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2015-12-22 10:34 AM
in reply to: Sous

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
Originally posted by Sous

Anyone else get the e-mail from Set Up today?  Bunch of dribble about the reasoning for selling.  Not that I blame them (or the Y)... money is money and business is business.  Just don't try snowball your "customers", own up.




I'd be interested in seeing the email, if somebody wants to post.

I think it is win/win/win for the Y, Racers, and the Community


2015-12-22 11:03 AM
in reply to: Swimbikeron

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?

Originally posted by Swimbikeron
Originally posted by Sous

Anyone else get the e-mail from Set Up today?  Bunch of dribble about the reasoning for selling.  Not that I blame them (or the Y)... money is money and business is business.  Just don't try snowball your "customers", own up.

I'd be interested in seeing the email, if somebody wants to post. I think it is win/win/win for the Y, Racers, and the Community

In what way do you see this as a "win" for racers?  This will now essentially be the same race that was available in years past... only now it'll cost exponentially more and will likely sell out way in advance.  

2015-12-22 11:05 AM
in reply to: Swimbikeron

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?

Originally posted by Swimbikeron
Originally posted by Sous

Anyone else get the e-mail from Set Up today?  Bunch of dribble about the reasoning for selling.  Not that I blame them (or the Y)... money is money and business is business.  Just don't try snowball your "customers", own up.

I'd be interested in seeing the email, if somebody wants to post. I think it is win/win/win for the Y, Racers, and the Community

 

As many of you know by now, the PPD Beach2Battleship Full and Half iron distance races were purchased by World Triathlon Corporation. I know there are people who are angry that this happened. Over the past week, we've received a number of emails pertaining to the sale, and we're certainly aware of some of the comments on a variety of social media outlets.
 
Believe me when I tell you that the sale of B2B is bittersweet for us at Set Up Events. The race was our creation and we've been proud to have been producing the event for the past eight years with the involvement of our close friends at the Wilmington Family YMCA.  Back in 2006/2007, Dick Jones (CEO  - Wilmington YMCA) was eager for another Wilmington event that could become a fundraiser for the Y. Dick loved the idea and we had some experience at the Full iron Distance (The Duke Blue Devil). The Y had the resources needed to attempt something on this scale, so the Y took controlling ownership of the event.
 
Over the past eight years, B2B has grown into the largest Iron distance race in the country - not including any of the Ironman branded races. A very talented and dedicated race committee comprised of over 40 people were led by Race Director, Jeremey Davis and Operations Director, Mary Toffolon. This team built B2B into a property that ultimately got the attention of WTC.
 
People who may be angry about "selling out" to WTC need to remember that this is a business. WTC is in business to make money. The YMCA is in business to generate revenue streams to fund programs and services. In the eight-year history of B2B, the race has generated a ton of money for youth related programs at the Wilmington Y. Many of these programs would not have been funded without this event.
 
Dick Jones made the decision that anyone else sitting in his chair would have made.  WTC simply made the Y an offer they couldn't refuse. If the Y had walked away from the offer, WTC would have put an Ironman or a 70.3 (or both) in one of the other Atlantic coast markets they have been looking at for the past few years. We knew it was only a matter of time before WTC would have a presence in one of the four coastal "tourism" markets in our region; Savannah/Hilton Head, Charleston, Myrtle Beach or Wilmington. In fact, WTC had pretty much decided that it was either going to be Wilmington or Hilton Head.
 
A competing Ironman branded event in Hilton Head would have had a massive negative impact on B2B. B2B has been able to withstand some of the moves that WTC has made into our region (Augusta, Maryland, Chattanooga), but registration numbers have been down for the past couple of years for the Full. The value of the event had most likely reached its zenith. Comparing it to a stock, it would be like owning a stock with a per-share price of $100 that you know will only go down in value. It might be only $75 per share in a year or $50 per share in two years. You simply have to sell that stock.
 
