Increasing stroke rate to become MORE efficient? (Page 2)

So, if I read you correctly, you'd increase efficiency by increasing stroke rate......right?

You are still going to find me resistant to the blanket statement, "if you increase stroke rate you will increase efficiency" because it depends on where you are losing your efficiency. if you are taking 15 strokes per length and over-gliding to do it, then YES. but if you are not over gliding then NO. As long as you maintain steady power through your cycle then increasing stroke rate increases speed and not efficiency.

I'm not trying to make anyone make any blanket statement.

If you read the original post, it's about ME. I'm asking specifically about ME. I'm, asking if it's possible.

Edited by nc452010 2015-09-12 1:35 PM

"Is it possible it will set me back to experiment with increasing my stroke rate? "

Im sorry. I have not seen your stroke therefore I cannot give a more specific statement. If you are over gliding and losing speed between strokes then increasing your stroke rate will be beneficial. I have been resistant because typically novice swimmers need to extend their stroke and lengthen their pull. which will have the effect of slowing their stroke rate but increase their efficiency and speed. I just don't want you to chop at the water hoping it will help.

Edited by jckcrlln 2015-09-12 2:28 PM

I appreciate that. I'm hoping it will not be choppy....lol.

I had a great swim today. I'm finding that I'm beginning to find out what feels better, the more I swim. Tomorrow will be 6X this week. My last few intervals have me anxious to go back tomorrow.

I appreciate everyone's insights, sincerely.

I didn't read through the whole string, so I apologize if this was covered, but I noticed the other day on my garmin data that the faster I swim, the less strokes per length I use. So that would mean that at the higher turnover rates, I'm actually more efficient since it takes less strokes to go the same distance. I thought that was weird, because I always assumed it was the opposite; that at higher rates, I would be using more, less efficient strokes. Looking at a workout from last week, here is what I saw:

500 yd warm up @ ave 1:30/100 = 18-20 strokes per length
100 yd repeats @ ave 1:15/100 = 16-18 strokes per length
50 yd repeats @ ave 1:04/100 = 14-18 strokes per length
25 yd repeats @ ave 1:00/100 = 12-14 strokes per length

This is precisely the opposite of what I would think. I could see it for running, because at a faster rate, you are increasing your stride, but that's not the case with swimming.

More fodder for reading........

http://www.swimsmooth.com/strokerate.html

I'm not a coach or a skilled swimmer but..

I don't think that energy per stroke (or per propeller revolution) is a useful way to define efficiency. it's more useful to think of the amount of energy required to maintain a given speed. For a swimmer at speed x there must be a stroke rate (or range of stroke rates) that is most efficient. It seems pretty obvious that some swimmers will be stroking too fast while others will be stroking too slowly. (And some are in their Goldilocks zone.) The optimal change to stroke rate (speed up, slow down or maintain current rate) must vary from one person to the next.

Edit - just noticed the swimsmooth link in the post above. I think the graph on that page says it all.
Don

Edited by donw 2015-09-12 6:05 PM

This is the site I used to get things straight about what I was trying to do. Using the wetronome in my swim cap in pool training helped me expose my "dead spot", excess glide whatever. Counting strokes per length IN CONJUNCTION with this helped me pinpoint a sweet spot for the fitness level and swim technique I was at. Swimming is so technical, so when trying to improve, I worked on certain things at a time, otherwise I'd be swimming all willy nilly just trying to be faster. The beep cadence tuned me in to a rate I planned on working on. Finding your current sweet spot of spm/spl where you put up your fastest time is key, or it was for me, because it gave me a marker I could rely on to work forward from. Not just "my best 100 yard" time, because how would I know if it was my best? maybe my form dropped off as I simply tried to swim faster and sparred with the water.

jck mentioned really finishing one's pull, sooooo correct, for me, i tend to muscle everything and therefore can get choppy when trying to swim faster, i self-correct/self-check by deliberately grazing my hip before recovery to make sure I'm not getting to short of a pull. Good thorough pulls really helpful to maintain forward momentum open water (least how I have felt drilling ows this year)

Edited by TJHammer 2015-09-13 9:02 AM

So mad I didn't get to go down there to swim with ya this year. Hopefully next! I'll be drilling pool sessions this winter to prep

Edited by TJHammer 2015-09-13 9:04 AM

No kidding. That would have been cool. Especially since I can never find people to OWS with me here

And completely backwards from my personal experience

Warmup @ ~1:20/100 =13-15 SPL
50 or 75 repeats on 20 seconds rest, 1:06/100 pace = 16-19 SPL (19 usually only on the last 25 of a 75 late in the set)
25 repeats on 20 seconds rest, 0:56/100 pace =18-20 SPL
25 sprints at max speed (under 13 seconds) with long rest = 20-22 SPL