General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short? Rss Feed  
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2015-09-23 8:21 AM

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Subject: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
I'm currently running +/- 20 mpw (3X4mi + long run). I was looking to ramp up to a HM in January. Would it be stupid to try to ramp up to a full? I've never run a marathon. I've only run 1 HM. My long run, this Sat., is scheduled for 8mi.

I would have no delusions of any pre-conceived time......though it's not in my nature to hold back. My HM time was 1:53 on 35-40 mpw.....5 yrs ago.

I'm not fragile. Shoot straight! My desire would be two-fold. I could use swimming to Cross Train and I'd be neglecting the bike through the winter. But, I'd hopefully be in the best run shape of my life when tri season rolls in, come March.

Go for it? Just do the 1/2?



2015-09-23 8:26 AM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?

With your current mileage I'd say you could do it. I just followed the Hanson plan which is 18 weeks, and the first 2 weeks are around, or less than what you're currently doing anyway, but there isn't much room for cross training, so I wouldn't expect to be doing much swimming or biking during that time. What kind of tris will you be doing next year? If your goal is to be in better tri shape, I'd say focus on the half marathon and keep up your other 2 sports.

2015-09-23 8:29 AM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
My current Marathon plan is 16 weeks long. This assumes a base to start; my first week of that plan was running 4 days, 22 miles total.


Sounds like you could easily do a marathon in Jan
2015-09-23 8:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
If the goal is just to finish, it is probably doable. You have three full months of training. I generally ramp up long run by no more than two miles every two weeks, so it would be something like 8-8-10-10-12-12-14-14-16-16-18-18-20-20-12-race. Nothing magic about 20 but I felt it gave me confidence I could finish. You could gradually build up so that one of the other runs is a bit longer as well (10 mile range). We're assuming no major history of overuse injuries here, and that you're okay with your biking taking a hit. Swimming is great for cross-training and especially recovery when you are building mileage. If tri is your priority, then probably better to do the HM so you can keep up more with biking.

Can't be any worse than my first marathon. I went from a long run of 10 miles to 12, 14, two 20-milers, and the race. That's like a five-week buildup. I was fourteen and doing it as a protest because there was no 2-mile for girls in track in our state, which I guess explains the insanity of it. One mile for each year old thing, then I got it in my head to do a marathon and decided I'd do it if I could do 20, so I did, but no one believed it, so I did it again. Then the marathon. I did finish but really don't recommend this training plan! At 46, I still have nightmares about those last 3 miles!

Edited by Hot Runner 2015-09-23 8:32 AM
2015-09-23 8:36 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner


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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
16 weeks is pretty standard. If your goal is simply to finish I think it is doable. Just be careful to follow a good plan that doesn't ramp up too quickly. Look at some different ones but Hal Higdon Novice and Intermediate plans are a good start. How long is your long run currently? With any plan, you should be able to complete the first week or two of the plan easily. I would also try to mimic the terrain of the race on your long runs. (i.e.- hilly race = hilly long runs, ect.).
2015-09-23 8:38 AM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
I said my plan would be two-fold...and only gave one of them.

I've always wanted to run a marathon. This would knock that off the list.


2015-09-23 8:40 AM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?

Originally posted by nc452010 I'm currently running +/- 20 mpw (3X4mi + long run). I was looking to ramp up to a HM in January. Would it be stupid to try to ramp up to a full? I've never run a marathon. I've only run 1 HM. My long run, this Sat., is scheduled for 8mi. I would have no delusions of any pre-conceived time......though it's not in my nature to hold back. My HM time was 1:53 on 35-40 mpw.....5 yrs ago. I'm not fragile. Shoot straight! My desire would be two-fold. I could use swimming to Cross Train and I'd be neglecting the bike through the winter. But, I'd hopefully be in the best run shape of my life when tri season rolls in, come March. Go for it? Just do the 1/2?

Are you at a point, or can get to a point, where the start of the plan is fairly easy to do? Marathon plans often aren't built from the couch to the race. There is some base level of fitness at the start.

Does the rest of the plan look like something you could schedule in?

2015-09-23 8:42 AM
in reply to: turnip13

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
The race would be in Charleston, SC (I used to live there). The only hill would be if we cross a bridge.....lol.
2015-09-23 9:34 AM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
Originally posted by nc452010

I'm currently running +/- 20 mpw (3X4mi + long run). I was looking to ramp up to a HM in January. Would it be stupid to try to ramp up to a full? I've never run a marathon. I've only run 1 HM. My long run, this Sat., is scheduled for 8mi.

I would have no delusions of any pre-conceived time......though it's not in my nature to hold back. My HM time was 1:53 on 35-40 mpw.....5 yrs ago.

I'm not fragile. Shoot straight! My desire would be two-fold. I could use swimming to Cross Train and I'd be neglecting the bike through the winter. But, I'd hopefully be in the best run shape of my life when tri season rolls in, come March.

Go for it? Just do the 1/2?




I'm in a similar situation of being tight on time and considering a marathon.... except I just finished a half marathon (time was average 2:20). My mileage is about the same as yours... 4 runs a week.... 3,5,3,long run. I'm considering running a marathon in December. I'd say go for it.... maybe do a half in the next month just to see how you feel. I'm a big fan of Hal Higdon's plans since the milage ramps up super slow and the rest days are sensible. Look into his novice or intermediate plans, he has one that straight running and one that has more cross training days mixed in.

