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New Tax Bill (Page 5)
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 2017-12-19 8:18 PM in reply to: Oysterboy |
Pro  9391     Omaha, NE |  Subject: RE: New Tax BillOriginally posted by Oysterboy I don't think this will play as such a huge victory for either the GOP or the Dems. Just too complicated and outcomes too heterogenous. One thing that really stumps me is why they dropped the top marginal rate so much, or at all for that fact. It just smacks of a donor-centric move, why would they open themselves up for such an obvious negative talking point, beyond me. I'm not stimulating anything with any money I get, it will go directly into my 403b. Even then your money will help raise the stock market up by putting more money into it. And, kudo's for doing that. So many people just blow any extra money they get. (me being one of them) Generally speaking I agree that tax cuts are complex and hard to quantify into the economy but this one is so drastic that I believe it will have very noticeable and positive effects. The only downside is the potential of increasing the deficit by $1.5T over 10 years. Obama increased it $10T in 8 years and nobody batted an eyelash. People will only see the positives. The top marginal rate is still too high and everyone needed to see a cut in thew new plan. Why the class warfare? Only give to the poor and keep screwing the rich, blah blah. It's no different than racial warfare or sexist warfare. They're different than me so they should be oppressed. People don't care about the top tax rate, what they care about is fairness and getting a cut themselves.
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| 2017-12-19 8:21 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Rogillio So it passed in the house. The sad thing is, although 12 reps voted against it, not a single democrat voted for it. I think next fall every republican on the ballot needs to run on the fact that the democrat voted against lower taxes and tax reform. Dems on the other hand can run against Roy Moore. ;-)
why would they vote for it? the bill was written behind closed doors, they haven't gotten to read it, and the republicans literally said, we don't want your help, input, or suggestions. Same ting was said about Obamacare |
| 2017-12-19 8:31 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Expert 2373 Floriduh | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill "The only downside is the potential of increasing the deficit by $1.5T over 10 years. Obama increased it $10T in 8 years and nobody batted an eyelash. People will only see the positives." Unless they make substantive cuts to SS, M'care/aid, the budget will still be in deficit, so the 1.5T just gets put on top of the pile. Make sure to thank your grandchildren. |
| 2017-12-19 8:58 PM in reply to: Oysterboy |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by Oysterboy "The only downside is the potential of increasing the deficit by $1.5T over 10 years. Obama increased it $10T in 8 years and nobody batted an eyelash. People will only see the positives." Unless they make substantive cuts to SS, M'care/aid, the budget will still be in deficit, so the 1.5T just gets put on top of the pile. Make sure to thank your grandchildren. They probably won't like me anyways after I spend all their inheritance on airplanes. haha I think you may be underestimating the support there is for cutting spending and more importantly increasing efficiency in our Government. The Pentagon alone cannot account for Trillions and Trillions of dollars. Clean up that mess and you've covered the tax cut and many other things. SS and M'Care do need fixing, but it's not just about "cutting them". It's about reforming them into viable products that work in todays world. Everybody freaked out when Republicans suggested giving people an option to invest in mutual funds with their SS funds. We can't do that because it is gambling with peoples money. Meanwhile the government wastes almost all of the money put in by people and give them an effective return of less than 1% over their lifetime (and spend all the actual money on other program) Yeah, that's totally better... /eyeroll
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| 2017-12-19 9:05 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill If you had the option to open a SS 401k type plan where the 15% (your portion and employer portion) was deposited every payday into your account. You could log into the account and pick from 100 (making up a number) mutual funds and watch it go up and down every day. You then get to have 100% of whats in that account when you retire at 65 (or whatever age) and withdraw it over a period of 20 years or whatever. I know what I'd pick and I know what the vast majority of Americans would pick. Yet, so many on both sides of the isle use fear and scare tactics to prevent it from ever happening. We've always done it this way and there's an administration with 65,000 employees that have to keep working at the SSA... blah blah |
| 2017-12-19 9:23 PM in reply to: #5232019 |
Expert 2373 Floriduh | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill I appreciate the fact that a portion of my retirement portfolio is not subject to getting potentially wiped out like in 2008. Don’t know about you but I lost 50% of my retirement savings during the Great Recession. If I was retired at that time I’d be asking Rog for some of his alpo. And be honest, No one can determine how large or small the return on SS payroll tax payments are- depends on long you live. |
| 2017-12-20 1:52 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by tuwood If you had the option to open a SS 401k type plan where the 15% (your portion and employer portion) was deposited every payday into your account. That's exactly what I get to do with my SS money.....and it's worked out REALLY well for me and everyone who retired before me. I've never paid a dime into SS and can't figure out why I'd ever want to. However, my wife is a regional manager for SSA so I'm good with the rest of you making your contributions. Edited by Left Brain 2017-12-20 1:53 AM |
| 2017-12-20 9:20 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by tuwood This is what the Democrats voted against. I know they've been trying to fool everyone and say that only the rich benefit from the cuts, but reality is going to hit them hard. The only logical argument they could make would be that they don't feel the revenue will overcome the cuts and they may be right or they may be wrong.
