General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Starting from zero Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2016-09-04 2:52 AM


20

Subject: Starting from zero
Hello everybody!!!

Recently I have decided that I want to train for a triathlon for summer 2017: a sprint would be ok and if possible an olympic one would be great.
I have always practiced quite a lot of sport and in the last 3 years I ran half marathons (PB 1h 37') and played a lot of squash (at least 3 times a week).
Now I decided to stop (at least for a while) playing squash and try something more challenging.
I can swim and I can ride a bike but I am not trained at all.

My idea is to stick to some training plans like "sprint/olympic in 20 weeks" but before I need to build some endurance/core and as I have more or less 45 weeks before my race I can use 25 weeks for build up and then I would still have 20 weeks for the plan.

I have a subscription to a gym close to my office and one close to home (I use it mainly for treadmill and recently some stationary bike)
I have a pool close to home
I have a stationary bike at home and an old Mountain bike (I will invest for a new bike this spring when I will be sure about my 100% commitment)
I live in the countryside and I can run / ride with no problem during the weekend

As I work (as everybody more or less) 8 hours a day I could dedicate following time:
Mon-Fri 1-1.5 hours in gym before work
Mon-Fri 1-1.5 hours at home after dinner
2 days a week (Wed-Fri) I may go to swimming pool
Sat-Sun at least one long workout (run/ride)

Could you please help me in making a program/routine for this first part of training?

Up to now I am trying to do one thing each day (like M-run T-bike W-swim T-run....) but I am scared to burn out easily as I see that after one evening on the stationary the day after running is hard....

I am completely new to training program and I never dove/used before therefore everything would help

Thanks a lot!!!!



2016-09-04 3:22 AM
in reply to: FrankieP78

User image

Master
1718
1000500100100
Loughborough, England
Subject: RE: Starting from zero

How far/long can you swim, bike and run at the moment?

2016-09-04 5:26 AM
in reply to: #5197663


20

Subject: RE: Starting from zero
Run: I ran a half marathon in June and I subscribed for a 25 km race by the end of the month

Swim: I want just once to swimming pool last week and I think that 10x25m without rest is my limit for the moment

Bike: on the stationary something about 45-60 min / I just revamped my old bike and rode it once less than 10 km (where I usually run) and it was quite hard

From my point of vien I can say that running is ok, while bike/swim I have to work a lot...
2016-09-04 11:19 AM
in reply to: FrankieP78


467
1001001001002525
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Starting from zero
I think you are way further than starting from zero! Personally I would just spend the next couple of months riding bike more with about 80% pretty easy riding and approx. 20% doing some hard efforts. The hard efforts could be structured intervals like 3-5 times of 8 hard minutes with 4 minute rest. Or just push it hard up the hills etc. Basically working at getting more used to harder efforts and higher speeds. I would also either get a coach to help get your swimming form up to snuff, or watch and implement internet swimming lessons. It doesn't sound like you'll have any difficulty building up the swimming endurance, but it will help you so much more long term to get your form efficient as soon as possible.
2016-09-04 11:54 AM
in reply to: #5197669

User image


370
1001001002525
, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Starting from zero
Swim a lot. It is first and a good swim will help the bike and run.

Getting swim instruction now will give you something to work on in the pool instead of just swimming back and forth.

Don't over cook yourself now. Easy to get burned out in 45 weeks. Start slow and build from there. You don't have to do 1.5 each day to get there.
2016-09-04 12:59 PM
in reply to: FrankieP78

User image

Master
1718
1000500100100
Loughborough, England
Subject: RE: Starting from zero

As you say your running is fine and you just need to swim and bike more.  You could structure this formally or just gradually increase the time you spend on each of these.  Do some faster rides when you feel like it but don't over do it.  Work out what you need to be able to do at the start of the training plan you are going to follow for the triathlon then work backwards from there.  I suspect it will not be too long before you are able to cover the distance then you could start working on building speed.

Try and get outside on the bike as much as possible now as it won't be too long before the nights start to close in and you will be confined to the trainer, which can soon become a chore.



2016-09-04 1:53 PM
in reply to: #5197680


20

Subject: RE: Starting from zero
Thank you so much to everybody for all the advice and support.

I have few more questions:

- What about training days sequence?
I have seen that if I do something every day then in the weekend the long workout is a mess (for example today, after a full training week, I ran only 11 km that is far below my usual long run). At the same time I fear that if I do not do each sport twice a week I won't be able to reach my target... What would you suggest?

- What about stationary versus bike? Is there any strategy to make stationary training effective? (stationary seems to me easier than real riding).

- Shall I think stop running for a while and focus on swim/bike?

