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2018-02-05 11:37 AM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)
I agree. Let Mueller do his job. Also let Congress do their job of congressional oversight of the DOJ and FBI. Let the House Intel Committee and the House Judiciary committee and committees in the Senate and the IG all complete their investigations and let the American people see the evidence. Let the American people see the evidence so we can decide who is/was lying.

I have seen "Russians Interfered with our election" cited as gospel for over a year now but have never seen any proof of it. All we hear is 'trust me, we have intel'. Or Russians ran ads on FB. LOL. OK, so what?!

Frankly, I don't trust anyone in government! And having been tortured in backwater jail, I don't blindly trust law enforcement either. There are good people of integrity and there are corrupt, unethical people. We talk derisively about lawyers.....but put a robe on the lawyer and suddenly he is the Honorable Judge. Everyone is capable of corruption.

Just remember, this county was founded by men who committed high treason against the British. If you believe in something strongly enough, there are no limits into what you would do. Whistling thru the graveyard and pretending the FBI is pure and holy is simply naïve. As long as people are involved the 'system' will never be perfect.




2018-02-05 11:53 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Oysterboy This is the backstory of the misleading statement Trump helped to craft: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-dictated-sons-misleadi... All accounts (so far) are that the Russians brought no dirt on HRC to that meeting, they were there to talk bout the Magnitsky Act, a set of sanctions that Putin would like to go away. It's just the fact they the took the meeting in the first place is problematic, Bannon called it treasonous. Wikileaks is a media organization? Bet you didn't feel that way when they published the Bradley Manning data dump, I certainly thought that was treasonous and that little good came of that "public service". Again, I think we all need to settle down and let Mueller do his job. No, it's not going to be over in two weeks, I think we are looking at this summer some time, everything I read does make it sound like they want to wrap up before the midterms. And if you want to start up a full blown inquisition of HRC (pitchforks and torches and all) then go for it, please rid the body politic of her, I think we would all be better off. And clean out the DRC while you are at it as they put their thumb on the scale to bump Bernie Sanders. Let Trump preside in a throne over the whole thing, he'd really love that and they can play the Bruce Springsteen song "Glory Days" as the soundtrack and sell MAGA hats. All of this will play awesomely for the midterms.


I do agree that they should not have taken the meeting in the first place, but it still doesn't make it illegal.  There were no laws broken, so everything beyond that point is just politics and conjecture to fit into the "Russia narrative".

I'm a huge supporter of Wikileaks, both in spirit and financially.  They are the picture of what the media used to be where they report on government abuses and expose corruption.
Remember, corruption and civil rights is the area that I'm probably further to the left than Obama on.  I despise the government doing what it's not supposed to be doing and I herald whistle-blowers such as Manning and Snowden as American Heroes!!!

I honestly have no problem with Mueller doing his job, but in my opinion he has completed his job investigating the Collusion narrative, but now is simply on a perjury trap witch hunt.  He likely has literal recordings of Trump throughout the campaign and transition and if he could catch him in one misstatement about where he was on a certain day (or whatever) under oath then he'll indict him for perjury.  It's just stupid at this point.





It is my understanding that Mueller cannot indict the POTUS for anything. He is supposed to 'report his findings' to Congress and it is up to them to indict or impeach or ignore.

I have also read it will be very hard to impeach or indict for obstruction if there is no underlying crime. IOW, he was not obstructing justice, just trying to kill a politically motivated witch hunt. Seems like I have heard witch hunt used before in reference to Mueller. Likewise, it will be hard to indict/impeach someone for perjury is there is no underlying crime. If they say he lied he can simply say he lied because for political reasons because he has been persecuted for a year + over this bogus Russian thing.

IMO, if they can't prove Russian/Trump collusion and show money changed hands or a quid pro quo was promised in writing or on an audio take, I seriously doubt they will recommend charges on anything.

I read that they have Trump on tape telling Putin that he "would have more flexibility dealing with Russia after the election"! Oh wait that wasn't Trump, that was Obama. Never mind.