I had a long discussion with Joe and Ethan the other day. They feel they’re not getting enough from the bill... We drank shots of Fireball and went over and egged Laura and Seth’s house. Edited by mdg2003 2017-12-20 9:22 AM |
| 2017-12-20 9:25 AM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Veteran 1019 St. Louis | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill No one is concerned about the bill repealing the individual mandate? |
| 2017-12-20 9:30 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by tuwood If you had the option to open a SS 401k type plan where the 15% (your portion and employer portion) was deposited every payday into your account. You could log into the account and pick from 100 (making up a number) mutual funds and watch it go up and down every day. You then get to have 100% of whats in that account when you retire at 65 (or whatever age) and withdraw it over a period of 20 years or whatever. I know what I'd pick and I know what the vast majority of Americans would pick. Yet, so many on both sides of the isle use fear and scare tactics to prevent it from ever happening. We've always done it this way and there's an administration with 65,000 employees that have to keep working at the SSA... blah blah I’d love to able to manage my own SS account. Problem is the majority of this country couldn’t. It’s a safety net for the vast majority of our population. Without SS I’d bet well over 80% of the population would retire in abject poverty. I’m OK paying into this poor performing pig for that reason alone. Im personally not counting on it being more than gravy when I retire same as I’m not counting on my company pension. When someone else has control of your assets they can always take it away. If I make retirement with my company, I’ll take the lump sum option so they no longer have that control. |
| 2017-12-20 9:34 AM in reply to: Bob Loblaw |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by Bob Loblaw No one is concerned about the bill repealing the individual mandate? No, though I think it’s a dumb move by the republicans . When Obamacare implodes the Democrats will be able to use that reason to blame it all on the republicans. Once again the Democrats are playing chess while the republicans are playing checkers. |
| 2017-12-20 9:37 AM in reply to: #5232019 |
Expert 2373 Floriduh | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill I think the GOP is just getting their affairs in order before moving out of the majority in 2019 |
| 2017-12-20 9:57 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Expert 2373 Floriduh | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Oysterboy I don't think this will play as such a huge victory for either the GOP or the Dems. Just too complicated and outcomes too heterogenous. One thing that really stumps me is why they dropped the top marginal rate so much, or at all for that fact. It just smacks of a donor-centric move, why would they open themselves up for such an obvious negative talking point, beyond me. I'm not stimulating anything with any money I get, it will go directly into my 403b. Even then your money will help raise the stock market up by putting more money into it. And, kudo's for doing that. So many people just blow any extra money they get. (me being one of them) Generally speaking I agree that tax cuts are complex and hard to quantify into the economy but this one is so drastic that I believe it will have very noticeable and positive effects. The only downside is the potential of increasing the deficit by $1.5T over 10 years. Obama increased it $10T in 8 years and nobody batted an eyelash. People will only see the positives. The top marginal rate is still too high and everyone needed to see a cut in thew new plan. Why the class warfare? Only give to the poor and keep screwing the rich, blah blah. It's no different than racial warfare or sexist warfare. They're different than me so they should be oppressed. People don't care about the top tax rate, what they care about is fairness and getting a cut themselves.