Thank you so much.
2016-09-04 3:12 PM
in reply to: FrankieP78

User image

Master
1718
1000500100100
Loughborough, England
Subject: RE: Starting from zero

Two workouts (the minimum needed really to make any improvements although three sessions would be better) in each sport gives you one day rest per week.

If I were you I would be aiming for two runs per week (as this is your strongest sport) and three sessions on the bike and in the pool in order to make more rapid improvements in these.  Obviously this will mean doubling up on some days in order to still have one day off per week.

Certainly do not stop running altogether.

Generally interval training makes stationary bike sessions more tolerable.  Stationary bike riding is a very constant and controlled effort which is great for intervals as you are able to totally bury yourself without worry about veering off the road etc.  However, they do not simulate the constant changes of gradient, road surface and wind speed that you experience out on the road.  Also, you will not develop your bike handling skills sitting on a stationary bike.  Using a turbo trainer would be a step up from a stationary bike.  I have been using the GCN videos on youtube recently on the turbo.

2016-09-05 10:49 AM
in reply to: FrankieP78

User image

Member
77
252525
High Desert Heaven, Oregon
Subject: RE: Starting from zero
I'm going to concur and say get some advice from a coach on swimming form. Swimming can seem very daunting at the start, but with some good advice from a coach and practice on form, the speed and distance will come naturally. I knew how to swim a decent freestyle, but my first foray back into the pool some 20 years later was little discouraging! I think I made it 400 meters before I was totally gassed!

When you do end up buying a bike to race on you don't need to buy the most expensive model... get something that fits right (a reputable shop will make sure the seat and handle bars are set correctly to position you) and spend time on the road. Additionally, buy some kit to train in that is comfortable and will enable you to get out the door as the weather cools. A bike shop may also offer some suggestions on riding groups that you can go with, which is a fun and informative way to learn more about cycling. Fitness on the stationary is good, but learning to shift and handle the changes in the road is going to be important for your success.

It's easy to work up scary scenarios in your head and in isolation. Reaching out for some mentoring and perspective is a great start. If you are able to execute well and enjoy your initial 25 weeks of base building, you will have an excellent platform to jump from into your 20 week specific plan. Be patient, seek some face to face advice and it sounds like we'll be reading your success stories in the race reports you'll be filing in the future!

2016-09-05 11:49 AM
in reply to: #5197684


20

Subject: RE: Starting from zero
Thank you so much everybody!!!

Still some questions: I fully understand the need of training hard (I chose tri because it is challenging if I wanted something easy I would keep doing the same running over and over again) but I recover hard one day after another. Is it better to train less days but for longer time or everyday reducing time at the beginning and increasing back as endurance increases?

I was thinking about some readings: what about "Your first tri..." written by J. Friel?

Thank you so much
2016-09-06 8:45 AM
in reply to: FrankieP78


265
1001002525
Subject: RE: Starting from zero
"Your first tri" by Friel is a good basic primer covering everything including how to set up your gear in transition but it does not dive very deeply enough into any training regimen, IMO. The two Friel books that I have and like very much are the classic "Triathletes Training Bible" and his heart rate training book. In both, he discusses periodization and the physiology behind training for tri. It sounds like you are at that level of learning.


2016-09-07 6:19 AM
in reply to: FrankieP78


1

, Western Australia
Subject: RE: Starting from zero
Every session doesn't have to be a hard session.
Using a HM and training within zones will mean that you still get a good aerobic workout without the risk of burnout. There's lot's of info around about that risk of training in "the black hole".

If you're constantly feeling the effects of a training session the following day, chances are you're going too hard too often

As for swimming, one of the best things you can do is make sure you work on technique rather than just grinding out the distance. If you can't or don't want to have a swim coach check your stroke, there's a lot of good info and drills around which will help a lot.

As the old saying goes "Perfect practice makes Perfect"
2016-09-07 2:21 PM
in reply to: FrankieP78

User image


370
1001001002525
, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Starting from zero
Originally posted by FrankieP78

Thank you so much everybody!!!

Still some questions: I fully understand the need of training hard (I chose tri because it is challenging if I wanted something easy I would keep doing the same running over and over again) but I recover hard one day after another. Is it better to train less days but for longer time or everyday reducing time at the beginning and increasing back as endurance increases?

I was thinking about some readings: what about "Your first tri..." written by J. Friel?

Thank you so much



It has been said that if you want to improve in any one of the three you need to be doing them at least three times a week. Even better would be 4 or 5 times per week. But that isn't always possible.

