted by JohnnyKay

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by rframe One of the main reasons to strive for a higher cadence is that it will usually produce a more even and efficient power stroke. At low RPM's its more common to stomp and pull leaving a very lopsided power loading throughout your spin. If you can get some time on a CompuTrainer and use the SpinScan you'll really see this visibly, it's pretty interesting. General advice is to shoot for 90. To really help smooth things out, work in some intervals at 110. You'll really start to feel any imbalance at those rates. And, yes it will throw you off for a while if you're not used to it, but it shouldn't take that long to adapt if you're consistent. I like a cadence of 90 as my general default for both the bike and run, which I think helps my brain/body sync up at that rate a bit easier.
Everyone is different. I will never ride at a cadence on 90 consistently, but I can certainly ride at over 100 when I want too. To say you should aim for a certain cadence, is really not a good statement. You will see pro's all over the place on the cadence; yes most of them are 85 and above average, but not all of them.

This and Shane's advice. 

Also, SpinScan is essentially useless info, as striving for an 'even' power application may not be ideal.

Agreed.  

2015-07-02 3:51 PM
in reply to: rframe

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence

Originally posted by rframe Below, you will see measured cadence data for some coached pro's. At Iron distances they tend to drop 5rpm. Yes, 90 is a very good starting point if you're interested in learning about cadence and efficiency. As for SpinScan, it is most definitely useful. I didn't say you had to bike perfect power circles, I said it's an excellent visualization of where power is being generated and when you use that data alongside your watt output, PE, and endurance... it's quite interesting. As far as the idea that some pros are outliers, sure a small number are, so what? There are also some pros who have bizarre running styles and weirdo swim strokes, that doesn't mean you point a beginner to do that as their starting point when they are asking how to explore a new concept in the sport, nor act like it doesn't matter.

Professional at what? Some of these guys going after the hour record are riding at 110-115. Outliers by your own data. Basically every one of them will be past 100. You can find long course pro triathletes who do well from the high 70's up into the mid 90's.

Cadence is not an input to fixate at one point or even a small range of points and expect great fitness to follow. It's more the result of how a few aspects of fitness coming together. This can change as one's fitness does, meaning the optimum cadence for any one person can move around. It can also change depending on what they are doing at the time. So move it around for periods of time in a workout. Also be able to pedal notably faster and slower than this for coordination purposes (as has been said). Pay attention to what is working best and one can follow along as they develop over time.



2015-07-02 4:23 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence
Originally posted by JohnnyKay

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by rframe One of the main reasons to strive for a higher cadence is that it will usually produce a more even and efficient power stroke. At low RPM's its more common to stomp and pull leaving a very lopsided power loading throughout your spin. If you can get some time on a CompuTrainer and use the SpinScan you'll really see this visibly, it's pretty interesting. General advice is to shoot for 90. To really help smooth things out, work in some intervals at 110. You'll really start to feel any imbalance at those rates. And, yes it will throw you off for a while if you're not used to it, but it shouldn't take that long to adapt if you're consistent. I like a cadence of 90 as my general default for both the bike and run, which I think helps my brain/body sync up at that rate a bit easier.
Everyone is different. I will never ride at a cadence on 90 consistently, but I can certainly ride at over 100 when I want too. To say you should aim for a certain cadence, is really not a good statement. You will see pro's all over the place on the cadence; yes most of them are 85 and above average, but not all of them.

This and Shane's advice. 

Also, SpinScan is essentially useless info, as striving for an 'even' power application may not be ideal.




Oh yeah, I totally forgot to throw SpinScan under the bus. Totally useless.

Shane
2015-07-02 4:27 PM
in reply to: rframe

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence
Originally posted by rframe

Below, you will see measured cadence data for some coached pro's. At Iron distances they tend to drop 5rpm.


n?

Yes, 90 is a very good starting point if you're interested in learning about cadence and efficiency.



Data?

Shane
2015-07-02 4:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence

Cadence is found, not learned - Confucious



Edited by Left Brain 2015-07-02 4:37 PM
2015-07-03 8:17 AM
in reply to: rframe

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence

Originally posted by rframe One of the main reasons to strive for a higher cadence is that it will usually produce a more even and efficient power stroke. At low RPM's its more common to stomp and pull leaving a very lopsided power loading throughout your spin. If you can get some time on a CompuTrainer and use the SpinScan you'll really see this visibly, it's pretty interesting. General advice is to shoot for 90. To really help smooth things out, work in some intervals at 110. You'll really start to feel any imbalance at those rates. And, yes it will throw you off for a while if you're not used to it, but it shouldn't take that long to adapt if you're consistent. I like a cadence of 90 as my general default for both the bike and run, which I think helps my brain/body sync up at that rate a bit easier.

I basically don't agree with anything you typed.

2015-07-03 10:52 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence

Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by rframe One of the main reasons to strive for a higher cadence is that it will usually produce a more even and efficient power stroke. At low RPM's its more common to stomp and pull leaving a very lopsided power loading throughout your spin. If you can get some time on a CompuTrainer and use the SpinScan you'll really see this visibly, it's pretty interesting. General advice is to shoot for 90. To really help smooth things out, work in some intervals at 110. You'll really start to feel any imbalance at those rates. And, yes it will throw you off for a while if you're not used to it, but it shouldn't take that long to adapt if you're consistent. I like a cadence of 90 as my general default for both the bike and run, which I think helps my brain/body sync up at that rate a bit easier.

I basically don't agree with anything you typed.

That makes at least two of us.

To the OP, listen to what Shane said.  You got the answer there.

I'm also going to pile on, and say that spin scan is completely useless too.

 

 



2015-07-03 10:52 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence

Originally posted by Left Brain

Cadence is found, not learned - Confucious

Haha!  I like it!

 

2015-07-03 11:01 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence
Originally posted by gsmacleod
Pretty much everything says you should ride at your self selected cadence. This will vary athlete to athlete and also for a given athlete depending on the situation.

However to really find your self selected cadence, you'll need to ride lots at a variety of cadences.


My understanding is that the optimal cadence varies per individual as well. Some people are spinners and some people are mashers, but you don't really know where you sit until you spend significant time with a variety of cadences.

When I started getting serious about biking mashing away at a low cadence just felt more natural to me and I felt faster, but it wasn't until I forced myself to spin more (something I worked on over the winter on the trainer by regularly riding 110-120rpm) that I realized that this was a much better strategy for me, because it's much more sustainable - I feel like I'm using my cardiovascular system more and my muscles less, so not only can I go faster for longer without tiring, but I'm more fresh off the bike for the run.

But I know people that have tried it all and are best around 80 rpm, so it really does seem to be subjective.
2015-07-03 1:40 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence
Originally posted by Left Brain

Cadence is found, not learned - Confucious




Yup, hehe!
2015-07-03 4:59 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Advice for cadence
Originally posted by Left Brain

Cadence is found, not learned - Confucious


[/QUOTE

Love it!

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