Ironman North Carolina will become an incredible event. Obviously WTC is very good at what they do and they will bring some incredible resources to the event. We're thrilled that the YMCA will continue to be involved and it's going to be great for the race to have the continued involvement of both Jeremey and Mary.
 
As I mentioned earlier, this is bittersweet for Set Up because we lose our flagship event. However, I can assure you that we will continue to produce safe and well-run  triathlons in the Carolinas. We're excited about our new North Carolina State Park triathlon series (Centennial Endurance Challenge) that will offer up some beautiful venues combined with unique race distances.
 
I hope everyone has a happy holidays and we hope to see you at one of our races in 2016.
 
Bill Scott
Founder/CEO - Set Up Events
2015-12-22 11:27 AM
in reply to: Sous

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
Originally posted by Sous

Originally posted by Swimbikeron
Originally posted by Sous

Anyone else get the e-mail from Set Up today?  Bunch of dribble about the reasoning for selling.  Not that I blame them (or the Y)... money is money and business is business.  Just don't try snowball your "customers", own up.

I'd be interested in seeing the email, if somebody wants to post. I think it is win/win/win for the Y, Racers, and the Community

In what way do you see this as a "win" for racers?  This will now essentially be the same race that was available in years past... only now it'll cost exponentially more and will likely sell out way in advance.  




This. It now costs more, will have more people crowding onto the course, will likely sell out long before I am ready to decide if I want to do a second full distance race next year, and will have the exact same swag as the early season full distance race I am doing.

What is the improvement here? I see none. Oh it has a handful of Kona slots (30). Although I am fast enough to compete for one, that isn't holding sway with me in the least. At best that's a neutral.
2015-12-22 12:32 PM
in reply to: Sous

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?

That sounds like a pretty straight-forward and honest letter.  They were offered more than they thought it would be worth on its own and hit the bid.  I am not sure what you feel you are getting "snowballed" on.

2015-12-22 2:17 PM
in reply to: Swimbikeron


15

Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
Originally posted by Swimbikeron

Originally posted by Sous

Anyone else get the e-mail from Set Up today?  Bunch of dribble about the reasoning for selling.  Not that I blame them (or the Y)... money is money and business is business.  Just don't try snowball your "customers", own up.




I'd be interested in seeing the email, if somebody wants to post.

I think it is win/win/win for the Y, Racers, and the Community


Definite short-term win for the Y, possible long-term win for the Y. Probable win for the community as it's a boost in tourism dollars that's just about guaranteed to last.

Racers lose. Higher entry fees. Lower quality.

The worst part will be the crowding. I've done Muncie 70.3 once and spectated repeatedly at IMLOU. WTC races are crowded. It is what it is. But I think that given the B2B course, the crowding will make it unsafe. The boat landing just before the first drawbridge has a couple speed bumps. The drawbridge itself. The Interstate section that's pretty well crammed into the left lane with no real runoff/escape. And the last drawbridge. All a little sketchy at times, but manageable in the B2B crowd, but a peloton crash waiting to happen with a Mdot-sized crowd.


2015-12-22 2:28 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay


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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
Originally posted by JohnnyKay

That sounds like a pretty straight-forward and honest letter.  They were offered more than they thought it would be worth on its own and hit the bid.  I am not sure what you feel you are getting "snowballed" on.




Seemed pretty honest to me. They built value in the event. They saw nowhere to go but down based on recent trends, and WTC with a strategy to put them under. Basically they cashed out while they could still get the value that they had built.

No telling what Setup's ownership interest was, or where any of those proceeds will be re-invested (TriHabitat, anyone?)
But the YMCA's position is unfortunately quite understandable.

2015-12-22 2:34 PM
in reply to: beastofbourbon

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?


Done B2B and IM races. I think IM will do a good job taking over B2B. Yes the cost will go up with the IM brand but they put on a great race.

I don't see how B2B will be ruined with IM.