2018-02-05 12:13 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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"Clinton associates were "feeding" allegations to former British spy Christopher Steele at the same time he was compiling the controversial anti-Trump dossier paid for by the Democratic National Committee and Clinton campaign, according to an unclassified memo from senior Senate Republicans who recently made a criminal referral."

Hmmm, so Clinton associates gave info to the guy they hired to do opposition research. Perhaps they also encouraged him to pass the information on to the FBI?

To anyone who has been following this whole fiasco for the last year things are about to snowball. Since the Nunnes report was declassified then Senate wants their criminal referral to the FBI declassified and released to the public. And of course the dems want their memo released......and the IG investigation will be releasing their findings this month....
2018-02-05 1:13 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)

Originally posted by Rogillio "Clinton associates were "feeding" allegations to former British spy Christopher Steele at the same time he was compiling the controversial anti-Trump dossier paid for by the Democratic National Committee and Clinton campaign, according to an unclassified memo from senior Senate Republicans who recently made a criminal referral." Hmmm, so Clinton associates gave info to the guy they hired to do opposition research. Perhaps they also encouraged him to pass the information on to the FBI? To anyone who has been following this whole fiasco for the last year things are about to snowball. Since the Nunnes report was declassified then Senate wants their criminal referral to the FBI declassified and released to the public. And of course the dems want their memo released......and the IG investigation will be releasing their findings this month....

My personal feelings are that we're only seeing the very tip of the iceberg.  The intelligence committee has the clearance to obtain all the documents that were submitted to the FISA courts and even see a list of every person that was wire tapped and for exactly how long.  There were FBI whistleblowers who got this started and I'm sure they were well aware that mgmt was breaking the law which is why they reported them.
The DNC and HRC campaigns are playing dumb with everything and it's been very hard for them to get to the bottom.  For example the DNC still "can't remember" who paid the $10M to the attorneys to funnel to Fusion GPS.  Sorry, we must have lost that check stub...  Look over there... Russia Russia.

I suspect there will be a lot of continued drip of information about the magnitude of the corruption.  I'm sure that the intellectuals of BT will continue to tell us how there's nothing wrong with any of it and Trump will win in a landslide in 2020.  So, I'm OK with it. 

2018-02-05 1:33 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)
"but in my opinion he has completed his job investigating the Collusion narrative, "

What possible evidence do you have to develop this opinion other than you want the whole thing to be over.
2018-02-05 1:38 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)
"It is my understanding that Mueller cannot indict the POTUS for anything. He is supposed to 'report his findings' to Congress and it is up to them to indict or impeach or ignore."

Actually, this is a legal grey area. POTUS is protected from folks taking out lawsuits against him, if they did that how in the heck would he be able to get anything done? However, if he/she has committed a specific crime, the law is far more murky and SCOTUS would have to weigh in. Most agree the mechanism is to impeach and then indict, but you cannot make the claim that POTUS cannot be indicted because that is not settled law.

And Congress cannot indict anyone.

Edited by Oysterboy 2018-02-05 1:38 PM


2018-02-05 1:53 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)

Originally posted by Oysterboy "but in my opinion he has completed his job investigating the Collusion narrative, " What possible evidence do you have to develop this opinion other than you want the whole thing to be over.

There's several reasons, but primarily because of where the evidence came from.  For example the most glaring issue was the Don Jr. meeting with the Russian lawyer, but when I discovered who set it up I became far less concerned. 
Then we have Reince stating, on the record that McCabe told him point blank that the entire Russia investigation was "BS".  Combine that with the personal Strzoks (Mueller lead investigator) texts to his girly friend stating that the whole Russia investigation was a nothing burger, it makes it hard for a rational person to believe anything other than there's nothing there.

On a side note, does anyone else find it weird that the alleged FBI love birds sent over 50,000 texts to each other, but not a single one of them had anything to do with an affair?  I would think if I'm texting my side squeeze I'd at least send a couple of suggestive messages.  lol

2018-02-05 2:01 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)

Originally posted by Oysterboy "It is my understanding that Mueller cannot indict the POTUS for anything. He is supposed to 'report his findings' to Congress and it is up to them to indict or impeach or ignore." Actually, this is a legal grey area. POTUS is protected from folks taking out lawsuits against him, if they did that how in the heck would he be able to get anything done? However, if he/she has committed a specific crime, the law is far more murky and SCOTUS would have to weigh in. Most agree the mechanism is to impeach and then indict, but you cannot make the claim that POTUS cannot be indicted because that is not settled law. And Congress cannot indict anyone.

