General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How to increase swim cadence? Rss Feed  
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2018-06-02 8:25 PM

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Subject: How to increase swim cadence?
I started triathlon 5 years ago. Couldn't swim so it's been a "long" journey of improving my swim technique. I'm self taught so a lot of trial and error. Have done 4 full IM. My fastest wetsuit swim was 1.13 and my fastest non wetsuit was 1.20.

I seem to be a better pool swimmer than open water. Comparing to my wife who is the opposite. So been trying to increase my cadence as that seems to be common advice to improve open water speed.

I now have what I feel is a decent catch and pull, meaning that if I do it properly it is so heavy too pull my hand that I can't sustain it with higher cadence. It's like trying to spin faster on a heavy gear. I'm comfortable at about 28 strokes per 50m.

Finally my question. Any swim experts here who can tell me if it makes sense to deliberately sacrifice some of the efficiency of my pull I order to achieve a higher cadence?
Or any other thoughts or ideas?


2018-06-03 5:07 PM
in reply to: knuta99

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Subject: RE: How to increase swim cadence?
http://www.totalimmersion.net/blog/whats-best-stroke-count-found-mi...

it's more complicated that that, of course, but this is useful to think about
2018-06-04 8:16 AM
in reply to: knuta99

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Subject: RE: How to increase swim cadence?
Originally posted by knuta99


I'm comfortable at about 28 strokes per 50m...

Any swim experts here who can tell me if it makes sense to deliberately sacrifice some of the efficiency of my pull I order to achieve a higher cadence?
Or any other thoughts or ideas?


You're fallen into the trap that many swimmers do of equating Strokes Per Length (or Distance Per Stroke) with "Efficiency." SPL/DPS with no time-&-distance/speed/SPM data is useless. It's rather easy to "glide" your way to a low SPL/DPS, and gliding isn't fast. If your SPL for 50m is 28, but you're ~33 min/mile swimmer, you're probably gliding a lot more than you realize.

You should have a range of stroke rates you can deploy in various circumstances. I'm a ~60 Strokes Per Minute guy at mile pace, but can go well over 100SPM in a 100 sprint with only a slight decrease in DPS.

Working on sprint speed is a good way to expand your comfortable cadence range; then you can start to expand that up-distance.

2018-06-05 1:49 AM
in reply to: gary p

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Subject: RE: How to increase swim cadence?
Originally posted by gary p

Originally posted by knuta99


I'm comfortable at about 28 strokes per 50m...

Any swim experts here who can tell me if it makes sense to deliberately sacrifice some of the efficiency of my pull I order to achieve a higher cadence?
Or any other thoughts or ideas?


You're fallen into the trap that many swimmers do of equating Strokes Per Length (or Distance Per Stroke) with "Efficiency." SPL/DPS with no time-&-distance/speed/SPM data is useless. It's rather easy to "glide" your way to a low SPL/DPS, and gliding isn't fast. If your SPL for 50m is 28, but you're ~33 min/mile swimmer, you're probably gliding a lot more than you realize.

You should have a range of stroke rates you can deploy in various circumstances. I'm a ~60 Strokes Per Minute guy at mile pace, but can go well over 100SPM in a 100 sprint with only a slight decrease in DPS.

Working on sprint speed is a good way to expand your comfortable cadence range; then you can start to expand that up-distance.




Thanks!! You are right. I have been trying to make sense of this and of course strokes per time is more important than strokes per distance. Garmin tells me about 28 strokes per length, but which takes me 55 seconds at IM race pace. I assume Garmin only counts the strokes done with the arm that wears the watch so I think it is about 56 strokes then per 55 seconds or about 60-65 strokes per minute. Sprinting certainly increases this a lot.
I will take your advice and train at different pace- and effort levels.
Still I wonder though. When I sprint I notice I have two approaches, either go for a great catch/pull which requires so much power I feel I am pulling my arm out of my shoulder and it the cadence is not as high. Or go for really high cadence and a less efficient pull, so one compensates for the other. Do you do the same or are you able to maintain somewhat the same form/pull at different cadences?
2018-06-05 7:22 AM
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Subject: RE: How to increase swim cadence?
Originally posted by knuta99!! You are right. I have been trying to make sense of this and of course strokes per time is more important than strokes per distance. Garmin tells me about 28 strokes per length, but which takes me 55 seconds at IM race pace. I assume Garmin only counts the strokes done with the arm that wears the watch so I think it is about 56 strokes then per 55 seconds or about 60-65 strokes per minute. Sprinting certainly increases this a lot.


Well, that information changes my assessment completely. Your stroke rate is fine. You're slipping a lot more than you think you are.



As for my SPL at different speeds, I'll start a 1650 at 15-16 SPL (25 yards) and probably finish at 17, with a rate of ~60-65 SPM. For the 100 free, I'll be at 18 SPL, but a rate of ~100 SPM.

Edited by gary p 2018-06-05 7:39 AM
2018-06-08 9:08 AM
in reply to: knuta99

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Subject: RE: How to increase swim cadence?
Nope.

I highly advise my athletes to work on form and pull power to gain speed rather than faster cadence. Windmill affect won't really get you anywhere any faster, but will wear you out faster.

My athletes have made serious progress by focusing on keeping a long profile to glide on the strokes and a purposeful catch and pull to full potential and actually slow down their cadence.

Without seeing your form, it's hard to tell what would get you faster.

Also consider hand paddles as that will work on strength which translates well to open water.


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