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2016-12-30 12:07 AM


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Subject: Improve swim with kicking?
Has anyone had any decent gains with their swimming by improving their kicking? I'm a FOP swimmer, 27m 70.3, but have a very weak kick. Almost non-existent when in a wetsuit. I'm not looking to necessarily improve my triathlon swimming, but just my swimming in general. I know a lot of very quick triathlon swimmers who also have a weak kick, so I know it's not critical in triathlon.

I've read that if you can swim 1.30/100m you should be able to kick 1.50/100m roughly.. Depending on the time of the season I'd be swimming around 1.20/100m, leaving on the 1.30, but kicking I'd do 100m in a little over 3minutes and that's going reasonably hard. The other day I did 10 x 100 kick with 20s rest, all 100s were around 3minutes. I've been working on certain aspects of my kick and fixed up a few technical issues, but I'm guessing this is definitely an area I need to work on! I've also had a few shoulder problems and have read having a powerful kick can give the shoulders some relief, which makes sense.


2016-12-30 11:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Improve swim with kicking?
Calling Left Brain
2016-12-30 1:10 PM
in reply to: goforit

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Subject: RE: Improve swim with kicking?
Originally posted by goforit

Calling Left Brain


I'll fill in for him, "fast swimming is fast swimming..."
2016-12-30 3:39 PM
in reply to: 3mar


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Subject: RE: Improve swim with kicking?
Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by goforit

Calling Left Brain


I'll fill in for him, "fast swimming is fast swimming..."


How do you mean?
2016-12-30 7:22 PM
in reply to: zedzded

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Subject: RE: Improve swim with kicking?
Originally posted by zedzded

Has anyone had any decent gains with their swimming by improving their kicking? I'm a FOP swimmer, 27m 70.3, but have a very weak kick. Almost non-existent when in a wetsuit. I'm not looking to necessarily improve my triathlon swimming, but just my swimming in general. I know a lot of very quick triathlon swimmers who also have a weak kick, so I know it's not critical in triathlon.

I've read that if you can swim 1.30/100m you should be able to kick 1.50/100m roughly.. Depending on the time of the season I'd be swimming around 1.20/100m, leaving on the 1.30, but kicking I'd do 100m in a little over 3minutes and that's going reasonably hard. The other day I did 10 x 100 kick with 20s rest, all 100s were around 3minutes. I've been working on certain aspects of my kick and fixed up a few technical issues, but I'm guessing this is definitely an area I need to work on! I've also had a few shoulder problems and have read having a powerful kick can give the shoulders some relief, which makes sense.


Sounds like your kick mechanics need work. Without seeing it it's hard to diagnose the problems and prescribe a fix.

Common problems ...

1. Kicking from the knees and not the hips / core
2. Dorsiflexed ankles
3. Low hips in the water (even on a kickboard its important to have a high body position)
4. Kicking too big/deep
5. Ignoring the upkick


2016-12-31 7:31 AM
in reply to: zedzded


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Subject: RE: Improve swim with kicking?
Yes, there is value in learning to kick well if you want to improve your swimming and get faster.


2017-01-01 8:50 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Improve swim with kicking?
Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by goforit

Calling Left Brain


I'll fill in for him, "fast swimming is fast swimming..."


It was a bit of an inside joke. That's Left Brain's go to line when it comes to kicking.

I'm in the same boat as you speed wise. I can hold just under 1:20/100m repeats leaving on 1:30 and am in the 26-27 range on a 70.3 and have a pretty bad kick. I've been working on my kick and have been getting better at in the last couple months in addition to working on other aspects of my stroke. I can now kick under 2:00/100m pace whereas before i was like you in the 3:00/1:00m pace range. I don't know that kicking really helps all that much in triathlon, but it certainly doesn't hurt. I don't spend a lot of time working on it, and wouldn't personally recommend anyone else spend a ton of time, but like anything else, if it helps even a little, it's worth it in my mind.

All the items Bo mentioned where things that I had to work on.
2017-01-01 4:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Improve swim with kicking?

Originally posted by zedzded

Has anyone had any decent gains with their swimming by improving their kicking? I'm a FOP swimmer, 27m 70.3, but have a very weak kick. Almost non-existent when in a wetsuit. I'm not looking to necessarily improve my triathlon swimming, but just my swimming in general. I know a lot of very quick triathlon swimmers who also have a weak kick, so I know it's not critical in triathlon.

