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Power meters giving me a power headache..please help
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 2015-09-21 5:47 PM |
 1502   Katy, Texas |  Subject: Power meters giving me a power headache..please helpSo I am finally pulling the trigger on a power meter. Actually it's a gift, but it has been a royal pain in the neck. Since it is a gift, I wanted to go with an economical option. I went with Stages, only to find that the PMs that Stages offer for my FSA crank don't fit with my bottom bracket. So just get a new bottom bracket right? Well, I went down that road and the bottom bracket for the FSA power meter Stages offer doesn't fit my bike. So now I need a new crank, well lucky me, Stages sells a crank/PM combo that will fit as long as I get a new bottom bracket (one that will actually fit my bike)...oh, but wait, they aren't actually selling that one yet..so no. The above was an absolute cluster-you-know-what to figure out. I was trying to figure out if I had a BB30 or MegaXO BB, and it turns out I had neither. I have some antiquated bottom bracket on my 2014 bike which just screwed everything up. Anyway, long story short, Stages won't work. So now I'm looking at Economical and easy. I think Garmin Vector. I can get the one pedal system now (economical) and it's easy to install. Mind you, I had no idea what a bottom bracket even was, so getting the schooling on brackets and cranks and PMs was a pain, so now I just want simple. Go on to the site to buy my Vectors and first thing it asks: "12-15mm or 15-18mm"....I'm at the point like...what? 12-15 what? What do you want from me? I'm looking at my bike going, well, the only think on the pedal that size must be the threading? But how can threading be a range? I don't know, I'm just frustrated and tired...please help me figure this out. I have a 2014 Felt B16 size 54 with a FSA Vero crank. Also, how do I know if my cleats will work? P.S. yes, I'm an engineer and supposed to be good at this stuff, but I'm a chemical engineer, not mechanical. Chemistry makes sense because it is nature, not this mechanical &*(%^ that we made up arbitrarily that doesn't make a lick of sense half the time....rant over. |
| 2015-09-21 5:53 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722  | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by 3mar So I am finally pulling the trigger on a power meter. Actually it's a gift, but it has been a royal pain in the neck. Since it is a gift, I wanted to go with an economical option. I went with Stages, only to find that the PMs that Stages offer for my FSA crank don't fit with my bottom bracket. So just get a new bottom bracket right? Well, I went down that road and the bottom bracket for the FSA power meter Stages offer doesn't fit my bike. So now I need a new crank, well lucky me, Stages sells a crank/PM combo that will fit as long as I get a new bottom bracket (one that will actually fit my bike)...oh, but wait, they aren't actually selling that one yet..so no. The above was an absolute cluster-you-know-what to figure out. I was trying to figure out if I had a BB30 or MegaXO BB, and it turns out I had neither. I have some antiquated bottom bracket on my 2014 bike which just screwed everything up. Anyway, long story short, Stages won't work. So now I'm looking at Economical and easy. I think Garmin Vector. I can get the one pedal system now (economical) and it's easy to install. Mind you, I had no idea what a bottom bracket even was, so getting the schooling on brackets and cranks and PMs was a pain, so now I just want simple. Go on to the site to buy my Vectors and first thing it asks: "12-15mm or 15-18mm"....I'm at the point like...what? 12-15 what? What do you want from me? I'm looking at my bike going, well, the only think on the pedal that size must be the threading? But how can threading be a range? I don't know, I'm just frustrated and tired...please help me figure this out. I have a 2014 Felt B16 size 54 with a FSA Vero crank. Also, how do I know if my cleats will work? P.S. yes, I'm an engineer and supposed to be good at this stuff, but I'm a chemical engineer, not mechanical. Chemistry makes sense because it is nature, not this mechanical &*(%^ that we made up arbitrarily that doesn't make a lick of sense half the time....rant over. The 12-15mm is the thickness of the crank arms. You can see by the left hand picture below why the 15mm. They then made an 18mm version for thicker crank arms The Vectors ship with a set of cleats.  Did you look at the P2Max ? Edited by marcag 2015-09-21 6:01 PM |