The letter explains the reason and sounds like good solid business decision.
2015-12-22 2:56 PM
in reply to: #5155461

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
I just don't get all the hand wringing over WTC's ownership here. I've done multiple HIMs run by both WTC and non WTC, including B2B and, aside from cost, the WTC races have been at least as good as, and typically better run, than the non-WTC races. They just know how to efficiently run a good event and I've always felt like they were focused on athlete safety. Yes the cost is higher, but given how much this sport costs in general and all the travel expenses related to a given race, I don't feel like the extra $$$ in race fees will be a deal killer for many people.
2015-12-22 6:57 PM
in reply to: 0


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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
Originally posted by GODAWGS

Done B2B and IM races. I think IM will do a good job taking over B2B. Yes the cost will go up with the IM brand but they put on a great race.

I don't see how B2B will be ruined with IM.

The letter explains the reason and sounds like good solid business decision.


Crowded, drafty bike. Drawbridges might be outright unsafe with that many athletes. Did you read my post at all?

Edited by beastofbourbon 2015-12-22 7:01 PM
2015-12-22 7:31 PM
in reply to: Patrick E

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
Originally posted by Patrick E

I just don't get all the hand wringing over WTC's ownership here. I've done multiple HIMs run by both WTC and non WTC, including B2B and, aside from cost, the WTC races have been at least as good as, and typically better run, than the non-WTC races. They just know how to efficiently run a good event and I've always felt like they were focused on athlete safety. Yes the cost is higher, but given how much this sport costs in general and all the travel expenses related to a given race, I don't feel like the extra $$$ in race fees will be a deal killer for many people.


Exactly.

Yes, the race will cost more.

Unless you are local to the race, the entry fee is a tiny drop in the bucket when compared with the overall cost of training for, traveling to, and racing a 140.6 race.

I have always felt like I get my moneys worth out of IM (branded) races.

I have been considering doing B2B for awhile. I am still considering doing B2B. IM ownership of this event has not significantly changed my interest.


2015-12-22 10:19 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
I don't feel "snowballed" by the letter. It seems to be an honest letter. Viewed from the perspective of the Y & WTC it seems like a pretty good business decision. Not to mention as the letter did point out that had WTC gone to another race/location it would have killed what B2B built through the years. Personally I do not like the fact that B2B sold to WTC but I certainly understand why it happened. I am disappointed only from the perspective that if I ever decided to compete in a 140.6 tri B2B would have been the race. Just means that should I ever decide to race this distance I will have to find another race in which to compete.
2015-12-23 7:46 AM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?

Originally posted by JohnnyKay

That sounds like a pretty straight-forward and honest letter.  They were offered more than they thought it would be worth on its own and hit the bid.  I am not sure what you feel you are getting "snowballed" on.

Mainly it's the honesty thing that bugs me the most.  For weeks the site has some banner claiming that registration will be opening soon and that they are working on a new registration platform. I guess technically this is true but it certainly isn't very forthcoming.  I just see that much like someone taking the most stringent definition of the truth and threading the needle with a statement.... your kid rear-ends someone at a red light because he was posing on facebook on his phone... when talking about the accident you ask "were you texting when you hit him"... "no dad, I wasn't texting"  True, but very misleading.

Then in the letter, which I agree is pretty straight forward and what should've been done in the beginning instead of the new registration platform nonsense, they talk about  withstand[ing] some of the moves that WTC has made into our region (Augusta, Maryland, Chattanooga).  Well Augusta has been around since 2009, a year after B2B started, and IMMD was in existence before B2B as ChesapeakeMan before WTC bought it.  They make it sound like these races are new and that they have been fighting to "withstand" WTC coming into the market, when in fact one race started the year after B2B and the other preceded it and they've been coexisting for 7 years. 

In the end it's really no skin off my nose, I just find the whole thing a little hinkey, and I wonder if they would've ever even said boo had they not gotten a slew of e-mails and phone calls.  I think that being straight forward from the onset is the better move, especially when you are still going to be in business and relying on the same customers going forward.  I didn't go to Wharton, but I'm pretty sure that being honest and not pi$$ing your customers off is in one of their lesson plans. 