I agree it's murky, and this has been my chief complaint about our system of government.

Politicians from all parties have abused the law in countless ways and there is zero chance that anyone will be held accountable.  Even with Nixon, he wasn't held accountable, he just resigned because he knew he got caught.  I don't know what would have happened if he refused to step down.
Clinton broke the law, was impeached by the house, but still didn't resign.  Obviously that was a simple perjury infraction, but still illegal.

Lets say Trump blatantly violated the law in numerous ways.  The process, from a legal standpoint, is for the DOJ (who works for him) works with the FBI (who works for him) to present evidence to the Congress (majority Republican) to then decide on impeachment. 
The Congress (majority Republican) could appoint a special council, but he/she is still reliant on the FBI for evidence.

I don't like the system because IMHO, it's not accountable enough no matter who is in office and it's easily abused.

2018-02-05 2:03 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)
Irritates me to no end to hear CNN and MSNBC constantly refer to the Nunnes memo as "the WH's attempt to discredit the FBI and the Mueller investigation". I just SMH.....unfortunately there are millions of Americans who take them at their word and never question it.

2018-02-05 2:08 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Rogillio "Clinton associates were "feeding" allegations to former British spy Christopher Steele at the same time he was compiling the controversial anti-Trump dossier paid for by the Democratic National Committee and Clinton campaign, according to an unclassified memo from senior Senate Republicans who recently made a criminal referral." Hmmm, so Clinton associates gave info to the guy they hired to do opposition research. Perhaps they also encouraged him to pass the information on to the FBI? To anyone who has been following this whole fiasco for the last year things are about to snowball. Since the Nunnes report was declassified then Senate wants their criminal referral to the FBI declassified and released to the public. And of course the dems want their memo released......and the IG investigation will be releasing their findings this month....

My personal feelings are that we're only seeing the very tip of the iceberg.  The intelligence committee has the clearance to obtain all the documents that were submitted to the FISA courts and even see a list of every person that was wire tapped and for exactly how long.  There were FBI whistleblowers who got this started and I'm sure they were well aware that mgmt was breaking the law which is why they reported them.
The DNC and HRC campaigns are playing dumb with everything and it's been very hard for them to get to the bottom.  For example the DNC still "can't remember" who paid the $10M to the attorneys to funnel to Fusion GPS.  Sorry, we must have lost that check stub...  Look over there... Russia Russia Russia.

I suspect there will be a lot of continued drip of information about the magnitude of the corruption.  I'm sure that the intellectuals of BT will continue to tell us how there's nothing wrong with any of it and Trump will win in a landslide in 2020.  So, I'm OK with it. 





Fixed that for ya.



(Marsha.bmp)



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2018-02-05 2:09 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)

Originally posted by Rogillio Irritates me to no end to hear CNN and MSNBC constantly refer to the Nunnes memo as "the WH's attempt to discredit the FBI and the Mueller investigation". I just SMH.....unfortunately there are millions of Americans who take them at their word and never question it.

But fortunately many more who see through their lies.  I know many people hate that Trump calls the media liars, but if it weren't true it would reflect poorly on Trump.  However, when the media confirms over and over and over again that they are liars, it truly benefits Trump in the long run when they lie.  So, I kind of chuckle every time I see them dropping their lies over and over again.



2018-02-05 2:16 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)
Originally posted by Oysterboy

"It is my understanding that Mueller cannot indict the POTUS for anything. He is supposed to 'report his findings' to Congress and it is up to them to indict or impeach or ignore."

Actually, this is a legal grey area. POTUS is protected from folks taking out lawsuits against him, if they did that how in the heck would he be able to get anything done? However, if he/she has committed a specific crime, the law is far more murky and SCOTUS would have to weigh in. Most agree the mechanism is to impeach and then indict, but you cannot make the claim that POTUS cannot be indicted because that is not settled law.