I've read that if you can swim 1.30/100m you should be able to kick 1.50/100m roughly.. Depending on the time of the season I'd be swimming around 1.20/100m, leaving on the 1.30, but kicking I'd do 100m in a little over 3minutes and that's going reasonably hard. The other day I did 10 x 100 kick with 20s rest, all 100s were around 3minutes. I've been working on certain aspects of my kick and fixed up a few technical issues, but I'm guessing this is definitely an area I need to work on! I've also had a few shoulder problems and have read having a powerful kick can give the shoulders some relief, which makes sense.

I'm going to offer a bit of a different perspective on the kick.  LB - before you start screaming at me, we generally agree so hear me out (then shhhh ).

Even the most elite freestyle swimmers in the world get less than ~ 10% of their forward propulsion from their kick - and THEY don't have to get out of the water, hop on a bike, ride for a little bit and then go run.  On top of that, those swimmers typically are competing in events lasting only a minute or two in all but the longest events - then they often have hours, if not days, to recover before their next event.

You, on the other hand (not YOU, but "you" referring to triathletes in general) are going to be swimming for 10 minutes to well over an hour, depending upon your skill level and race distance.  Then, instead of hours or days of rest to recover, you will hop on a bike, ride around for what may be a considerable period of time, then go for what may be a run of significant length.   With that in mind, for the overwhelming majority of age group triathletes, I submit that focusing on your kick as a propulsive source is somewhat misguided.

For the average age group triathlete, your kick should drive your body rotation, balance in the water and stroke timing - NOT provide significant propulsion.  The limiting factor for the vast majority of age group triathletes in the water is drag and poor technique, not their kick.  In 47 years of first swimming competitively and then coaching swimmers and triathletes, I have never seen a reliable correlation between kick speed and swim speed.  I've seen athletes that couldn't kick a 100 in 2:00 but they could swim  a sub 60-second 100y with ease.  I've also seen people that could kick a 100y in 1:30 and only swim it in 1:20.  There are far too many variables to correlate kick speed directly with swim speed.

One final thing that a triathlete needs to factor into the calculus.  You only have a limited supply of glycogen (carbohydrate) in your muscles.  That stored muscle glycogen is only usable by the muscle it is stored in.  When those glycogen stores are gone, they are GONE.  You can't replace stored glycogen while you are exercising.  Do you really want to burn up those glycogen stores in your legs while you are in the water or would you prefer that energy source be available later for the run?

The best course I can think of to improve your kick in an effective way is to use streamline kicking.  Assume the streamline position, both hands clasped above your head and kick.  When you need a breath, pull with one arm, breathe, and return to the streamline position.  Next time you need a breath, pull with the OTHER arm and breathe, returning to the streamline position - repeat as necessary to finish the length of the pool.  Doing that, you will improve your streamline position in the water - thus reducing drag; you will also improve your symmetry in the water - thus reducing drag.

Just my humble two-cents.



Edited by k9car363 2017-01-01 4:30 PM
2017-01-01 10:47 PM
in reply to: k9car363


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Subject: RE: Improve swim with kicking?
Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by zedzded

Has anyone had any decent gains with their swimming by improving their kicking? I'm a FOP swimmer, 27m 70.3, but have a very weak kick. Almost non-existent when in a wetsuit. I'm not looking to necessarily improve my triathlon swimming, but just my swimming in general. I know a lot of very quick triathlon swimmers who also have a weak kick, so I know it's not critical in triathlon.

I've read that if you can swim 1.30/100m you should be able to kick 1.50/100m roughly.. Depending on the time of the season I'd be swimming around 1.20/100m, leaving on the 1.30, but kicking I'd do 100m in a little over 3minutes and that's going reasonably hard. The other day I did 10 x 100 kick with 20s rest, all 100s were around 3minutes. I've been working on certain aspects of my kick and fixed up a few technical issues, but I'm guessing this is definitely an area I need to work on! I've also had a few shoulder problems and have read having a powerful kick can give the shoulders some relief, which makes sense.

I'm going to offer a bit of a different perspective on the kick.  LB - before you start screaming at me, we generally agree so hear me out (then shhhh ).

Even the most elite freestyle swimmers in the world get less than ~ 10% of their forward propulsion from their kick - and THEY don't have to get out of the water, hop on a bike, ride for a little bit and then go run.  On top of that, those swimmers typically are competing in events lasting only a minute or two in all but the longest events - then they often have hours, if not days, to recover before their next event.