2015-12-23 8:55 AM
in reply to: Sous

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?

Originally posted by Sous

Originally posted by JohnnyKay

That sounds like a pretty straight-forward and honest letter.  They were offered more than they thought it would be worth on its own and hit the bid.  I am not sure what you feel you are getting "snowballed" on.

Mainly it's the honesty thing that bugs me the most.  For weeks the site has some banner claiming that registration will be opening soon and that they are working on a new registration platform. I guess technically this is true but it certainly isn't very forthcoming.  I just see that much like someone taking the most stringent definition of the truth and threading the needle with a statement.... your kid rear-ends someone at a red light because he was posing on facebook on his phone... when talking about the accident you ask "were you texting when you hit him"... "no dad, I wasn't texting"  True, but very misleading.

Then in the letter, which I agree is pretty straight forward and what should've been done in the beginning instead of the new registration platform nonsense, they talk about  withstand[ing] some of the moves that WTC has made into our region (Augusta, Maryland, Chattanooga).  Well Augusta has been around since 2009, a year after B2B started, and IMMD was in existence before B2B as ChesapeakeMan before WTC bought it.  They make it sound like these races are new and that they have been fighting to "withstand" WTC coming into the market, when in fact one race started the year after B2B and the other preceded it and they've been coexisting for 7 years. 

In the end it's really no skin off my nose, I just find the whole thing a little hinkey, and I wonder if they would've ever even said boo had they not gotten a slew of e-mails and phone calls.  I think that being straight forward from the onset is the better move, especially when you are still going to be in business and relying on the same customers going forward.  I didn't go to Wharton, but I'm pretty sure that being honest and not pi$$ing your customers off is in one of their lesson plans. 

While I don't know many (any?) of the details, there may have been very little they could say publically while the deal was being negotiated (especially since they weren't the principal negotiators)--though they probably should have been prepared to respond quicker. Regardless, the WTC races were new competition from when B2B was started.  Yes, one might have been competition from early on (and which they had handled fine), but ChesapeakeMan was NOT competition before WTC took over the race more recently and entrants went from a couple hundred to 1500+.  And, now, WTC was prepared to do a race in their 'backyard'.  I'm not even sure what the bid was, as it sounds like they might not have had a whole lot of leverage in any negotiations.

I understand there are people upset they lost a race they really enjoyed and will get a race they may not enjoy--and will certainly pay more if they do race it.  As long as there are enough people influenced by the strong brand that WTC has helped build and enjoy their product, it will be tough for niche races to sustain themselves (though some will surely do so).  Being upset at people who try to create and run some of these races, and who then decide to move on, doesn't seem like it will help their efforts though.

Oh, and Wharton is known more for their finance acumen than marketing or public relations so their lesson plans were probably more focused on hitting any bid in excess of net present value. 

 

2015-12-23 9:21 AM
in reply to: Sous

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
Originally posted by Sous

Originally posted by JohnnyKay

That sounds like a pretty straight-forward and honest letter.  They were offered more than they thought it would be worth on its own and hit the bid.  I am not sure what you feel you are getting "snowballed" on.

Mainly it's the honesty thing that bugs me the most.  For weeks the site has some banner claiming that registration will be opening soon and that they are working on a new registration platform. I guess technically this is true but it certainly isn't very forthcoming.  I just see that much like someone taking the most stringent definition of the truth and threading the needle with a statement.... your kid rear-ends someone at a red light because he was posing on facebook on his phone... when talking about the accident you ask "were you texting when you hit him"... "no dad, I wasn't texting"  True, but very misleading.