And Congress cannot indict anyone.


In order for the SCOTUS to weigh in, the POTUS would have to be indicted first. Like you said, the Constitution makes provisions for removing a sitting president and it is unlikely the current SCOTUS (with the exception of Ginsburg) would rule a sitting president can be indicted ignoring the Constitutional provisions for removing a POTUS.
2018-02-05 2:18 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Oysterboy "It is my understanding that Mueller cannot indict the POTUS for anything. He is supposed to 'report his findings' to Congress and it is up to them to indict or impeach or ignore." Actually, this is a legal grey area. POTUS is protected from folks taking out lawsuits against him, if they did that how in the heck would he be able to get anything done? However, if he/she has committed a specific crime, the law is far more murky and SCOTUS would have to weigh in. Most agree the mechanism is to impeach and then indict, but you cannot make the claim that POTUS cannot be indicted because that is not settled law. And Congress cannot indict anyone.
In order for the SCOTUS to weigh in, the POTUS would have to be indicted first. Like you said, the Constitution makes provisions for removing a sitting president and it is unlikely the current SCOTUS (with the exception of Ginsburg) would rule a sitting president can be indicted ignoring the Constitutional provisions for removing a POTUS.

Yeah, I forgot to mention a conservative majority supreme court in my previous post.

2018-02-05 2:21 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Oysterboy "but in my opinion he has completed his job investigating the Collusion narrative, " What possible evidence do you have to develop this opinion other than you want the whole thing to be over.

There's several reasons, but primarily because of where the evidence came from.  For example the most glaring issue was the Don Jr. meeting with the Russian lawyer, but when I discovered who set it up I became far less concerned. 
Then we have Reince stating, on the record that McCabe told him point blank that the entire Russia investigation was "BS".  Combine that with the personal Strzoks (Mueller lead investigator) texts to his girly friend stating that the whole Russia investigation was a nothing burger, it makes it hard for a rational person to believe anything other than there's nothing there.

On a side note, does anyone else find it weird that the alleged FBI love birds sent over 50,000 texts to each other, but not a single one of them had anything to do with an affair?  I would think if I'm texting my side squeeze I'd at least send a couple of suggestive messages.  lol





Been married for 30 years and I still flirt with my wife via text messages!

I think they really need to find the messages sent on personal devices. I suspect this is in work.....and Verizon or someone has this data. If they sent secret FBI related business on personal devices they will likely go to jail....or maybe Comey can exonerate them....ooops, Trump was not supposed to win.

2018-02-06 9:48 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Oysterboy "but in my opinion he has completed his job investigating the Collusion narrative, " What possible evidence do you have to develop this opinion other than you want the whole thing to be over.

There's several reasons, but primarily because of where the evidence came from.  For example the most glaring issue was the Don Jr. meeting with the Russian lawyer, but when I discovered who set it up I became far less concerned. 
Then we have Reince stating, on the record that McCabe told him point blank that the entire Russia investigation was "BS".  Combine that with the personal Strzoks (Mueller lead investigator) texts to his girly friend stating that the whole Russia investigation was a nothing burger, it makes it hard for a rational person to believe anything other than there's nothing there.

On a side note, does anyone else find it weird that the alleged FBI love birds sent over 50,000 texts to each other, but not a single one of them had anything to do with an affair?  I would think if I'm texting my side squeeze I'd at least send a couple of suggestive messages.  lol

Been married for 30 years and I still flirt with my wife via text messages! I think they really need to find the messages sent on personal devices. I suspect this is in work.....and Verizon or someone has this data. If they sent secret FBI related business on personal devices they will likely go to jail....or maybe Comey can exonerate them....ooops, Trump was not supposed to win.

I'm almost positive that all their texts were on their personal phones.  The fact that they were talking work stuff is what made them fall under the retention guidelines.

2018-02-06 9:53 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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This thing just keeps getting weirder by the day. 

OK, so here's what we know.