You, on the other hand (not YOU, but "you" referring to triathletes in general) are going to be swimming for 10 minutes to well over an hour, depending upon your skill level and race distance.  Then, instead of hours or days of rest to recover, you will hop on a bike, ride around for what may be a considerable period of time, then go for what may be a run of significant length.   With that in mind, for the overwhelming majority of age group triathletes, I submit that focusing on your kick as a propulsive source is somewhat misguided.

For the average age group triathlete, your kick should drive your body rotation, balance in the water and stroke timing - NOT provide significant propulsion.  The limiting factor for the vast majority of age group triathletes in the water is drag and poor technique, not their kick.  In 47 years of first swimming competitively and then coaching swimmers and triathletes, I have never seen a reliable correlation between kick speed and swim speed.  I've seen athletes that couldn't kick a 100 in 2:00 but they could swim  a sub 60-second 100y with ease.  I've also seen people that could kick a 100y in 1:30 and only swim it in 1:20.  There are far too many variables to correlate kick speed directly with swim speed.

One final thing that a triathlete needs to factor into the calculus.  You only have a limited supply of glycogen (carbohydrate) in your muscles.  That stored muscle glycogen is only usable by the muscle it is stored in.  When those glycogen stores are gone, they are GONE.  You can't replace stored glycogen while you are exercising.  Do you really want to burn up those glycogen stores in your legs while you are in the water or would you prefer that energy source be available later for the run?

The best course I can think of to improve your kick in an effective way is to use streamline kicking.  Assume the streamline position, both hands clasped above your head and kick.  When you need a breath, pull with one arm, breathe, and return to the streamline position.  Next time you need a breath, pull with the OTHER arm and breathe, returning to the streamline position - repeat as necessary to finish the length of the pool.  Doing that, you will improve your streamline position in the water - thus reducing drag; you will also improve your symmetry in the water - thus reducing drag.

Just my humble two-cents.




Thanks for that. Yeah it's more about improving my all round swimming as opposed to improving my triathlon swimming. The 27mins I did in a recent 70.3 I wasn't even swim fit and I beat guys quicker than me by a good 1min+ by sitting on a top age groupers toes, so to some extent you can get away with bad technique or lack of swim fitness in triathlon. But I also do a few open water races and want to do some masters pool comps and I'm sure my kicking is letting me down over the shorter distances like 50s and 100s. I did notice this week my quads were sore for the first time after a good kick session, perhaps this means I'm starting to work the right muscles? Never had aching quads before.
2017-01-02 5:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Improve swim with kicking?

Originally posted by zedzded
Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by zedzded

Has anyone had any decent gains with their swimming by improving their kicking? I'm a FOP swimmer, 27m 70.3, but have a very weak kick. Almost non-existent when in a wetsuit. I'm not looking to necessarily improve my triathlon swimming, but just my swimming in general. I know a lot of very quick triathlon swimmers who also have a weak kick, so I know it's not critical in triathlon.

I've read that if you can swim 1.30/100m you should be able to kick 1.50/100m roughly.. Depending on the time of the season I'd be swimming around 1.20/100m, leaving on the 1.30, but kicking I'd do 100m in a little over 3minutes and that's going reasonably hard. The other day I did 10 x 100 kick with 20s rest, all 100s were around 3minutes. I've been working on certain aspects of my kick and fixed up a few technical issues, but I'm guessing this is definitely an area I need to work on! I've also had a few shoulder problems and have read having a powerful kick can give the shoulders some relief, which makes sense.

I'm going to offer a bit of a different perspective on the kick.  LB - before you start screaming at me, we generally agree so hear me out (then shhhh ).

Even the most elite freestyle swimmers in the world get less than ~ 10% of their forward propulsion from their kick - and THEY don't have to get out of the water, hop on a bike, ride for a little bit and then go run.  On top of that, those swimmers typically are competing in events lasting only a minute or two in all but the longest events - then they often have hours, if not days, to recover before their next event.

You, on the other hand (not YOU, but "you" referring to triathletes in general) are going to be swimming for 10 minutes to well over an hour, depending upon your skill level and race distance.  Then, instead of hours or days of rest to recover, you will hop on a bike, ride around for what may be a considerable period of time, then go for what may be a run of significant length.   With that in mind, for the overwhelming majority of age group triathletes, I submit that focusing on your kick as a propulsive source is somewhat misguided.