Oh, someone didn't come to class the day they talked about supply and demand. Economic stimulus works when there is heightened demand. Me putting my money in the stock market creates zero demand as there is already an uber supply of money in the market. All it will do is help drive stock and dividend growth, and as we have seen, these poorly stimulate the economy. Actually, you going out and spending your tax windfall will stimulate the economy, but the bigger issue is does this bill place enough money back in the hands of people that will spend money on goods and services (good for stimulus) versus those who will put their money in the bank/markets (very little stimulus because there is no effect on demand). We'll see. |
| 2017-12-20 10:38 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by Oysterboy Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Oysterboy I don't think this will play as such a huge victory for either the GOP or the Dems. Just too complicated and outcomes too heterogenous. One thing that really stumps me is why they dropped the top marginal rate so much, or at all for that fact. It just smacks of a donor-centric move, why would they open themselves up for such an obvious negative talking point, beyond me. I'm not stimulating anything with any money I get, it will go directly into my 403b. Even then your money will help raise the stock market up by putting more money into it. And, kudo's for doing that. So many people just blow any extra money they get. (me being one of them) Generally speaking I agree that tax cuts are complex and hard to quantify into the economy but this one is so drastic that I believe it will have very noticeable and positive effects. The only downside is the potential of increasing the deficit by $1.5T over 10 years. Obama increased it $10T in 8 years and nobody batted an eyelash. People will only see the positives. The top marginal rate is still too high and everyone needed to see a cut in thew new plan. Why the class warfare? Only give to the poor and keep screwing the rich, blah blah. It's no different than racial warfare or sexist warfare. They're different than me so they should be oppressed. People don't care about the top tax rate, what they care about is fairness and getting a cut themselves.
Oh, someone didn't come to class the day they talked about supply and demand. Economic stimulus works when there is heightened demand. Me putting my money in the stock market creates zero demand as there is already an uber supply of money in the market. All it will do is help drive stock and dividend growth, and as we have seen, these poorly stimulate the economy. Actually, you going out and spending your tax windfall will stimulate the economy, but the bigger issue is does this bill place enough money back in the hands of people that will spend money on goods and services (good for stimulus) versus those who will put their money in the bank/markets (very little stimulus because there is no effect on demand). We'll see. I’d think they will blow it like most do now. People see a refund as extra money from the gubmint. It’s actually the government returning the money you ‘loaned’ them all year without paying you interest. A larger return of your zero interest loan will just get people buying bigger toys. I actively work at getting my refund under the 400$ mark. I got it one year to where I had to pay the irs ten bucks and I was ecstatic! I’m going to have to study the new numbers and change tactics , provided it actually does change anything for me. Doesn’t putting money in the market allow companies to invest that capital into their business? Which in turn puts money into their local economies and also get employees better wages. Better pay gives people more to spend and one thing Americans excel at is spending. Edited by mdg2003 2017-12-20 10:42 AM |
| 2017-12-20 10:42 AM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by tuwood This is what the Democrats voted against. I know they've been trying to fool everyone and say that only the rich benefit from the cuts, but reality is going to hit them hard. The only logical argument they could make would be that they don't feel the revenue will overcome the cuts and they may be right or they may be wrong.
Can you please post the source of this. I like this....even though the diversity of the characters is hilarious. They have everyone pretty much covered. Somebody really bent over backwards trying not offend anyone with their people icons. ETA, NM. I found it immediately. Edited by Rogillio 2017-12-20 10:43 AM |
| 2017-12-20 10:52 AM in reply to: Rogillio |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by tuwood Can you please post the source of this. I like this....even though the diversity of the characters is hilarious. They have everyone pretty much covered. Somebody really bent over backwards trying not offend anyone with their people icons. ETA, NM. I found it immediately. This is what the Democrats voted against. I know they've been trying to fool everyone and say that only the rich benefit from the cuts, but reality is going to hit them hard. The only logical argument they could make would be that they don't feel the revenue will overcome the cuts and they may be right or they may be wrong.