DNC/HRC/FBI hired Fusion GPS to manufacture dirt on Trump.
Fusion GPS hired a foreign spy who worked with the Kremlin to build the dossier.
Foreign spy leaks story to Yahoo reporter who works for Fusion GPS to corroborate said fake dossier.
Fusion GPS hires Russian attorney (or at least colludes with her) to set up meeting with Trump campaign to manufacture "Russian meeting"
Fusion GPS then gives information to FBI/DOJ which they use to obtain wire tapping permits against a suspected spy (Carter Page) in the Trump campaign, and begin wire tapping.

OK, now is where it's getting even weirder.  Carter page WORKED for the FBI as a spy in Russia as recent as 2016!!!  He then joined the Trump campaign and the FBI and Fusion created evidence that he "was a Russian spy" so they could wire tap Trump. 
This is still very early in the information coming out, but I am beginning the believe that even Carter Page was an FBI/Fusion plant within the Trump campaign to justify spying on Trump.  Holy F'ing bleep

This is the best spy novel I've ever read/watched and it just keeps getting better...



2018-02-06 10:05 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: The memo(s)
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Oysterboy "but in my opinion he has completed his job investigating the Collusion narrative, " What possible evidence do you have to develop this opinion other than you want the whole thing to be over.

There's several reasons, but primarily because of where the evidence came from.  For example the most glaring issue was the Don Jr. meeting with the Russian lawyer, but when I discovered who set it up I became far less concerned. 
Then we have Reince stating, on the record that McCabe told him point blank that the entire Russia investigation was "BS".  Combine that with the personal Strzoks (Mueller lead investigator) texts to his girly friend stating that the whole Russia investigation was a nothing burger, it makes it hard for a rational person to believe anything other than there's nothing there.

On a side note, does anyone else find it weird that the alleged FBI love birds sent over 50,000 texts to each other, but not a single one of them had anything to do with an affair?  I would think if I'm texting my side squeeze I'd at least send a couple of suggestive messages.  lol

Been married for 30 years and I still flirt with my wife via text messages! I think they really need to find the messages sent on personal devices. I suspect this is in work.....and Verizon or someone has this data. If they sent secret FBI related business on personal devices they will likely go to jail....or maybe Comey can exonerate them....ooops, Trump was not supposed to win.

I'm almost positive that all their texts were on their personal phones.  The fact that they were talking work stuff is what made them fall under the retention guidelines.





I don't think so. I think most (probably all) of the texts were on government issued Blackberries and that is why the government archived the text messages just like they do for all government issued devices. They also both carried personal phone where are not subject to government archiving/review...and some of the texts mention they needed to switch over to those personal devices.

The government would need a warrant to get access to their personal phone or records from Verizon/ATT. I have read that some in Congress have asked the FBI to get those personal phone records but in order to do that presumably the FBI would have to open and investigation and have probable cause that a crime was committed....unless they use Comey's playbook and just make something up. :-)

We see only the surface of the sea of corruption and what lies beneath, we cannot fathom. (pun intended)




2018-02-06 10:05 AM
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Subject: RE: The memo(s)
oops

Edited by Rogillio 2018-02-06 10:06 AM
2018-02-06 10:23 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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You may be right, I'm not sure.

2018-02-06 8:44 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Rep. Devin Nunes: "I just go by the old rule: whatever they accuse you of doing, they're actually doing."

Nunes: "Clear Link" Between Democrats And Russia During 2016 Election

Gowdy also just implied tonight that Sydney Blumenthal was a source that was used in the Steele Dossier (aka foreign spy).

Oh, and apparently Shiff got pranked by the Russians.  lol

2018-02-07 8:44 AM
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Subject: RE: The memo(s)

Originally posted by tuwood

Rep. Devin Nunes: "I just go by the old rule: whatever they accuse you of doing, they're actually doing."

Nunes: "Clear Link" Between Democrats And Russia During 2016 Election

Gowdy also just implied tonight that Sydney Blumenthal was a source that was used in the Steele Dossier (aka foreign spy).

Oh, and apparently Shiff got pranked by the Russians.  lol

I would have thought Nunes lost all credibility on this subject when he undermined his own memo and admitted on Fox & Friends that the FISA warrant application mentioned the political motivation behind the dossier. No?



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