For the average age group triathlete, your kick should drive your body rotation, balance in the water and stroke timing - NOT provide significant propulsion.  The limiting factor for the vast majority of age group triathletes in the water is drag and poor technique, not their kick.  In 47 years of first swimming competitively and then coaching swimmers and triathletes, I have never seen a reliable correlation between kick speed and swim speed.  I've seen athletes that couldn't kick a 100 in 2:00 but they could swim  a sub 60-second 100y with ease.  I've also seen people that could kick a 100y in 1:30 and only swim it in 1:20.  There are far too many variables to correlate kick speed directly with swim speed.

One final thing that a triathlete needs to factor into the calculus.  You only have a limited supply of glycogen (carbohydrate) in your muscles.  That stored muscle glycogen is only usable by the muscle it is stored in.  When those glycogen stores are gone, they are GONE.  You can't replace stored glycogen while you are exercising.  Do you really want to burn up those glycogen stores in your legs while you are in the water or would you prefer that energy source be available later for the run?

The best course I can think of to improve your kick in an effective way is to use streamline kicking.  Assume the streamline position, both hands clasped above your head and kick.  When you need a breath, pull with one arm, breathe, and return to the streamline position.  Next time you need a breath, pull with the OTHER arm and breathe, returning to the streamline position - repeat as necessary to finish the length of the pool.  Doing that, you will improve your streamline position in the water - thus reducing drag; you will also improve your symmetry in the water - thus reducing drag.

Just my humble two-cents.

Thanks for that. Yeah it's more about improving my all round swimming as opposed to improving my triathlon swimming. The 27mins I did in a recent 70.3 I wasn't even swim fit and I beat guys quicker than me by a good 1min+ by sitting on a top age groupers toes, so to some extent you can get away with bad technique or lack of swim fitness in triathlon. But I also do a few open water races and want to do some masters pool comps and I'm sure my kicking is letting me down over the shorter distances like 50s and 100s. I did notice this week my quads were sore for the first time after a good kick session, perhaps this means I'm starting to work the right muscles? Never had aching quads before.

Wow!  My bad!  Sorry!  When I read your OP I truly didn't even see what I now have bolded.

That you want to improve your swim during swimming events - you specifically mentioned 50's and 100's changes things a little bit, but not a lot.

For a VERY good freestyle swimmer, kicking is still only going to contribute ~ 10% of the forward propulsion - for most swimmers it will be significantly less.

The amount of propulsion generated by the kick for the VAST majority of swimmers is not the problem, the issue is the amount of frontal drag created by the kick.

Keys to a "fast" freestyle flutter kick -

  • Extremely flexible ankles
  • Compact kick (I call it "in-contact" - your feet are never separated)
  • Kick from the hip
  • 6-beat kick (great for swimming shorter events, not so good for triathlon)

Propulsion from the kick is created during the initial moments of the downbeat of the kick as the top of your foot is moving water backwards.  The more flexible your ankles, the more propulsion you can create.  When you try to "muscle" your way through a kick, what typically happens is the knee bends more.  This does indeed briefly increase the propulsive force by creating a greater angle at the top of your foot, however it also increases the frontal drag by a greater amount because the front of your thigh is presented to the oncoming water.  Drag will win out EVERY time.

I still suggest your kick sets be 'streamline kicking.'  Lose the kickboard.  Kickboards reinforce poor position in the water while streamline kicking reinforces proper position in the water.

Work on your ankle flexibility with exercises like those found here - http://theraceclub.com/aqua-notes/power-swim-kick-flex-appeal/

Good luck!



Edited by k9car363 2017-01-02 5:54 AM
2017-01-09 5:20 AM
in reply to: k9car363


471
1001001001002525
Subject: RE: Improve swim with kicking?
Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by zedzded
Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by zedzded

Has anyone had any decent gains with their swimming by improving their kicking? I'm a FOP swimmer, 27m 70.3, but have a very weak kick. Almost non-existent when in a wetsuit. I'm not looking to necessarily improve my triathlon swimming, but just my swimming in general. I know a lot of very quick triathlon swimmers who also have a weak kick, so I know it's not critical in triathlon.

I've read that if you can swim 1.30/100m you should be able to kick 1.50/100m roughly.. Depending on the time of the season I'd be swimming around 1.20/100m, leaving on the 1.30, but kicking I'd do 100m in a little over 3minutes and that's going reasonably hard. The other day I did 10 x 100 kick with 20s rest, all 100s were around 3minutes. I've been working on certain aspects of my kick and fixed up a few technical issues, but I'm guessing this is definitely an area I need to work on! I've also had a few shoulder problems and have read having a powerful kick can give the shoulders some relief, which makes sense.