I will say that I think that if you don't have much of a swim back ground it is better to do 4-20min swims than 2-40min swims. By the second half of the swim you will be too tired to focus on form. Then as you get better you can add time to those 20min swims. However, if your schedule doesn't allow for a 20 min swim you could combine that with a bike or run for a longer workout. Say, do a 20 min swim then a 30/40 min run. Some folks have a hard time getting to the gym/workout more than once per day.

Also, I think that the trainer is about the best way to get quick focused effort on the bike. A trainer and a spin bike aren't the same. I would recommend riding outside over riding a spin bike. You need to spend the time riding the bike you will be riding in the race.

2016-09-07 3:52 PM
in reply to: MikeD1

User image


216
100100
Subject: RE: Starting from zero
Originally posted by MikeD1

I think you are way further than starting from zero! Personally I would just spend the next couple of months riding bike more with about 80% pretty easy riding and approx. 20% doing some hard efforts. The hard efforts could be structured intervals like 3-5 times of 8 hard minutes with 4 minute rest. Or just push it hard up the hills etc. Basically working at getting more used to harder efforts and higher speeds. I would also either get a coach to help get your swimming form up to snuff, or watch and implement internet swimming lessons. It doesn't sound like you'll have any difficulty building up the swimming endurance, but it will help you so much more long term to get your form efficient as soon as possible.


I agree, you're starting way ahead of "zero" if you can do a half marathon in 1'37"! You can obviously run, and you're cardiopulmonary system are already well developed for distance racing. You're probably capable of doing a Sprint now, especially one with a pool swim. I wouldn't bother with 25 weeks of "endurance and core" training. You have the general endurance to do an Oly already. The biggest challenge you have ahead of you is probably mastering the swim.

Unlike the other two disciplines, where your ultimate performance is largely just a matter of conditioning, swimming has a significant technique component. That's why I'd suggest you start swim training right away, including getting some coaching. The sooner you get a coach involved, the fewer repetitions with bad form you'll have ingrained in your neuromuscular memory, and the easier it will be to make corrections. Early on, I'd also devoting at least part of your weekend workout to the pool on top of the twice-a-week you already mentioned. Twice a week is probably enough to maintain, but I don't think it's enough to optimize your progress.

Once you've reached a satisfactory level of competence in the swim, it's time to heavy-up the bike training. Whatever distance event you race, you will almost spend the most time on the bike. So equal gains in speed pay the biggest dividends on the bike. Fortunately, you can easily self-train on the bike....and with your running chops, progression should come quite easily.

I would only run a couple times a week since you're already quite competent in that discipline, and it's the most "destructive" to your body.

With 45 weeks to train, and as much time as you have to devote to training, I see no reason why you couldn't get quite competitive at either distance, especially if you can get the swim part down early. I'm a competitive swimmer, but decided to try my first triathlon this summer. For 10 weeks, I dialed back my swim training to two 45 minute workouts a week, added in ~3 hours of bike training and 2 hours of run training. I ended up finishing 2nd out of 12 in my age group, and this was an event with a very short swim (300 m, in pool).
2016-09-07 3:59 PM
in reply to: #5197737


20

Subject: RE: Starting from zero
Thank you so much to everybody for all the advices and inspiration you are giving to me, I really appreciate it.

I will try to make "my own" plan and I will for sure write it down here for your opinion.

I did not get the difference between trainer and spinning, I know that are different in "shape" but which one is the best for indoor training? I would say spinning but from previous post it seems not...

Thank you so much!!!
2016-09-07 8:14 PM
in reply to: #5197959

User image

Veteran
720
500100100
Aurora, Illinois
Subject: RE: Starting from zero
Hi there!

Welcome to the world of triathlon!

Shoot me a note. Happy to send you my couch to sprint plan for you to get you started!


2016-09-08 2:36 PM
in reply to: #5197979


20

Subject: RE: Starting from zero
Dear all,
I have prepared "my battle plan" would you please tale a look and give me your opinion?

Sun: long work out (Run 10-20 km or Ride as much as possible)

Mon: before work 1h run/bike indoor (the opposite of what did on sunday)

Tue: before work 1h spinning bike at the gym or 1h stationary bike after dinner)

Wed: late afternoon swim

Thu: before work 1h run indoor

Fri: late afternoon swim

I would start that way (more or less is what I am already doing) then as fitness become better I may and two more sessione on Wed/Fri before work (I think I need to ride as much as possible). From November on I would do only long workouts with bike to get fitter and more experienced and I will run only indoor (as it is the sport I am place better). After Xmas holidays I would start the 20 weeks olympic tri plan.

Does it make sense?