for those less google savvy https://taxfoundation.org/final-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-taxpayer-impacts/ I just want to know why the gay couple makes so little. That offends me. |
| 2017-12-20 10:54 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by tuwood Can you please post the source of this. I like this....even though the diversity of the characters is hilarious. They have everyone pretty much covered. Somebody really bent over backwards trying not offend anyone with their people icons. ETA, NM. I found it immediately. This is what the Democrats voted against. I know they've been trying to fool everyone and say that only the rich benefit from the cuts, but reality is going to hit them hard. The only logical argument they could make would be that they don't feel the revenue will overcome the cuts and they may be right or they may be wrong.
for those less google savvy https://taxfoundation.org/final-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-taxpayer-impacts/ I just want to know why the gay couple makes so little. That offends me. oh, never mind. They're old school gay and retired. So that makes sense. |
| 2017-12-20 11:06 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by tuwood Can you please post the source of this. I like this....even though the diversity of the characters is hilarious. They have everyone pretty much covered. Somebody really bent over backwards trying not offend anyone with their people icons. ETA, NM. I found it immediately. This is what the Democrats voted against. I know they've been trying to fool everyone and say that only the rich benefit from the cuts, but reality is going to hit them hard. The only logical argument they could make would be that they don't feel the revenue will overcome the cuts and they may be right or they may be wrong.
for those less google savvy https://taxfoundation.org/final-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-taxpayer-impacts/ I just want to know why the gay couple makes so little. That offends me. oh, never mind. They're old school gay and retired. So that makes sense. LGBTOSG? |
| 2017-12-20 12:07 PM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill My CPA sent the following links for a little more detail on the changes: Individuals: https://shar.es/1M9NC0 Business: https://shar.es/1M9LbC
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| 2017-12-20 12:29 PM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Expert 2373 Floriduh | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by mdg2003 Originally posted by Oysterboy Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Oysterboy I don't think this will play as such a huge victory for either the GOP or the Dems. Just too complicated and outcomes too heterogenous. One thing that really stumps me is why they dropped the top marginal rate so much, or at all for that fact. It just smacks of a donor-centric move, why would they open themselves up for such an obvious negative talking point, beyond me. I'm not stimulating anything with any money I get, it will go directly into my 403b. Even then your money will help raise the stock market up by putting more money into it. And, kudo's for doing that. So many people just blow any extra money they get. (me being one of them) Generally speaking I agree that tax cuts are complex and hard to quantify into the economy but this one is so drastic that I believe it will have very noticeable and positive effects. The only downside is the potential of increasing the deficit by $1.5T over 10 years. Obama increased it $10T in 8 years and nobody batted an eyelash. People will only see the positives. The top marginal rate is still too high and everyone needed to see a cut in thew new plan. Why the class warfare? Only give to the poor and keep screwing the rich, blah blah. It's no different than racial warfare or sexist warfare. They're different than me so they should be oppressed. People don't care about the top tax rate, what they care about is fairness and getting a cut themselves.