I'm going to offer a bit of a different perspective on the kick.  LB - before you start screaming at me, we generally agree so hear me out (then shhhh ).

Even the most elite freestyle swimmers in the world get less than ~ 10% of their forward propulsion from their kick - and THEY don't have to get out of the water, hop on a bike, ride for a little bit and then go run.  On top of that, those swimmers typically are competing in events lasting only a minute or two in all but the longest events - then they often have hours, if not days, to recover before their next event.

You, on the other hand (not YOU, but "you" referring to triathletes in general) are going to be swimming for 10 minutes to well over an hour, depending upon your skill level and race distance.  Then, instead of hours or days of rest to recover, you will hop on a bike, ride around for what may be a considerable period of time, then go for what may be a run of significant length.   With that in mind, for the overwhelming majority of age group triathletes, I submit that focusing on your kick as a propulsive source is somewhat misguided.

For the average age group triathlete, your kick should drive your body rotation, balance in the water and stroke timing - NOT provide significant propulsion.  The limiting factor for the vast majority of age group triathletes in the water is drag and poor technique, not their kick.  In 47 years of first swimming competitively and then coaching swimmers and triathletes, I have never seen a reliable correlation between kick speed and swim speed.  I've seen athletes that couldn't kick a 100 in 2:00 but they could swim  a sub 60-second 100y with ease.  I've also seen people that could kick a 100y in 1:30 and only swim it in 1:20.  There are far too many variables to correlate kick speed directly with swim speed.

One final thing that a triathlete needs to factor into the calculus.  You only have a limited supply of glycogen (carbohydrate) in your muscles.  That stored muscle glycogen is only usable by the muscle it is stored in.  When those glycogen stores are gone, they are GONE.  You can't replace stored glycogen while you are exercising.  Do you really want to burn up those glycogen stores in your legs while you are in the water or would you prefer that energy source be available later for the run?

The best course I can think of to improve your kick in an effective way is to use streamline kicking.  Assume the streamline position, both hands clasped above your head and kick.  When you need a breath, pull with one arm, breathe, and return to the streamline position.  Next time you need a breath, pull with the OTHER arm and breathe, returning to the streamline position - repeat as necessary to finish the length of the pool.  Doing that, you will improve your streamline position in the water - thus reducing drag; you will also improve your symmetry in the water - thus reducing drag.

Just my humble two-cents.

Thanks for that. Yeah it's more about improving my all round swimming as opposed to improving my triathlon swimming. The 27mins I did in a recent 70.3 I wasn't even swim fit and I beat guys quicker than me by a good 1min+ by sitting on a top age groupers toes, so to some extent you can get away with bad technique or lack of swim fitness in triathlon. But I also do a few open water races and want to do some masters pool comps and I'm sure my kicking is letting me down over the shorter distances like 50s and 100s. I did notice this week my quads were sore for the first time after a good kick session, perhaps this means I'm starting to work the right muscles? Never had aching quads before.

Wow!  My bad!  Sorry!  When I read your OP I truly didn't even see what I now have bolded.

That you want to improve your swim during swimming events - you specifically mentioned 50's and 100's changes things a little bit, but not a lot.

For a VERY good freestyle swimmer, kicking is still only going to contribute ~ 10% of the forward propulsion - for most swimmers it will be significantly less.

The amount of propulsion generated by the kick for the VAST majority of swimmers is not the problem, the issue is the amount of frontal drag created by the kick.

Keys to a "fast" freestyle flutter kick -

  • Extremely flexible ankles
  • Compact kick (I call it "in-contact" - your feet are never separated)
  • Kick from the hip
  • 6-beat kick (great for swimming shorter events, not so good for triathlon)

Propulsion from the kick is created during the initial moments of the downbeat of the kick as the top of your foot is moving water backwards.  The more flexible your ankles, the more propulsion you can create.  When you try to "muscle" your way through a kick, what typically happens is the knee bends more.  This does indeed briefly increase the propulsive force by creating a greater angle at the top of your foot, however it also increases the frontal drag by a greater amount because the front of your thigh is presented to the oncoming water.  Drag will win out EVERY time.

I still suggest your kick sets be 'streamline kicking.'  Lose the kickboard.  Kickboards reinforce poor position in the water while streamline kicking reinforces proper position in the water.

Work on your ankle flexibility with exercises like those found here - http://theraceclub.com/aqua-notes/power-swim-kick-flex-appeal/

Good luck!