| 2015-09-21 5:58 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by 3mar So I am finally pulling the trigger on a power meter. Actually it's a gift, but it has been a royal pain in the neck. Since it is a gift, I wanted to go with an economical option. I went with Stages, only to find that the PMs that Stages offer for my FSA crank don't fit with my bottom bracket. So just get a new bottom bracket right? Well, I went down that road and the bottom bracket for the FSA power meter Stages offer doesn't fit my bike. So now I need a new crank, well lucky me, Stages sells a crank/PM combo that will fit as long as I get a new bottom bracket (one that will actually fit my bike)...oh, but wait, they aren't actually selling that one yet..so no. The above was an absolute cluster-you-know-what to figure out. I was trying to figure out if I had a BB30 or MegaXO BB, and it turns out I had neither. I have some antiquated bottom bracket on my 2014 bike which just screwed everything up. Anyway, long story short, Stages won't work. So now I'm looking at Economical and easy. I think Garmin Vector. I can get the one pedal system now (economical) and it's easy to install. Mind you, I had no idea what a bottom bracket even was, so getting the schooling on brackets and cranks and PMs was a pain, so now I just want simple. Go on to the site to buy my Vectors and first thing it asks: "12-15mm or 15-18mm"....I'm at the point like...what? 12-15 what? What do you want from me? I'm looking at my bike going, well, the only think on the pedal that size must be the threading? But how can threading be a range? I don't know, I'm just frustrated and tired...please help me figure this out. I have a 2014 Felt B16 size 54 with a FSA Vero crank. Also, how do I know if my cleats will work? P.S. yes, I'm an engineer and supposed to be good at this stuff, but I'm a chemical engineer, not mechanical. Chemistry makes sense because it is nature, not this mechanical &*(%^ that we made up arbitrarily that doesn't make a lick of sense half the time....rant over. I was broke up reading your post. LOL Listen to marc....PM him for advice. I don't always agree with him on training issues, and I'm sure we're not done having it out, but the guy knows this stuff inside and out. He can set you up. |
| 2015-09-21 6:14 PM in reply to: marcag |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar So I am finally pulling the trigger on a power meter. Actually it's a gift, but it has been a royal pain in the neck. Since it is a gift, I wanted to go with an economical option. I went with Stages, only to find that the PMs that Stages offer for my FSA crank don't fit with my bottom bracket. So just get a new bottom bracket right? Well, I went down that road and the bottom bracket for the FSA power meter Stages offer doesn't fit my bike. So now I need a new crank, well lucky me, Stages sells a crank/PM combo that will fit as long as I get a new bottom bracket (one that will actually fit my bike)...oh, but wait, they aren't actually selling that one yet..so no. The above was an absolute cluster-you-know-what to figure out. I was trying to figure out if I had a BB30 or MegaXO BB, and it turns out I had neither. I have some antiquated bottom bracket on my 2014 bike which just screwed everything up. Anyway, long story short, Stages won't work. So now I'm looking at Economical and easy. I think Garmin Vector. I can get the one pedal system now (economical) and it's easy to install. Mind you, I had no idea what a bottom bracket even was, so getting the schooling on brackets and cranks and PMs was a pain, so now I just want simple. Go on to the site to buy my Vectors and first thing it asks: "12-15mm or 15-18mm"....I'm at the point like...what? 12-15 what? What do you want from me? I'm looking at my bike going, well, the only think on the pedal that size must be the threading? But how can threading be a range? I don't know, I'm just frustrated and tired...please help me figure this out. I have a 2014 Felt B16 size 54 with a FSA Vero crank. Also, how do I know if my cleats will work? P.S. yes, I'm an engineer and supposed to be good at this stuff, but I'm a chemical engineer, not mechanical. Chemistry makes sense because it is nature, not this mechanical &*(%^ that we made up arbitrarily that doesn't make a lick of sense half the time....rant over. The 12-15mm is the thickness of the crank arms. You can see by the left hand picture below why the 15mm. They then made an 18mm version for thicker crank arms The Vectors ship with a set of cleats. Did you look at the P2Max ? No I didn't. Are they all crank systems? Because apparently my crank and BB don't fit with anything and they're terrible so I have those slated for a full upgrade at a future date (I've learned all this the hard way through this experience). That's the other reason I wanted to go vector. So it's the length of the threading? Is that the size I'd need? Any major issues with the vectors? |
| 2015-09-21 6:27 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by 3mar No I didn't. Are they all crank systems? Because apparently my crank and BB don't fit with anything and they're terrible so I have those slated for a full upgrade at a future date (I've learned all this the hard way through this experience). That's the other reason I wanted to go vector. So it's the length of the threading? Is that the size I'd need? Any major issues with the vectors? The P2max is a crank based system. They have many models and I would see if they have one that fits your BB. Call them. They make excellent PMs Vectors are IMO very good. I have a set. But they require very careful installation. Just need to be very meticulous. The vectors need to "wrap around" the crank arm. On this image  You can see why the thickness of the crank arm would matter. If it's too thick, the part on the right would not be able to wrap around the arm and plug into the pedal. Measure the width of your crank and you can figure out which to order. IMO a single sided solution is inferior to a crank based or dual side solution. The good thing about Vector is it's eventually upgradable. Edited by marcag 2015-09-21 6:30 PM |