Then in the letter, which I agree is pretty straight forward and what should've been done in the beginning instead of the new registration platform nonsense, they talk about  withstand[ing] some of the moves that WTC has made into our region (Augusta, Maryland, Chattanooga).  Well Augusta has been around since 2009, a year after B2B started, and IMMD was in existence before B2B as ChesapeakeMan before WTC bought it.  They make it sound like these races are new and that they have been fighting to "withstand" WTC coming into the market, when in fact one race started the year after B2B and the other preceded it and they've been coexisting for 7 years. 

In the end it's really no skin off my nose, I just find the whole thing a little hinkey, and I wonder if they would've ever even said boo had they not gotten a slew of e-mails and phone calls.  I think that being straight forward from the onset is the better move, especially when you are still going to be in business and relying on the same customers going forward.  I didn't go to Wharton, but I'm pretty sure that being honest and not pi$$ing your customers off is in one of their lesson plans. 




That is what you get with any buyout or merger. both sides are under strict confidentiality until the deal is signed.

The only thing I'm upset with is that WTC has a monopoly which is bad for its customers(athletes). This has been proven through history, competition drives improvements and keeps costs reasonable.
It has been proven the independent races such as B2B can charge less, still make plenty of profit, put on a good race, and hand out better swag. In this case WTC only brings the "Ironman" name to the table. I guess that is important to the buck-listers out there, but not to me. I'd rather race it as B2B and save $200 bucks.
2015-12-23 10:41 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
Originally posted by mike761

Originally posted by Sous

Originally posted by JohnnyKay

That sounds like a pretty straight-forward and honest letter.  They were offered more than they thought it would be worth on its own and hit the bid.  I am not sure what you feel you are getting "snowballed" on.

Mainly it's the honesty thing that bugs me the most.  For weeks the site has some banner claiming that registration will be opening soon and that they are working on a new registration platform. I guess technically this is true but it certainly isn't very forthcoming.  I just see that much like someone taking the most stringent definition of the truth and threading the needle with a statement.... your kid rear-ends someone at a red light because he was posing on facebook on his phone... when talking about the accident you ask "were you texting when you hit him"... "no dad, I wasn't texting"  True, but very misleading.

Then in the letter, which I agree is pretty straight forward and what should've been done in the beginning instead of the new registration platform nonsense, they talk about  withstand[ing] some of the moves that WTC has made into our region (Augusta, Maryland, Chattanooga).  Well Augusta has been around since 2009, a year after B2B started, and IMMD was in existence before B2B as ChesapeakeMan before WTC bought it.  They make it sound like these races are new and that they have been fighting to "withstand" WTC coming into the market, when in fact one race started the year after B2B and the other preceded it and they've been coexisting for 7 years. 

In the end it's really no skin off my nose, I just find the whole thing a little hinkey, and I wonder if they would've ever even said boo had they not gotten a slew of e-mails and phone calls.  I think that being straight forward from the onset is the better move, especially when you are still going to be in business and relying on the same customers going forward.  I didn't go to Wharton, but I'm pretty sure that being honest and not pi$$ing your customers off is in one of their lesson plans. 




That is what you get with any buyout or merger. both sides are under strict confidentiality until the deal is signed.

The only thing I'm upset with is that WTC has a monopoly which is bad for its customers(athletes). This has been proven through history, competition drives improvements and keeps costs reasonable.
It has been proven the independent races such as B2B can charge less, still make plenty of profit, put on a good race, and hand out better swag. In this case WTC only brings the "Ironman" name to the table. I guess that is important to the buck-listers out there, but not to me. I'd rather race it as B2B and save $200 bucks.


Agreed. A WTC monopoly on long course racing is a bad thing for athletes.


2015-12-23 5:26 PM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?

