General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Newbie bike training question. Rss Feed  
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2018-01-28 7:01 PM

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Subject: Newbie bike training question.
Hey gang. I’ve looked around at the options for smart trainers and online training services such as zwift. However, I’m not ready to drop at least $400 for a trainer and another $10-15 a month right now.

I’m stumbled upon the CTXC AND GCN YouTube pages and have been using them for the past week. Does anyone here have any experience with these videos? Am I wasting my time and should just bite the bullet and get the trainer and subscription? I just want to make sure I’m not spinning aimlessly when I could be doing something more structured.

Thanks!


2018-01-28 7:43 PM
in reply to: 0


13

Subject: RE: Newbie bike training question.
What equipment are you currently using? Are you using a trainer to use those youtube videos?

As far as a smart trainer, I think a dumb trainer + power meter is a much better investment for around the same cost.

I personally just use a dumb trainer + vPower app (free app in garmin store) + garmin speed/cadence sensor to train with. I think my dumb trainer was $60 on amazon. The vPower app shows me my power inside and on outside rides and is consistent with zwift/TR virtual power. Not sure what an actual power meter would tell me that the free app doesn't.

Edited by toomanyhobbies 2018-01-28 7:46 PM
2018-01-28 8:01 PM
in reply to: #5236399

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Subject: RE: Newbie bike training question.
I’m currently using my cervelo p2 on a “dumb” mag trainer. I have a wahoo speed and cadence sensor. As far as I can tell the videos rely on PRE. I may look into the Garmin power sensor you mentioned.
2018-01-28 9:13 PM
in reply to: Parkland

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Subject: RE: Newbie bike training question.

I've got nothing against 'smart' trainers and the like but you absolutely do not need such a thing to train well.

Have a look at this:  http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=2332

There is a HR version, PM version, and also (maybe not in the link above?, but somewhere on the internet) an RPE version.  They all work.

And really there are loads of structured plans designed primarily for riding on the trainer.  You can follow any of them and just put on some music or a movie or whatever form of entertainment will help distract you from the pain...

2018-01-29 8:07 AM
in reply to: Parkland


13

Subject: RE: Newbie bike training question.
Originally posted by Parkland

I’m currently using my cervelo p2 on a “dumb” mag trainer. I have a wahoo speed and cadence sensor. As far as I can tell the videos rely on PRE. I may look into the Garmin power sensor you mentioned.


Nice set up. That vPower app I mentioned isn't a sensor. Its a free app in the garmin iq store that can be put into your garmin watch as a data field. It uses your stats like bike speed/cadence to determine your power, just like zwift/trainerroad virtual power. Its essentially a free power meter assuming you have a garmin watch.
2018-01-29 12:53 PM
in reply to: toomanyhobbies

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Subject: RE: Newbie bike training question.
Originally posted by toomanyhobbies

Originally posted by Parkland

I’m currently using my cervelo p2 on a “dumb” mag trainer. I have a wahoo speed and cadence sensor. As far as I can tell the videos rely on PRE. I may look into the Garmin power sensor you mentioned.


Nice set up. That vPower app I mentioned isn't a sensor. Its a free app in the garmin iq store that can be put into your garmin watch as a data field. It uses your stats like bike speed/cadence to determine your power, just like zwift/trainerroad virtual power. Its essentially a free power meter assuming you have a garmin watch.


Good to know. Ive been waffling between an Apple watch or a Garmin. This will probably sway me towards the latter.


2018-01-29 3:57 PM
in reply to: Parkland


13

Subject: RE: Newbie bike training question.
Originally posted by Parkland

Originally posted by toomanyhobbies

Originally posted by Parkland

I’m currently using my cervelo p2 on a “dumb” mag trainer. I have a wahoo speed and cadence sensor. As far as I can tell the videos rely on PRE. I may look into the Garmin power sensor you mentioned.


Nice set up. That vPower app I mentioned isn't a sensor. Its a free app in the garmin iq store that can be put into your garmin watch as a data field. It uses your stats like bike speed/cadence to determine your power, just like zwift/trainerroad virtual power. Its essentially a free power meter assuming you have a garmin watch.


Good to know. Ive been waffling between an Apple watch or a Garmin. This will probably sway me towards the latter.


I've got the AW3 LTE too. Awesome smart watch, absolutely terrible as a workout device. I spent 2 months with it before getting the 935. I could go on about all of the reasons it was terrible but just read DC rainmakers review he sums some of them up. Worst for me though was not being able to edit a workout, dropping HR during workouts for like 5 mins randomly, and GPS not starting when you start a workout.
2018-01-29 5:31 PM
in reply to: toomanyhobbies

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Subject: RE: Newbie bike training question.

Originally posted by toomanyhobbies What equipment are you currently using? Are you using a trainer to use those youtube videos? As far as a smart trainer, I think a dumb trainer + power meter is a much better investment for around the same cost. I personally just use a dumb trainer + vPower app (free app in garmin store) + garmin speed/cadence sensor to train with. I think my dumb trainer was $60 on amazon. The vPower app shows me my power inside and on outside rides and is consistent with zwift/TR virtual power. Not sure what an actual power meter would tell me that the free app doesn't.

A power meter is going to give you accurate power because it uses strain gauges for measurement.  The virtual power apps use a collection of inputs (mainly speed and power profile of the trainer) to estimate your power.  The results may or may not be accurate.  If you set up your trainer consistently (ie. same # of turns of the resistant knob and same tire pressure) you'll get more consistent data.  Here's a good article about the precision/accuracy issues you can run into using virtual power.

http://www.tri2max.com/blog/2016/3/1/accuracy-precision-and-virtual-power

I have a power meter but if I wanted to setup a structured program using virtual power I would get the following:

Kurt Kinetic Road Machine: dumb trainer - smooth and trouble free (this is what I have).  If you can find a used one at a good price, buy it.

HR monitor, speed and cadence sensors, and either/both TrainerRoad or Zwift subscriptions.  If you want to use Zwift I would check their equipment requirements.  I think they require Bluetooth compatible sensors if you're using an IOS device (iPad or iPhone) to view the app. 

A relatively cheap alternative to actual power would be to find a used Powertap wheel.  Powertap is offering a new rear wheel with the G3 hub (latest version) for $500.  I wouldn't want to pay more than $300 for a used wheel unless it was a) a better wheel and b) had the G3 hub...of course, that's just me.

2018-01-29 6:13 PM
in reply to: #5236402

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Subject: RE: Newbie bike training question.
Thanks for all the advice! I’ve been keeping my eye open for a good deal on a used power meter. The powertap hub is on the top of my list. Seems like it would be easiest to swap between bikes if I ever need to.

The Apple Watch was intriguing until I read it has less than 5 hr battery life while using GPS.

I read up on the Garmin virtual power and it looks like uses your trainers power curve in the equation. Not sure how I’d find that out.
2018-01-30 7:17 AM
in reply to: Parkland

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Subject: RE: Newbie bike training question.

Many power profiles are available on line.  For example:  http://www.powercurvesensor.com/cycling-trainer-power-curves/

However, whether your particular trainer conforms to the published curve, under the particular circumstances in which you are using it (tire, pressure, temperature, efficiency of drive train, etc., etc.), is another question.

If you can borrow a power meter, you can make your own curve.

On the other hand, IMHO, the importance of accuracy of power meters is overrated.  Repeatability is relevant and the general shape of the curve is relevant, but not the absolute value.  You want '100W' today to be more or less the same as '100W' yesterday.  But if your PM says 100W when it is really 110W, who cares?

Power meters are great, but 98.73% of people will get more benefit from just riding more, and harder, than they would get from a PM.

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