| 2015-09-21 6:37 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| 643 | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help I have a 2013 B16, I went the route of a $40 Duraace bottom bracket so I could use a lot more different cranks. It's super easy to install and then I got a Power2xMax power meter. If you can find a classic, then it would be easy cheap but I think they are pretty low on those. I'm more of a fan of crank based PMs. I heard too many issues about Vectors and poor battery life. Unless I'm thinking of something else... I too looked at Stages but after I measured it, it wouldn't fit and I canceled my order. I sent them a picture and they confirmed it wouldn't work due to hitting to back brake. Related picture of my PM after I installed it a last year:  |
| 2015-09-21 10:38 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Your post made me laugh... I'm a mechanical engineer and couldn't figure that out!!! I wanted to get shorter cranks, and after trying to figure it all out, I called my LBS, gave them my credit card number, and told them to figure it out. I feel your pain! |
| 2015-09-21 11:10 PM in reply to: #5142261 |
| 108 | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help why not go with the Enve powertap wheels that have the power meter built into the wheel? then you get the carbon wheels and can also switch the wheel out to any bike, road or tri |
| 2015-09-22 3:30 AM in reply to: marcag |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Agree - listen to Marc. I'll give another plug to Power2Max, they have a ton of compatibility options and if you can't figure it out then contact them and they will tell you. |
| 2015-09-22 4:19 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by Blastman I have a 2013 B16, I went the route of a $40 Duraace bottom bracket so I could use a lot more different cranks. It's super easy to install and then I got a Power2xMax power meter. If you can find a classic, then it would be easy cheap but I think they are pretty low on those. I'm more of a fan of crank based PMs. I heard too many issues about Vectors and poor battery life. Unless I'm thinking of something else... I too looked at Stages but after I measured it, it wouldn't fit and I canceled my order. I sent them a picture and they confirmed it wouldn't work due to hitting to back brake. Related picture of my PM after I installed it a last year: It turns out 2014 was the only year they went with this cheap-o BB on the B16, so you have the same one that the 2015s do which has those options. The housing on the 2014 won't fit any of those BBs. The only one that will even come close to fitting is a 386 EVO and even that will stick out a couple of mm on each side so I'll need to mess with my cassette to get it to line up properly. This all took a lot of work and a major headache to figure out. I don't know why felt did this but 2014 also had a lower msrp than the other years so I'm guessing it was a cost saving measure....makes for a pain in the neck. Anyway, this is why I'm shying away from a crank based system because I've got some work to do making that happen and I don't want to be pigeon holed with one crank. Edited by 3mar 2015-09-22 4:21 AM |
| 2015-09-22 5:17 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Sounds like you need a new bike. |
| 2015-09-22 6:53 AM in reply to: axteraa |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by axteraa Sounds like you need a new bike. Well, I like being married so that won't work. |
| 2015-09-22 7:07 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Blastman I have a 2013 B16, I went the route of a $40 Duraace bottom bracket so I could use a lot more different cranks. It's super easy to install and then I got a Power2xMax power meter. If you can find a classic, then it would be easy cheap but I think they are pretty low on those. I'm more of a fan of crank based PMs. I heard too many issues about Vectors and poor battery life. Unless I'm thinking of something else... I too looked at Stages but after I measured it, it wouldn't fit and I canceled my order. I sent them a picture and they confirmed it wouldn't work due to hitting to back brake. Related picture of my PM after I installed it a last year: It turns out 2014 was the only year they went with this cheap-o BB on the B16, so you have the same one that the 2015s do which has those options. The housing on the 2014 won't fit any of those BBs. The only one that will even come close to fitting is a 386 EVO and even that will stick out a couple of mm on each side so I'll need to mess with my cassette to get it to line up properly. This all took a lot of work and a major headache to figure out. I don't know why felt did this but 2014 also had a lower msrp than the other years so I'm guessing it was a cost saving measure....makes for a pain in the neck. Anyway, this is why I'm shying away from a crank based system because I've got some work to do making that happen and I don't want to be pigeon holed with one crank. Stages won't fit on a B-16 Felt Mechanical Engineering makes a lot of sense- it's the marketing and sales guys that that create all the bullsh!t that makes it confusing. I have a 2012 B-16, never pulled the plug on a power meter; however if I did it would be the Power2max. |