Good Luck! You got this!
2015-09-23 11:40 AM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?

Do it! 

If you followed the no more than 10% increase rule with a 20% reduction every 4th week you be around 52 miles at week 14. being a bit more conservative at 7.5% increase with a 20% reduction that 41 miles at week 14.

For myself, I found it best to run train 5x per week and not let the long run be more than 40% of the weekly mileage.  Whatever you do listen to your body (legs)!

2015-09-23 12:01 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
Full disclosure is......I'm still feeling some residual soreness after I run in my right knee. I had my first sun-in with runner's knee....back several weeks ago. I took 5 weeks off running, completely. I'm back running, now (and doing exercises to strengthen my knee.....icing after runs). Swimming makes my knee feel GREAT. Mornings after runs, it's sore.....but nothing critical. It doesn't hurt when I run or anything like that.

I think I'll just go as if I'm going to do the full......and decide as late as I can and still sign up. It's not that much more volume than I'd do for a half, anyways.

I appreciate all of your feedback (collectively). Thank you.


2015-09-23 12:49 PM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?

So, you're not currently running +/- 20mpw (or haven't been doing so consistently for several months)?  If you took 5 weeks off, you need to start running very gradually again.  This does NOT include starting a 16 week marathon plan.  Given your disclosure (unless I am missing something still) I think you should plan on the half and only really start to prepare for that once you are running consistently pain free.

 

2015-09-23 1:03 PM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
I had runners knee earlier this year.... it drove me to start cycling more so I could keep up fitness while being easier on the knees. I went to my primary care doc who also specializes in sports med (specifically picked him for this reason) and he got it checked out to make sure I had no issues. He recommended a lot of over the counter stuff that "might work" and said why not. There's a few good ones that I started taking, I haven't had an issue since.... Celadrin, glucosamine/chondroitin, fish oil, and there was another one but I don't remember the name because it was expensive so I stopped a while back. Not really evidence and could have been placebo but can't hurt to try.

Also look into the KT tape, this seemed to help me, even if just temporarily.

Good Luck and be smart! better to pick a race further out and not get injured.
2015-09-23 1:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
"So, you're not currently running +/- 20mpw (or haven't been doing so consistently for several months)? If you took 5 weeks off, you need to start running very gradually again. This does NOT include starting a 16 week marathon plan. Given your disclosure (unless I am missing something still) I think you should plan on the half and only really start to prepare for that once you are running consistently pain free."

I was running 20 mpw before the knee setback. I've worked back up to (exactly, this week) 20 mpw. I took 5 weeks off where I only swam and lifted weights.

I have until 12/31 to sign up for either. I'm just going to see how it goes.

Edited by nc452010 2015-09-23 1:11 PM
2015-09-23 3:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?

16 weeks is a very standard time frame for a marathon specific training plan. Meaning taking your current running, and making it specific to the demands of a marathon.

The 16 weeks is the specific part and a good base coming into the program is very important. The most important pieces in that base are the volume and the distance of your long run which are related (long should not be more that about 35% of your total volume, which is why volume plays a big role.)

There are a couple issues with coming into the plan with low volume and trying to ramp it up during the plan.

One is by the time you have gotten to where your long run is even in a solid marathon range (16 miles) you will have had to bring up your mileage to 45 miles a week. Going from 20 mpw to 45 weeks alone would take you what,  8 weeks or so if you are increasing by no more than 10% a week? (which is kind of a maximum) And that is assuming no weeks where you step back volume. And don't forget that those last few weeks are for tapering and sharpening and shouldn't really be used for continuing to ramp up the volume or long run.

Trying to ramp up volume (and the distance of your long run) the entire plan also doesn't allow you to add any speed in there.  You really shouldn't increase both speed and volume at the same time. 

 

I'm not saying that it can't be done but I don't think you are setting yourself up to be as successful. There are some simple rules in running that all have a compounded effect.



Edited by Asalzwed 2015-09-23 3:03 PM
2015-09-23 3:31 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?

I think that coming off a 5 week setback and then just getting back to where you were, and still experiencing discomfort, THEN ramping up to 50+ mpw is a recipe for further injury.  Marathon training is no joke.



2015-09-23 3:37 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
You guys are undoubtedly right, if I'm honest with myself.

It was a thought I had this morning.......sort of a "why not?" thing. Now I know

Thanks.
2015-09-23 9:36 PM
in reply to: nc452010


65
2525
, Tennessee
Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
Originally posted by nc452010

Full disclosure is......I'm still feeling some residual soreness after I run in my right knee. I had my first sun-in with runner's knee....back several weeks ago. I took 5 weeks off running, completely. I'm back running, now (and doing exercises to strengthen my knee.....icing after runs). Swimming makes my knee feel GREAT. Mornings after runs, it's sore.....but nothing critical. It doesn't hurt when I run or anything like that.

I think I'll just go as if I'm going to do the full......and decide as late as I can and still sign up. It's not that much more volume than I'd do for a half, anyways.

I appreciate all of your feedback (collectively). Thank you.


Yeah, with this full disclosure I would be hesitant. Any marathon training is very hard on your body and the load on your joints is stressful. I would fully recover from the knee injury and look at a marathon next year. Sorry.
2015-09-24 4:17 AM
in reply to: turnip13

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Subject: RE: Marathon training plans -- Is 16wks too short?
Agreed--I would not suggest beginning marathon-focused training if you have ANY persistent niggles, and particularly with a history of injury.
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