General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Build phase is crushing me... Rss Feed  
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2017-07-13 12:17 PM

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Subject: Build phase is crushing me...
Hi all,

First season of tri, Did 1 last year and 1 a few years back but this is my first season of 5 sprints, 2 oly., and 1 HIM.

I'm currently using a plan out of Matt Fitzgerald's plan book and am getting destroyed in the build phase...

During VO2 max intervals (18x30s w/ 30s recovery) I can't seem to get my HR down during the slow recovery jogs. Is it normal to walk during the rest phases to see a noticeable drop in HR?


2017-07-13 12:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...

You're running too fast. (you're basically outrunning your fitness)  You want to be able to hit every interval at about the same pace.  If you can't, then you have to adjust your pace.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-07-13 12:31 PM
2017-07-13 12:42 PM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

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Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...

I might walk a little in the recovery, but usually it's a really easy jog, often well behind even an easy run pace.

Also, as was mentioned, the hard ones need to be hard, but consistently so across the board. First few, last few (and all between) should generally be about the same pace to just slightly faster on the later ones. Note that's for pace as HR probably isn't going to be the same, peaking a little higher as each interval is ticked off.

2017-07-13 12:45 PM
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The Woodlands, Texas
Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...
I have no problems hitting the intervals and keeping them consistent, its getting my heart rate down in between them that's the challenge.

Edited by Dill-Ag13 2017-07-13 12:47 PM
2017-07-13 12:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...

So are you saying that you can basically go the same distance with each interval?  Because if you can't you are kind of mixing apples and oranges. I can run for 30 seconds and jog for 30 seconds....but I'm going to get slower each time I run if I outrun my fitness.....the fact that I can still go 30 seconds is irrelevant...and not helpful for fitness building and getting faster.

If you want to go by just HR and your HR is spiking past some decent recovery in the 30s rest then you have to slow down. 

If you are running (for example) 200M in each 30s interval and your HR is creeping up you are fine....because you are hitting your interval each time.

The thing is, you aren't really doing "interval work"  with what you are doing.  It's more like a very short fartleck run.  If you want to do intervals, figure out what distance you can go in 30 seconds with your HR recovering to where you want. That's your interval.  Over time, you can increase the distance of your interval or add intervals as you get more fit.  It's easier to manage than what you are doing IMO.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-07-13 12:58 PM
2017-07-13 12:57 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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The Woodlands, Texas
Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...
Definitely a newbie here so bear with me...

Typical long run pace is 10min/mile

Intervals I'm doing are at 7:30/mile pace or so for 30s
For the rest I'll slow to an 11min/mile pace but my HR doesn't drop.

I end up feeling way too exerted at the end of the workout and I'm not sure how to remedy this. Slow down everything or walk during the rest intervals?


2017-07-13 1:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...

Originally posted by Dill-Ag13 Definitely a newbie here so bear with me... Typical long run pace is 10min/mile Intervals I'm doing are at 7:30/mile pace or so for 30s For the rest I'll slow to an 11min/mile pace but my HR doesn't drop. I end up feeling way too exerted at the end of the workout and I'm not sure how to remedy this. Slow down everything or walk during the rest intervals?

I would recommend just slowing everything down.  Try 8:00/mile/ and 12:00/mile and see how you feel.  The idea is to work a bit harder, but not to the point where your next workout is affected because you went too hard.  Play with your times.....you will find that spot where you are working harder but able to extend the work without feeling "way too exerted" as you hold the pace.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-07-13 1:04 PM
2017-07-13 1:07 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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The Woodlands, Texas
Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...
Thanks I will try that!
2017-07-13 1:50 PM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

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Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...


LB always has solid advice.

The one thing I would add is to make sure you have a good warm-up prior to starting the interval training. I like to have at least a mile warm up before starting any intervals. Real easy to pull or strain something with intervals.
2017-07-13 2:14 PM
in reply to: GODAWGS

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Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...
Isn't the point of shorter VO2 max intervals to get your HR up and keep it there? I've never done ones like that - I do more like 4 x 4' @ 5K race pace with 3' jog/walk recoveries. That also sounds like a LOT of intervals.
2017-07-13 2:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...

Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Isn't the point of shorter VO2 max intervals to get your HR up and keep it there? I've never done ones like that - I do more like 4 x 4' @ 5K race pace with 3' jog/walk recoveries. That also sounds like a LOT of intervals.

Yeah, that is the idea, but not to the point that it feels "way too hard" or it's "crushing" you.  And I agree, that IS a lot of intervals, another reason I doubt it's meant to be "all out" or even 85-90% like you would a track interval workout.

You still have to work at a place where you can hold each interval in the workout.....either by time or HR....once it starts going too far north you might as well just stop the interval work......nothing good is coming from it.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-07-13 2:20 PM


2017-07-13 3:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...

Think many getting into it will need to redefine what hard feels like, but also with backing off some at first to learn how things work. Learn it over several attempts. See how much soreness comes in over the next several days first. Will still get some benefits and be more sure of not getting hurt.

Something like 30/30 can be used to help introduce VO2max type workouts as well, since it's never going for all that long. It might go to 60/60 soon and then out to 3-5' in duration.

HR during recovery in these may not drop all the way back down, and that's part of the point of this pattern. With the intervals being short, the effort would have to be much higher to get the oxygen processing up to really drive that adaptation (the goal of the workout). But doing that would limit the number of reps that can be done. The pattern is a balancing act of work and recovery to give a little break, but still stay close enough that the next interval be back up at that more optimal level fairly quick.

The longer 3-5' ones have more time sustaining that level within each interval and work more independently of each other. In that regard at least. Legs are still going to tire more after each one.

But again, don't try to knock this out of the park right off the bat.

ETA: 18 is a lot of intervals, but at only 30" each that's a total of 9' working. Mike's 4x4' example is 16' working. So it's a lot because they're rather short.



Edited by brigby1 2017-07-13 3:17 PM
2017-07-20 12:31 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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The Woodlands, Texas
Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...
Thought I would circle the wagons on this.

I did my intervals last night again, this week was 10x1min w/ 1min rest intervals. The rest intervals were "active recovery" so I power-walked in this 90*F Houston heat and ran the intervals like I normally would. Heart rate did much better and I didn't feel like death afterwards.
2017-07-20 12:55 PM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

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Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...

Nice.......well done.

2017-07-20 4:23 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nice.......well done.

 

One of our typical work outs when I red shirted on the Track Team at a D1 University my freshman year of college was 20 x 200m intervals.  Our coach had us take turns setting the pace.  If I remember correctly the leader had to be around 27 seconds and the last man (who was usually me if I was not setting the pace) had to be under 29 seconds (if the last man didn't make it we had to redo that interval so I was always nervous when I was setting the pace but I don't think we ever had to redo a single interval ).  I don't remember our rest interval but it was more than 30 seconds.  I think it may have been more like 2 minutes and yes we walked and stretched.  No running. So yes it is common to walk to bring the HR down, but it depends on the length of your rest period how hard you go.  We never wore a Heart Rate monitor nor worried about anything but catching enough of a breather to be able to hit the next interval with the last man under 29 seconds.  If we hit the interval then that meant that our recovery was sufficient. :-)    

2017-07-21 12:46 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Build phase is crushing me...
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by Left Brain

Nice.......well done.

 

One of our typical work outs when I red shirted on the Track Team at a D1 University my freshman year of college was 20 x 200m intervals.  Our coach had us take turns setting the pace.  If I remember correctly the leader had to be around 27 seconds and the last man (who was usually me if I was not setting the pace) had to be under 29 seconds (if the last man didn't make it we had to redo that interval so I was always nervous when I was setting the pace but I don't think we ever had to redo a single interval ).  I don't remember our rest interval but it was more than 30 seconds.  I think it may have been more like 2 minutes and yes we walked and stretched.  No running. So yes it is common to walk to bring the HR down, but it depends on the length of your rest period how hard you go.  We never wore a Heart Rate monitor nor worried about anything but catching enough of a breather to be able to hit the next interval with the last man under 29 seconds.  If we hit the interval then that meant that our recovery was sufficient. :-)    




I was thinking the same thing - 200m intervals in track. Those were fun days!!!!


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