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2006-08-28 11:44 AM

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Subject: metronome + running
is there a conversion chart anywhere that will tell you have fast you will be traviling if you use a metronome for training?

Like how fast you can do a 1 mile run if you are traveling 180 BPM etc...


2006-08-28 12:22 PM
in reply to: #524270

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Subject: RE: metronome + running

Never mind I found this for walking, running and cycling.  looks to be very useful.  link to follow.

WALKING PACE CHART 

LEVEL 1: VERY INACTIVE: 80-100 steps per minute = 2 mph (30 minute mile)

LEVEL 2: LIGHTLY ACTIVE: 120 steps per minute = 3 mph (20 minute mile)

LEVEL 3: MODERATELY ACTIVE: 130 steps per minute = 3.5 mph (17-18 minute mile)

LEVEL 4: ACTIVE: 140 steps per minute = 4 mph (15 minute mile)

LEVEL 5: VERY ACTIVE: 150 steps per minute = 4.3 mph (14 minute mile)

LEVEL 6: EXCEPTIONALLY ACTIVE: 160 steps per minute = 4.6 mph (13 minute mile)

LEVEL 7: ATHLETE: 170 steps per minute = 5 mph (12 minute mile

LEVEL 8: ATHLETE: 180 steps per minute = 5.5 mph (11 minute mile)

LEVEL 9: ATHLETE: 190 steps per minute = 6.0 mph (9-10 minute mile)


 RUNNING PACE CHART (RECREATIONAL TO ATHLETE
 
 LEVEL 5: VERY ACTIVE: 150 steps per minute = 6.0 mph (10-11 minute mile)
 
 LEVEL 6: EXCEPTIONALLY ACTIVE: 160 steps per minute = 6.7 mph (9 minute mile)
 
 LEVEL 7: ATHLETE: 170 steps per minute = 7.5 mph (8 minute mile)
 
 LEVEL 8: ATHLETE: 180 steps per minute = 8.8 mph (7 minute mile)
 
 LEVEL 9: ATHLETE: 190 steps per minute = 10-12 mph (5-6 minute mile)


CYCLING PACE CHART 

LEVEL 1: VERY INACTIVE: 50 rpm (100 beats or steps per minute)

LEVEL 2: LIGHTLY ACTIVE: 60 rpm (120 beats or steps per minute)

LEVEL 3: MODERATELY ACTIVE: 65 rpm (130 beats or steps per minute)

LEVEL 4: ACTIVE: 70 rpm (140 beats or steps per minute)

LEVEL 5: VERY ACTIVE: 75 rpm (150 beats or steps per minute)

LEVEL 6: EXCEPTIONALLY ACTIVE: 80 rpm (160 beats or steps per minute)

LEVEL 7: ATHLETE: 85 rpm (170 beats or steps per minute)

LEVEL 8: ATHLETE: 90 rpm (180 beats or steps per minute)

LEVEL 9: ATHLETE: 95 rpm (190 beats or steps per minute

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/sundquist.html

2006-08-28 12:56 PM
in reply to: #524270

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Subject: RE: metronome + running
I'm not sure how reliable that running one is... I know I run a cadence of about 180 and I *don't* run a 7min mile... not even in my dreams.  Depends on the length of the steps you... I obviously take little ones.    FWIW
2006-08-28 1:03 PM
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Subject: RE: metronome + running
Good point. I guess the best way to figure it out is to run it out.
2006-08-28 1:14 PM
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Subject: RE: metronome + running
At a 180bpm pace, you can be running 5m/m pace or a 15m/m pace. In fact, some running experts (i.e., Mike Ricci) recommend you maintain that 180bpm at all times. The missing variable is stride length.
2006-08-28 1:29 PM
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Subject: RE: metronome + running
Is there more info to be had on this someplace?  I am very interested in trying this type of running.


2006-08-28 3:13 PM
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Subject: RE: metronome + running

Here's my quick hack at an answer:

Get a pedometer and find out how many steps you take in a mile.  Probably want to try this several times to get an average.  Decide on a target time (in minutes) for your mile.  Take your step count and divide it by your target time to get your cadence (steps per minute)

T = time for 1 mile in minutes
C = number of steps taken in 1 mile

T min   *     1  mile     =  T     min
   mile        C   steps       C   steps

Flip that upside down and you get C  steps
                                                       T   min 

I don't do very much math at work anymore so please feel free to point out any obvious errors in my formula. 

I used to have a watch with a metronome and loved it.  It annoyed the crap out of my running partners so they weren't too upset when I lost it.  Perhaps it wasn't actually "lost". 

I just saw The Bear's post and need to clarify that formula.  The step count used above is total steps counting both feet.  Chi Running uses how many times one foot strikes the ground and will be half of the number I used above.  My formula uses the number you will see on your pedometer.

Alex



Edited by aokirk 2006-08-28 3:29 PM
2006-08-28 3:24 PM
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Subject: RE: metronome + running

Itrithere4iam - 2006-08-28 1:29 PM Is there more info to be had on this someplace?  I am very interested in trying this type of running.