Originally posted by wannabefaster
Originally posted by Patrick E I just don't get all the hand wringing over WTC's ownership here. I've done multiple HIMs run by both WTC and non WTC, including B2B and, aside from cost, the WTC races have been at least as good as, and typically better run, than the non-WTC races. They just know how to efficiently run a good event and I've always felt like they were focused on athlete safety. Yes the cost is higher, but given how much this sport costs in general and all the travel expenses related to a given race, I don't feel like the extra $$$ in race fees will be a deal killer for many people.
Exactly. Yes, the race will cost more. Unless you are local to the race, the entry fee is a tiny drop in the bucket when compared with the overall cost of training for, traveling to, and racing a 140.6 race. I have always felt like I get my moneys worth out of IM (branded) races. I have been considering doing B2B for awhile. I am still considering doing B2B. IM ownership of this event has not significantly changed my interest.

There are a lot of people who do Ironman for which such a cost is negligible, but there are a lot of others who would like to for which a few hundred dollars is a considerable expense. MDOT race fees can be one of the biggest single item expenses that go into this for a number of people. 

2015-12-23 5:53 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?

It's all about perspective.  I trained for nearly a year for IM Tahoe only to be wrecked 2 weeks out with a blown knee.  $650.00 entry fee gone....or maybe $700.00....I can't remember.  In the end training for the race got me into some of the best shape I'd been in for nearly a decade.  At about $50.00 per month lost on race fees vs. motivation to train......it was a hell of a lot cheaper than a gym membership.  

WTC is not the devil.  You can rail against them all you want.......but they keep the long course racing scene alive and well, if that's your thing.

2015-12-23 6:28 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?

My perspective was not on what WTC charges, but more on others thinking it's not a big deal for anyone because it isn't for them. These metaphorical buckets are different sizes.

2015-12-24 3:20 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
Originally posted by JohnnyKay

That sounds like a pretty straight-forward and honest letter.  They were offered more than they thought it would be worth on its own and hit the bid.  I am not sure what you feel you are getting "snowballed" on.



X2
Love the Wilmington area, have toured the USS North Carolina, adding this to my list of races. I've always been happy with the WTC races I've done, and if its some extra $$, so be it, I've wasted money on a lot of more useless things.

Edited by Swimbikeron 2015-12-24 3:22 PM
2015-12-24 3:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?

Originally posted by brigby1

My perspective was not on what WTC charges, but more on others thinking it's not a big deal for anyone because it isn't for them. These metaphorical buckets are different sizes.

LOL  From what I know of wealthy people, losing money bothers them more then it does others......no matter how much they have.

But yeah, I agree that it's a bigger deal for some than others...and the above "no matter" still applies.  Still, in the end, it's part of it.  Every time I hit "pay" I know that "no refund" applies.......the whining ends there.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-12-24 3:43 PM


2016-01-05 9:42 AM
in reply to: beastofbourbon

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
Originally posted by beastofbourbon

Originally posted by GODAWGS

Done B2B and IM races. I think IM will do a good job taking over B2B. Yes the cost will go up with the IM brand but they put on a great race.

I don't see how B2B will be ruined with IM.

The letter explains the reason and sounds like good solid business decision.


Crowded, drafty bike. Drawbridges might be outright unsafe with that many athletes. Did you read my post at all?


Yes I read your post. I think the race being ruined it a little extreme. People don't like change.
There was a lot of drafting going on during the B2B last year and I didn't see any penalties. My experience IM does a better job of controlling the drafting.
I would think the drawbridge would be covered in the race meeting prior to the race.
Lift is full of changes, you will be okay.
2016-01-06 10:49 AM
in reply to: leatherneckpa

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Subject: RE: Is B2B about to be ruined?
As I do not like, nor will I support the IM business model...this is just one more race I will never participate in. Those of you who like all things IM, go for it. I prefer smaller events that tend to be locally owned and operated.
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author : TriPainter
comments : 1
I went into the pool area (as this was a pool swim) and got body marked. That's when it hit me that I was there to race - this was not a clinic.
 
date : September 24, 2007
author : mrakes1
comments : 0
Discussions on salt tablets, AM workout nutrition, coffee, post workout nutrition, whey powder, recovery nutrition, losing weight, Recoverite usage, the necessity of sugars and snack ideas.