Oh, someone didn't come to class the day they talked about supply and demand. Economic stimulus works when there is heightened demand. Me putting my money in the stock market creates zero demand as there is already an uber supply of money in the market. All it will do is help drive stock and dividend growth, and as we have seen, these poorly stimulate the economy. Actually, you going out and spending your tax windfall will stimulate the economy, but the bigger issue is does this bill place enough money back in the hands of people that will spend money on goods and services (good for stimulus) versus those who will put their money in the bank/markets (very little stimulus because there is no effect on demand). We'll see. I’d think they will blow it like most do now. People see a refund as extra money from the gubmint. It’s actually the government returning the money you ‘loaned’ them all year without paying you interest . A larger return of your zero interest loan will just get people buying bigger toys. I actively work at getting my refund under the 400$ mark. I got it one year to where I had to pay the irs ten bucks and I was ecstatic! I’m going to have to study the new numbers and change tactics , provided it actually does change anything for me. Doesn’t putting money in the market allow companies to invest that capital into their business? Which in turn puts money into their local economies and also get employees better wages. Better pay gives people more to spend and one thing Americans excel at is spending. As everyone has scored this bill as deficit spending, this statement should more accurately read "It’s actually the government borrowing money from China (and elsewhere) to give to you, and your grandkids will pay the interest. As for that second statement, companies will not invest money back in their business without increased demand. With stagnant wages, there is just not a lot of pent up demand out there, this is why both interest rates and inflation have been low for a long time even though we have been at <5% unemployment for something like 18 months. Again, what the tax bill hopes to do is put bucks back in pockets of people that will spend that money on goods and services. The thing is that a larger percentage of that borrowed money will go to people who won't do anything other than save the money and this fails to stimulate demand. It will serve to make the wealthy wealthier though, thus the engine of wealth inequity. It just ain't all that hard guys... |
| 2017-12-20 12:50 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Expert 2373 Floriduh | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by tuwood My CPA sent the following links for a little more detail on the changes: Individuals: https://shar.es/1M9NC0 Business: https://shar.es/1M9LbC
Good link Tony, thanks. I'm not real sure how this is gonna effect us as I don't know if we will still itemize or take the standard deduction. I have to talk to my CPA., he's my BIL and is coming over the house for XMas. I'll have this talk before we whack too much on the wassail. Does look like my bracket dropped by 3%, woohoo! Thanks grandkids. |
| 2017-12-20 12:59 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill The thing that I just don't get is all the people who are emphatically praising or trashing the bill. Both sides can't be right....which means one side are gonna look like complete fools come the next election. I can already imagine the ads..... If I lived in a blue state or blue district and my rep and senator voted against the tax cuts and come March I see an extra $200 a month in my take home pay, I'm gonna know, somebody lied! |
| 2017-12-20 2:14 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Expert 2373 Floriduh | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by Rogillio The thing that I just don't get is all the people who are emphatically praising or trashing the bill. Both sides can't be right....which means one side are gonna look like complete fools come the next election. I can already imagine the ads..... If I lived in a blue state or blue district and my rep and senator voted against the tax cuts and come March I see an extra $200 a month in my take home pay, I'm gonna know, somebody lied! The answer is that, like Obamacare, it's complicated. With the midterms less than a year away, the dems are looking to score points on a bill that is 100% republican. (Look at how the republicans scored big after Obamacare passed). The republicans are trying to sell a bill as a middle-class tax cut that really gives a lot to the well-off and wealthy. They both want to make the issues black and white, where the truth is shades of gray. Likely everyone will get something: some a little, some a whole lot more. Will it stimulate the economy? No one knows. The bigger fight will be the inevitable "reform" of entitlements as they have just steeled in more deficit spending. Gonna be a great 2018! |
| 2017-12-20 3:34 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Veteran 1019 St. Louis | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill Originally posted by Rogillio The thing that I just don't get is all the people who are emphatically praising or trashing the bill. Both sides can't be right....which means one side are gonna look like complete fools come the next election. I can already imagine the ads..... If I lived in a blue state or blue district and my rep and senator voted against the tax cuts and come March I see an extra $200 a month in my take home pay, I'm gonna know, somebody lied! To a family that gets $200/month extra but has their insurance premiums go up by $200/month, Republicans won't be looking too good. Especially for any family that currently uses CHIP, that they sorta forgot to renew. Maybe premiums won't go up near that amount, but they'll definitely eat up a good chunk of the money people are going to be getting back in lower taxes. I really don't get why people aren't worried about repealing the individual mandate. If Obamacare is a disaster with it, it's gonna be an absolute trainwreck without it. |
| 2017-12-20 4:44 PM in reply to: #5232019 |
Expert 2373 Floriduh | Subject: RE: New Tax Bill I haven’t heard $200/month in any middle income scenario so the bleak picture you paint of a family that relies on CHIP is likely worse than you outline. |
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