General Discussion Triathlon Talk » IM Vineman Aquisition Rss Feed  
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2015-10-27 12:59 PM

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Subject: IM Vineman Aquisition
Looks like Ironman has purchased the Vineman full along with the half. I know an Iron distance is a long ways off in my future, but I'm starting to wonder if there will be many non-IM choices left by the time I'm ready. I had always thought ChessieMan would be my first, and it is now IMMD. I know plenty of people say you get a great experience logistically, and I'm sure that's true. I just wish some of the local races could be competitive against the WTC.


2015-10-27 1:07 PM
in reply to: Atlantia

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition

I think it's a bad thing.   Don't get me wrong, WTC does put on a great race (actually the local ones that are bought out are still usually run by the existing RD AFAIK), and there is a "feel" about it, but there is value in independent races as well.

Unless you want a KQ spot, to me this is a negative.  Price will go up, crowds will go up, they've gotten rid of two other races they've done for years, the full aquabike (how rare are those) and Barb's Race, a women's only full and perhaps half that's been running for years.

I was hoping for a "new" california race, not just a takeover of an existing venue

Between things like this and the Escape from Alcatraz fee hike, I am afraid triathlon is going in the wrong direction in general

2015-10-27 4:04 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
The only benefit for me is that this is a Saturday race, which I strongly prefer, so it gives me an Ironman Brand option on a Saturday in the West. Aside from that it is is a negative. I did Vineman Full in 2014 and it was an awesome race. One of the best races I have ever done.Hopefully WTC doesn't screw it up. I am also sad to see Barb's Race go away. I know that Barb's had a very loyal following.
2015-10-27 10:33 PM
in reply to: 0

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Atlanta, Georgia
Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition

Glad I did this one before IM took over. Part of what made Vineman so special  was the non-hype, boutiqu-y feel that comes with a well run, independent race with less than 600 participants. And the entry fee south of $300 was icing on the cake. Good bye to all of that



Edited by lisac957 2015-10-27 10:42 PM
2015-10-27 10:56 PM
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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition

It was perfect in so many ways when I did this as my first and second IM.  Really sad to see it go into the WTC pool.  I don't have anything really against WTC per se.  Their races are great but I also very much appreciated another option for a descent sized IM.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that B2B doesn't succumb before I can do that race.



Edited by popsracer 2015-10-27 10:57 PM
2015-10-28 10:57 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
Originally posted by lisac957

Glad I did this one before IM took over. Part of what made Vineman so special  was the non-hype, boutiqu-y feel that comes with a well run, independent race with less than 600 participants. And the entry fee south of $300 was icing on the cake. Good bye to all of that




What is amazing about all this is…..

People complain about
Crowded courses
High entry fees
Templated event (not unique or personable)

This was the exact opposite of Vineman, but now this race will sell out at $700 plus to whatever WTC charges and holds as capacity, all while becoming what everyone complains about

Branding is a powerful tool, that MDOT has tons of power.


2015-10-28 11:16 AM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by lisac957

Glad I did this one before IM took over. Part of what made Vineman so special  was the non-hype, boutiqu-y feel that comes with a well run, independent race with less than 600 participants. And the entry fee south of $300 was icing on the cake. Good bye to all of that

What is amazing about all this is….. People complain about Crowded courses High entry fees Templated event (not unique or personable) This was the exact opposite of Vineman, but now this race will sell out at $700 plus to whatever WTC charges and holds as capacity, all while becoming what everyone complains about Branding is a powerful tool, that MDOT has tons of power.

But, apparently, not enough power to get Tahoe to sell out.  If Tahoe had actually drawn a lot of interest, I doubt they would've touched Vineman.

2015-10-28 11:50 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
Tahoe sold out immediately in the first year. Then it snowed as was freezing cold, then it was cancelled due to wildfires. That race was never meant to be.


Look at what they did with Ironman Maryland,

You can look at the 70.3 series as well for race purchases too. Racing 70.3, Muncie 70.3, Atlantic City 70.3, etc.
2015-10-28 11:57 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by lisac957

Glad I did this one before IM took over. Part of what made Vineman so special  was the non-hype, boutiqu-y feel that comes with a well run, independent race with less than 600 participants. And the entry fee south of $300 was icing on the cake. Good bye to all of that

What is amazing about all this is….. People complain about Crowded courses High entry fees Templated event (not unique or personable) This was the exact opposite of Vineman, but now this race will sell out at $700 plus to whatever WTC charges and holds as capacity, all while becoming what everyone complains about Branding is a powerful tool, that MDOT has tons of power.

But, apparently, not enough power to get Tahoe to sell out.  If Tahoe had actually drawn a lot of interest, I doubt they would've touched Vineman.

I am not necessarily for or against but I agree with you. The exact reasons many here loved it are why others, especially first-timers would stay away.

One major factor is field size and i think that Vineman did well on its own but other smaller races get super spread out and it's tough to feel that you're part of something when you're alone for a good portion of it. Part of the race experience after all those hours of training is having some hype and to feel special. 

Anyway, again, i don't think of it as bad or good - and it's really far from me so i am unlikely to go race it. Ironman does a lot of good things but it also brings with it other issues like high prices, etc. 