Mike Ricci mentioned in a recent post that he was finishing an article, should be ready in a couple weeks. Here's one by the Chi running people that is already out there:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=741

2006-08-28 3:28 PM
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Subject: RE: metronome + running
Go with bear's advice.  Cadence should be relatively constant (at about 90 or 180 strikes per minute--depending on if you are counting one foot or two).  It's your stride length that should change your pace.  Set your metronome to 90bpm and get your left or right foot to strike on the beat.  Do this no matter what pace you are running and your running efficiency should improve.
2006-08-28 4:07 PM
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Subject: RE: metronome + running

Itrithere4iam - 2006-08-28 9:44 AM is there a conversion chart anywhere that will tell you have fast you will be traviling if you use a metronome for training? Like how fast you can do a 1 mile run if you are traveling 180 BPM etc...

Great advice as usual from Bear and Johnny Kay - and I would add going to the track or a course that is flat and measured out and running at different cadences and different HRs just to see what works for you. Right now I am attempting to get my comfortable cadence up to 95 steps per minute (that's 95 left foot strikes or 190 total steps per minute). I have been stuck at 88 for a few years, but I am tying HR into the cadence and seeing where that is getting me. In only a few short weeks, I am seeing some good changes - however, I have been running a while and used to run close to 95 cadence, but once you keep at it, you'll improve - and like everything else, your mileage may vary.

Some examples of varying cadence w HR:
Run 1 mile at Zone 1, count cadence for 1 minute, but don't use tempo trainer (or metronome). Just count cadence on first mile.
Run 1 mile at Zone 2 WITH tempo trainer, upping the cadence 3-5 steps.
Run 1 mile at Zone 2+ WITH tempo trainer, upping the cadence 3-5 steps again.
Take a 2' break, then run 2x400 medium pace (Z3 or higher) at the Zone 2+ cadence setting. Take as much time as you need in between the 400s to get your breath back and HR down.
Run 2x400 again this time running with a little higher setting than Zone 2+ - and see if that is comfortable or if it's too fast. Somewhere in there, you will find your longer distance cadence and your race pace cadence. And you will find that you can run faster at the same cadence once you start focusing NOT on stride LENGTH, but on PUSH OFF of the back leg. That is the key, not the stride length. Have at that and let me know your results.

2006-08-28 4:30 PM
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Subject: RE: metronome + running
mikericci - 2006-08-28 4:07 PM

 

Itrithere4iam - 2006-08-28 9:44 AM is there a conversion chart anywhere that will tell you have fast you will be traviling if you use a metronome for training? Like how fast you can do a 1 mile run if you are traveling 180 BPM etc...

 

Run 2x400 again this time running with a little higher setting than Zone 2+ - and see if that is comfortable or if it's too fast. Somewhere in there, you will find your longer distance cadence and your race pace cadence. And you will find that you can run faster at the same cadence once you start focusing NOT on stride LENGTH, but on PUSH OFF of the back leg. That is the key, not the stride length. Have at that and let me know your results.

 

Excellent posts. To add to Mike comment I think the last part of his post refers more to proper running form/technique. Any time I am out there doing ANY run whether it is an easy/recovery run (low Z1 7:30-7:45 pace) to a LT run (Z4 5:15-5:30 pace) I always focus on cadence (for me it is around 90-92 steps each leg per min) and proper form: upper body relax, the rhythm comes from the arms and NOT from the legs, leg push off, foot strike, etc. I don’t use a metronome either but what I do is count the step of one leg for 20 seconds and shoot for 30-31 steps. That should put me at 90-93 steps each per min or 180-186 for both. Another thing I think of when I am running is to feel how efficient I am running. IOW I *attempt* to move as comfortable and fast as possible (within the pace for the specific session) without breaking my form by over striding or breaking my cadence. The way I monitor this is by checking my HR, PE, pace and how it “feels”. By working on this aspects of my run, EVERY running session and adding running drills at least once a week, I believe I’ve become a better runner without pounding my legs with lots and lots of miles on the road.



2006-08-28 4:33 PM
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Subject: RE: metronome + running
mikericci - 2006-08-28 2:07 PM

And you will find that you can run faster at the same cadence once you start focusing NOT on stride LENGTH, but on PUSH OFF of the back leg. That is the key, not the stride length. Have at that and let me know your results.

MIke,

Can you define this a litte bit for me?  By "push off of the back leg" do you mean when the foot leaves the ground? 

Brad 

2006-08-28 4:48 PM
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Subject: RE: metronome + running
bshehan - 2006-08-28 2:33 PM
mikericci - 2006-08-28 2:07 PM

And you will find that you can run faster at the same cadence once you start focusing NOT on stride LENGTH, but on PUSH OFF of the back leg. That is the key, not the stride length. Have at that and let me know your results.

MIke,

Can you define this a litte bit for me?  By "push off of the back leg" do you mean when the foot leaves the ground? 

Brad 

I am not sure I can explain it any better but I'll try:
Your push off of your back foot is what determines your stride length. Your feet should always land beneath your body, no matter your cadence, or speed, but the length of your stride will change dependant on how hard you are pushing off your back foot - next time you are running - try pushing off the back foot a little harder and see what happens.

Does that help at all?

2006-08-28 5:03 PM
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Subject: RE: metronome + running
That helps, sure.  Thanks.
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