| 2015-09-22 7:11 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by axteraa Sounds like you need a new bike. Well, I like being married so that won't work. Either call the p2max guys or go on slowtwitch and sent them a message. They have a support thread. If you go Garmin, fine. But I expect you will eventually want to upgrade to dual side A single side PM is fine to start off, but not what you will want in the long term. Some people, maybe, but not you. You are "special" :-) |
| 2015-09-22 7:53 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by axteraa Sounds like you need a new bike. Well, I like being married so that won't work. Either call the p2max guys or go on slowtwitch and sent them a message. They have a support thread. If you go Garmin, fine. But I expect you will eventually want to upgrade to dual side A single side PM is fine to start off, but not what you will want in the long term. Some people, maybe, but not you. You are "special" :-) Yes, I think you're right. I was riding this morning already trying to figure out if I use both feet equally, it will drive me nuts in pretty short order. The person that tried to buy me the PM, just sent me funds to use towards it after multiple exchanges, so if I chip in some money, I could go straight to the two pedal system...I'll just tell my wife something about them being on sale or something. Speaking of which, if I ever get struck by lightning or eaten by a crocodile, please don't let my wife sell off my stuff for what I told her I paid for it. I measured the thickness of the crank and it was 1/2", so that mean the 12-15mm correct? I just don't want to buy a crank based system that is compatible with my current crank, as that would make me stuck and I'm not close to figuring out if I even have the option to upgrade, so I'd just assume go with the pedals so I can separate the two issues. |
| 2015-09-22 7:58 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help If you are going straight to 2 pedals, consider the new Powertap ones. They seem to be less finicky than the Garmins from what I read (and cheaper I think?). |
| 2015-09-22 8:04 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by axteraa Sounds like you need a new bike. Well, I like being married so that won't work. Either call the p2max guys or go on slowtwitch and sent them a message. They have a support thread. If you go Garmin, fine. But I expect you will eventually want to upgrade to dual side A single side PM is fine to start off, but not what you will want in the long term. Some people, maybe, but not you. You are "special" :-) Yes, I think you're right. I was riding this morning already trying to figure out if I use both feet equally, it will drive me nuts in pretty short order. The person that tried to buy me the PM, just sent me funds to use towards it after multiple exchanges, so if I chip in some money, I could go straight to the two pedal system...I'll just tell my wife something about them being on sale or something. Speaking of which, if I ever get struck by lightning or eaten by a crocodile, please don't let my wife sell off my stuff for what I told her I paid for it. I measured the thickness of the crank and it was 1/2", so that mean the 12-15mm correct? I just don't want to buy a crank based system that is compatible with my current crank, as that would make me stuck and I'm not close to figuring out if I even have the option to upgrade, so I'd just assume go with the pedals so I can separate the two issues. yes 1/2" would be 12.7mm. If you get Vectors, make sure they are the model 2. But call the P2M guys. I am not sure I understand your dilemna. If you go P2M you take your crank, throw it out the window and get a whole new crank from them, rings and all. You may need to put a different adapter, but do not need any parts of your current crank. If you have 1 bike, a P2M or Quarq are the better options. |
| 2015-09-22 8:04 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Did a quick search and found this thread regarding 2014 Felt B16 and P2M: https://www.reddit.com/r/triathlon/comments/3gljyw/felt_b16_bottom_bracket_question/ States: "The specs for your bike say it came with a square taper bottom bracket. http://2014.feltracing.com/USA/2014/Bikes/TT-TRI/B-Series/b16.aspx That means you need to replace your bottom bracket in addition to replacing your crankset. Your bottom bracket shell is English threaded. Also known as BSA. You can use one of many different threaded bottom brackets, including Shimano, SRAM, or FSA. You can add a compatible bottom bracket for $36 with the Power2Max order. You would want FSA Megaexo bottom bracket for BSA and ITA Option - Bottom bracket: BSA68" Here's an order example of a P2M classic crank with the BB you need, not bad for a total of $634.00, man this is making me trigger happy for a PM but my wife would cut me off for life right now! |