2015-10-28 12:40 PM
in reply to: juniperjen


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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
I'm excited. My first full distance was IMTX this year. IM puts on a great race and experience. I was doing a lot of research on where to do my 2nd full distance next year. I was about to settle on Canada until this popped up. Living in southern California, this is a perfect full distance IM branded race for me. I can drive to it and don't have to fly. I also don't have to ship my bike. Major cost saver.

I'm surprised IM chose Tahoe to be the California full distance race. I'm guessing a lot of people are turned off by the inaguaral race, cold temps, elevation, etc. I can't race it because of my asthma. I would DNF once I dove into the freezing water and 40 degree weather combination. It would be the quickest DNF in the history of triathlon!

I did Vineman 70.3 two years ago. I wasn't a fan of the swim start but other than that...it's an amazing course.

I appreciate that people are bummed about this change here. I received an email from Vineman yesterday. Apparently they've had a 50% decline in participants over the past 3 years. So it appears this move may be motivated by trying to keep the race alive.
2015-10-29 1:15 PM
in reply to: Atlantia

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Atlanta, Georgia
Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition

They announced pricing today--

70.3 - $320
140.6 - $725



2015-10-29 1:18 PM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition

Originally posted by lisac957

They announced pricing today--

70.3 - $320
140.6 - $725

Wow, that would have covered three entries for the full in the good old days.

2015-10-29 1:20 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by lisac957

They announced pricing today--

70.3 - $320
140.6 - $725

Wow, that would have covered three entries for the full in the good old days.




You said it!
2015-10-31 3:32 AM
in reply to: #5149275


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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
Would someone kindly post the link to the registration and pricing mentioned above? The last I saw the 70.3 registration was going to be on 11/2/15, but I also saw 11/9/15, and I can't seem to find any pricing anywhere. I've never done an IM branded race and don't wanna screw up and not know how to correctly register on the right day, then have it sell out in minutes.

Mahalo
2015-10-31 8:44 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition

Seems like the Vineman facebook page is the spot where most of the info is communicated right now.

Did Vineman back in 2014 and it was super hot.  I owe the course a rematch as the ~95 degree temps kicked my butt on the run, and am going to go for it in 2016 even under new management.  The course is a great one and I'll be ready to go as soon a registration opens, so hope for the best.   Jose, you should come back as well!



Edited by TTom 2015-10-31 8:48 PM
2015-11-01 2:21 AM
in reply to: #5149275


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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
Thank you, TTom. Didn't think of FB for the info.


2015-11-01 10:35 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
Tom, I'm planning on coming back next year if I can get in. Where did you stay last time we did it? I thought you found a nice place near Guerneville. We need to get the gang back together for another run at Vineman!
2015-11-02 7:43 AM
in reply to: popsracer

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
Originally posted by popsracer

It was perfect in so many ways when I did this as my first and second IM.  Really sad to see it go into the WTC pool.  I don't have anything really against WTC per se.  Their races are great but I also very much appreciated another option for a descent sized IM.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that B2B doesn't succumb before I can do that race.




x2. I will never do a 140.6 but when I finally succumb to that voice calling me out, this is that one that I would do.
2015-11-02 7:29 PM
in reply to: Lock_N_Load

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition

Jose, I actually stayed in Santa Rosa at the Flamingo.  A little pricier (but what isn't during race weekend?) but really nice pool and a restaurant with awesome steel cut oatmeal trifuel :-)  Was about 30 minutes from start and finish lines.

2015-11-03 1:25 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
Tom, I remember now that you guys had stayed at the Flamingo. I actually like to stay in Guerneville so i will be looking for something there. Are you registered for 2016 already through the tri clubs early entry? My tri-club got early entries so I am all registered. I would rather not leave this one to chance. Now if they would just post the new course maps...
2015-11-03 1:44 PM
in reply to: cjiminez

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition

Originally posted by cjiminez Would someone kindly post the link to the registration and pricing mentioned above? The last I saw the 70.3 registration was going to be on 11/2/15, but I also saw 11/9/15, and I can't seem to find any pricing anywhere. I've never done an IM branded race and don't wanna screw up and not know how to correctly register on the right day, then have it sell out in minutes. Mahalo

Registration opens November 10th.

http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/events/americas/ironman/vineman/register.aspx#axzz3qSX5FRnb

 



2015-11-03 6:41 PM
in reply to: Lock_N_Load

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
Jose, no early entry for me. I'll be hovering over the keyboard when registration opens though. New course? I don't think there are many options for the swim or bike, but I'd love to see them adopt the 70.3 run course.
2015-11-05 9:52 AM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: IM Vineman Aquisition
Originally posted by TTom

Jose, no early entry for me. I'll be hovering over the keyboard when registration opens though. New course? I don't think there are many options for the swim or bike, but I'd love to see them adopt the 70.3 run course.


I hear that the swim will be one loop. That after the shallow turnaround point it gets deep again and you can have a one-loop swim course. Also I hear that they will want to change the run course to two loops finishing in downtown Windsor. We'll see. They are taking their sweet old time posting the courses.
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