Cool thanks. I actually do my kick sets with a snorkel as I feel it gets me in the correct body position. Not sure if that's the right thing to do as it feels a lot easier?


2017-01-09 11:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Improve swim with kicking?
Originally posted by k9car363

I'm going to offer a bit of a different perspective on the kick.  LB - before you start screaming at me, we generally agree so hear me out (then shhhh ).

Even the most elite freestyle swimmers in the world get less than ~ 10% of their forward propulsion from their kick - and THEY don't have to get out of the water, hop on a bike, ride for a little bit and then go run.  On top of that, those swimmers typically are competing in events lasting only a minute or two in all but the longest events - then they often have hours, if not days, to recover before their next event.

You, on the other hand (not YOU, but "you" referring to triathletes in general) are going to be swimming for 10 minutes to well over an hour, depending upon your skill level and race distance.  Then, instead of hours or days of rest to recover, you will hop on a bike, ride around for what may be a considerable period of time, then go for what may be a run of significant length.   With that in mind, for the overwhelming majority of age group triathletes, I submit that focusing on your kick as a propulsive source is somewhat misguided.

For the average age group triathlete, your kick should drive your body rotation, balance in the water and stroke timing - NOT provide significant propulsion.  The limiting factor for the vast majority of age group triathletes in the water is drag and poor technique, not their kick.  In 47 years of first swimming competitively and then coaching swimmers and triathletes, I have never seen a reliable correlation between kick speed and swim speed.  I've seen athletes that couldn't kick a 100 in 2:00 but they could swim  a sub 60-second 100y with ease.  I've also seen people that could kick a 100y in 1:30 and only swim it in 1:20.  There are far too many variables to correlate kick speed directly with swim speed.

One final thing that a triathlete needs to factor into the calculus.  You only have a limited supply of glycogen (carbohydrate) in your muscles.  That stored muscle glycogen is only usable by the muscle it is stored in.  When those glycogen stores are gone, they are GONE.  You can't replace stored glycogen while you are exercising.  Do you really want to burn up those glycogen stores in your legs while you are in the water or would you prefer that energy source be available later for the run?

The best course I can think of to improve your kick in an effective way is to use streamline kicking.  Assume the streamline position, both hands clasped above your head and kick.  When you need a breath, pull with one arm, breathe, and return to the streamline position.  Next time you need a breath, pull with the OTHER arm and breathe, returning to the streamline position - repeat as necessary to finish the length of the pool.  Doing that, you will improve your streamline position in the water - thus reducing drag; you will also improve your symmetry in the water - thus reducing drag.

Just my humble two-cents.




Amen, brother! By far the best post regarding kicking and triathlon swimming I've ever read. For the swim leg of a triathlon, you kick for balance and rotation, but NOT for direct propulsion. Even in a sprint, kicking is more about forcing a higher stroke rate and counterbalancing elevated stroke power than direct propulsion.

OP, I don't know where you read that if you can swim a 1:30 100, you should be able to kick a 1:50. That sounds crazy to me. I can just barely beat a 1:50 for a 100 kick without fins (assuming I don't cramp up first), but I can swim a 100 in under a minute from a wall push off, and in the 55-56 range off the blocks.

I kick a little to warm up, and I kick a little for active recovery between high intensity sets. Sometimes I use (small) fins to work on ankle flexibility, sometimes I just kick barefoot. But I don't do any high intensity flutter kick sets. I have just seen too little reliable evidence that flutter kicking fast behind a kick board makes you a faster freestyle swimmer.

I personally believe best way to get better at swimming fast is to practice swimming fast. For example, I do lots of 25's on shortish rest (+/- 20 seconds) at back-half 100 free race pace. I go till I swim myself out of power and can't hold the pace. Rest an extra minute and resume. Quit when I fail 3 times, fail twice in a row, or get to 30. If I get to 30, I know I've mastered that pace, can hold it for the last 3 25's of a 100 free race, and am ready to increase the pace. At this point in my development curve, I'm only increasing the pace by .1 second/25 yard.



Edited by gary p 2017-01-09 11:31 AM
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Started by iwantotri
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2007-11-28 1:04 PM ride_like_u_stole_it

have you ever improved your (swim) kick?

Started by Broompatrol
Views: 1453 Posts: 22

2007-07-25 6:08 PM J.D. the Fish

Ideas to Improve Kick in Swimming

Started by tboepple
Views: 1444 Posts: 11

2013-01-25 12:07 PM simpsonbo
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