Thanks a lot
2016-09-08 6:36 PM
in reply to: FrankieP78

User image

Pro
6582
50001000500252525
Melbourne FL
Gold member
Subject: RE: Starting from zero

Originally posted by FrankieP78 Dear all, I have prepared "my battle plan" would you please tale a look and give me your opinion? Sun: long work out (Run 10-20 km or Ride as much as possible) Mon: before work 1h run/bike indoor (the opposite of what did on sunday) Tue: before work 1h spinning bike at the gym or 1h stationary bike after dinner) Wed: late afternoon swim Thu: before work 1h run indoor Fri: late afternoon swim I would start that way (more or less is what I am already doing) then as fitness become better I may and two more sessione on Wed/Fri before work (I think I need to ride as much as possible). From November on I would do only long workouts with bike to get fitter and more experienced and I will run only indoor (as it is the sport I am place better). After Xmas holidays I would start the 20 weeks Olympic tri plan. Does it make sense? Thanks a lot
1st are you really in Italy by the Swiss border? If so that's cool!

Next on the bolded above, IMHO, no.  Going with the big picture you presented, train for the Olympic.  Swim 3x maybe 4x per week to get than down.  No idea on what time you can swim a 100 or 200 in, would be useful info.  As with running there are metrics that can be useful to guide one in training.  One example is Critical Swim Speed (CSS), which can be adjusted in distance to even a 200m (or 100m) and 100m (or 50m) swims. It's all about building swim fitness which if an Oly is the big picture goal than I would start off going for that asap!  As fit run wise as you are, you could run after any workout, no need to make it a priority.  A lot of time is spent on the bike and getting 3x per week now would be helpful as a 40k at effort is challenging.

I posted about these in another thread.  Perhaps taking the 1st 24 weeks and rotating the focus on swim, bike, swim again, then getting into a 20 week or so program towards an Oly or Sprint would be a better idea as you will need the swim and bike focus regardless.  As with any premade program you can tailor the workouts for the time/distance that suits your needs.

  • Winter Maintenance Triathlon Training Program - 8 Weeks SWIM FOCUS
  • Winter Maintenance Triathlon Training Program - 8 Week BIKE FOCUS
  • Winter Maintenance Triathlon Training Program - 8 Week RUN FOCUS
2016-09-09 12:27 AM
in reply to: #5198085


20

Subject: RE: Starting from zero
Yeah it's real, I live Italy 5 km away from the Swiss border :-) nice place in the countryside with Alps scenario while running/riding...that's pretty cool and I am very lucky as I only relocated there for job reasons. I was born on a city on the seaside (Genoa the place where Cristoforo Colombo was born...) and that was one again quite a luck for my swimming lesson when I was a baby...

I will reconsider my plan and try to focus on swim, but I have still few races I want to run before winter will come...

Thanks everybody you are so nice and helpfull.
2016-09-10 2:36 AM
in reply to: #5198133


20

Subject: RE: Starting from zero
I have one more question: I have seen the mentor program on this forum and it seems very interesting as it may help me a lot as I am a beginner in tri and for sure would keep me more focused.
I have tried to give a shot to a couple of them about sprint and olympic but never got a reply.

Are they abandoned? How do they work?

Thanks a lot...I will check your answers after my saturday morning swimming session ??
2016-09-18 12:57 AM
in reply to: #5198253


20

Subject: RE: Starting from zero
I have read "Your first tri..." as "Triathlon Bible" currently is under review and shortly a brand new version will be available.
The book it was quite easy but for sure interesting and I have a question about it training plan:

What about using the plan "12 weeks Olympic experienced runner plan" right now?

It will last from October to December and at the end I should be able to accomplish an Olympic even if my time line is much longer. Then in January I can take a couple of weeks of relax and start once again an harder plan from half January to end of may (18 weeks) in order to be ready for summer time.

Does it make sense?

Thanks a lot!!!
Have a nice sunday!!!


2016-09-18 7:09 AM
in reply to: FrankieP78

User image

Master
1718
1000500100100
Loughborough, England
Subject: RE: Starting from zero

Originally posted by FrankieP78 I have read "Your first tri..." as "Triathlon Bible" currently is under review and shortly a brand new version will be available. The book it was quite easy but for sure interesting and I have a question about it training plan: What about using the plan "12 weeks Olympic experienced runner plan" right now? It will last from October to December and at the end I should be able to accomplish an Olympic even if my time line is much longer. Then in January I can take a couple of weeks of relax and start once again an harder plan from half January to end of may (18 weeks) in order to be ready for summer time. Does it make sense? Thanks a lot!!! Have a nice sunday!!!

 

This seems like a good idea as it will keep you focused.  From personal experience I find that without a specific plan to follow I lose focus and motivation, especially in the winter.

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Starting from zero Rss Feed