| 2015-09-22 8:12 AM in reply to: Donto |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by Donto Did a quick search and found this thread regarding 2014 Felt B16 and P2M: https://www.reddit.com/r/triathlon/comments/3gljyw/felt_b16_bottom_bracket_question/ States: "The specs for your bike say it came with a square taper bottom bracket. http://2014.feltracing.com/USA/2014/Bikes/TT-TRI/B-Series/b16.aspx That means you need to replace your bottom bracket in addition to replacing your crankset. Your bottom bracket shell is English threaded. Also known as BSA. You can use one of many different threaded bottom brackets, including Shimano, SRAM, or FSA. You can add a compatible bottom bracket for $36 with the Power2Max order. You would want FSA Megaexo bottom bracket for BSA and ITA Option - Bottom bracket: BSA68" Here's an order example of a P2M classic crank with the BB you need, not bad for a total of $634.00, man this is making me trigger happy for a PM but my wife would cut me off for life right now! Exactly! |
| 2015-09-22 8:14 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Marcag, I misunderstood. I saw images like the one below and thought that was all you got. I think Powertap is like that. So I figured I'd have to find one compatible with the current crank I have. If that's not the case, then I guess that is a good option. Donto, When I spoke with my LBS he said that MegaXO and BB30 would not fit. Or is that what the BSA68 option is for? Also, how hard is it to switch these out? Do I need special tools? (Capture.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Capture.JPG (15KB - 9 downloads) |
| 2015-09-22 8:31 AM in reply to: Donto |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Another vote for the Power2Max. I have the 2012 Felt B16 and the P2M staff were very helpful to guide me through what model to go with and what bottom bracket to buy. I bought the Classic in early August and basically matched the specs of the B16 - 175 mm crank arm with and compact chain rings (52/36) I also have a Trek 2.1 and they helped me find the correct BB for that bike if I decide to swap out the Power2Max from bike to bike. My local LBS only charged $25 for the install of the new BB and the power meter. Based on the data so far, it looks like I'm left leg dominant (roughly 52/48) and so any power readings from just the left leg would be exaggerated for me. |
| 2015-09-22 8:33 AM in reply to: 3mar |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Ok. So I believe I mimicked this order. See below. So I only have three questions before I pull the trigger: 1. Just for my own edification; how does this measure both legs? Is it becuase the torque on the chain ring can be measured from force applied to either pedal? Or is there a sensor on each crank? 2. Will this sync to my Garmin 920xt? I don't have a bike computer. 3. What tools will I need to DIY this? Thanks for all your help on this guys. I should have come here first and I wouldn't be nearly so stressed out. (Capture.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Capture.JPG (48KB - 4 downloads) |
| 2015-09-22 8:38 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help 3mar - you're in Florida right? At this point, save yourself and just ride your bike off a bridge. Seeing your progress into triathllon, based on time and money, it's only a matter of time before your wife and everyone your know hates you anyway. |
| 2015-09-22 8:42 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by Left Brain 3mar - you're in Florida right? At this point, save yourself and just ride your bike off a bridge. Seeing your progress into triathllon, based on time and money, it's only a matter of time before your wife and everyone your know hates you anyway. Come on now....I'm at least a strong enough swimmer not to drown!! We'll have to think of a different way to end it all. |
| 2015-09-22 9:07 AM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Power meters giving me a power headache..please help Originally posted by 3mar Ok. So I believe I mimicked this order. See below. So I only have three questions before I pull the trigger: 1. Just for my own edification; how does this measure both legs? Is it becuase the torque on the chain ring can be measured from force applied to either pedal? Or is there a sensor on each crank? 2. Will this sync to my Garmin 920xt? I don't have a bike computer. 3. What tools will I need to DIY this? Thanks for all your help on this guys. I should have come here first and I wouldn't be nearly so stressed out. It will work fine with your 920. To swap mine between bikes, all I need is a torque wrench to loosen/tighten 3 bolts. It's about a 2 minute job. edit to add: The torque wrench is good to have but you wouldn't *need* it. The crank bolt is just finger tight and the other two have a range of 10 - 14 nm so as long as you have a reasonable idea of how much that is you'd be ok without it (but I'd still have one!). edit #2: I'm not sure what you would need to get the new BB installed. Mine had the proper one already. Edited by axteraa 2015-09-22 9:11 AM |
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