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2018-09-04 2:09 PM

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Subject: 5k swim question
I haven’t been in the forums in ages since I’ve had a bad ankle sprain that has kept me almost completely off running or cycling.
I have in the meantime been doing lots of elliptical training, some strength and swimming with my triathlon club twice a week (around 3000m per session twice a week: one day more endurance type training - 300-400m sets, and one day more speed intervals). All in the pool.
The triathlon season here is almost over and I got a bit disappointed not to have been able to enter any races and found an open water swim race this weekend which I decided to enter.
1500m seemed to little to feel like a challenge, so the next distance is 5k...
I don’t mind being slow but was concerned about being able to finish at all or have everyone waiting at the finish line with patronising claps... lol
So I contacted the Organisers of the race to find out if they had cut off times and they asked me my predicted time. I thought: My average pace for a steady, comfortable 400m set is around 2:15/100m, I know a 2:20/100m is very comfortable for me. So I added a bit more and said probably around 2hrs.
Their response got me a bit worried I might be overestimating my abilities (the woman said: ‘2hrs is quite fast and you’ll definitely not be the last one!).
I’m used to swimming with my club and people who are much much much faster than me, so I’m wondering...
Does anyone here have experience of 5k open water swim? How does your time compare to your pool times? Should I really be doing the 1500m?
Thanks for any advice!


2018-09-04 3:26 PM
in reply to: tatous

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Subject: RE: 5k swim question

2:20/100 works out to 1:56 for 5K, so 2:00 seems a bit *optimistic* (maybe 2:05-2:10?) as it'd be hard to maintain form for 5K straight.  This doesn't account for sighting and swimming off-course or waves/chop.  Wetsuit??  

Back when I was training a lot, there really wasn't a "good" correlation between pool swimming and open water because I was rarely swimming continuously in the pool.    I could swim 100's (yards) on 1:50 (so figure 1:35-1:40 with 0:10-0:15 rest).  I probably clocked 1:45-1:50 in open water swims.  

Anecdotally, my triathlon swim times have been 1:50ish/100 and around 50th percentile.  The two open water swims with similar pace have put me in the 25th percentile (i.e. bottom 1/4th).  

2018-09-04 3:47 PM
in reply to: #5248918

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Subject: RE: 5k swim question
I meant 2:20 per 100m (so added up to 1:50 for the 5k). But I completely get your point, an extra 10min is not that much.
To be honest, even if it ended up being 2:20-2:30 I would be delighted just to complete!!!!
Yes, I’ll be wearing a wetsuit at the race (and they’ve allowed neoprene gloves- non webbed of course- and socks). It’s also a sea swim which my previous sprint triathlon times tended to be better, think because of the buoyancy of the salt water.
2018-09-04 3:50 PM
in reply to: #5248926

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Subject: RE: 5k swim question
Sorry, my maths is as bad as my swim... ????
2018-09-04 5:29 PM
in reply to: tatous

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Subject: RE: 5k swim question

2:20 = 140 seconds/100m
x50 (there are 50x100m in 5000m)
=7000 seconds or 116.67 minutes or 1:56:40 h:m:s.  (Math is one of the things I can do)   

If this isn't the first year for the race, can you look up previous years results?  That would help identify the range of times.  

2018-09-04 5:42 PM
in reply to: tatous

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Subject: RE: 5k swim question

A few thoughts:

1) the wetsuit will make you faster. 

2) Sighting and course corrections will slow you down. 

3) 2 hours of swimming will cause a lot of shoulder fatigue using a wetsuit (unless it's a sleeveless).  Have you been swimming in your wetsuit any to prepare yourself?

4) I'm guessing you'll be able to finish the swim in the 2-2:20 range...what feels comfortable for 400 meters will feel harder after 2k, 3k and 4k of swimming.  Are the times you're posting long course or short course meters?  Long course paces would be a better predictor (fewer turns).

It would be better if you were swimming more than 2 times a week but at least your swim sessions have some significant distance.

With all that being said, I would be tempted to do it too.  That would be a fun challenge.  

 

 

 



2018-09-05 3:25 AM
in reply to: #5248928

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Subject: RE: 5k swim question
Thanks very much guys!

McFuzz, it’s not the first year of the race but for some reason I can’t find anything on last years’ no pics, no results... only hong I can think of is if they changed the race name... I’ll keep looking.
I’m actually finding very little information online in general about 5k open water swim.

JoelO- my times are all in a 25m pool. The last time trial we done I swam 975m in the 20min.

I haven’t seen my wetsuit since last year’s season... think I need to wear it tomorrow to the club session!

I’m getting excited and nervous!!!!!
2018-09-06 8:44 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: 5k swim question
Originally posted by tatous

The last time trial we done I swam 975m in the 20min [in a 25m pool].




2:03/100m on a ~1k TT. That's a good piece of data to work from. We can do some extrapolation from there. Rule of thumb, you can take your 1k pace x 110% to get an estimate of your 3-5k pace. That takes you to 2:15/100m. My experience is that my open water pace is going to be 105-115% of my short course pool pace, depending on conditions and whether or not I'm in a wet suit. That top end (115) would be no wetsuit in wavy conditions. So let's narrow that to 105-110% since you say you will be in a wet suit. That puts you in a range of 2:22-2:29/100m. Let's call it 2:25. That would have you finishing right on 2 hours. I'd say you estimated quite reasonably. Looking forward to seeing how you actually perform.

If you can do a couple structured 3k workouts a week in the pool with a team, I have a pretty high level of confidence you can finish a 5k swim in a wetsuit. One thing you need to take into consideration is nutrition/hydration. A 2 hour effort is out there in the range where you might deplete your glycogen reserves before you finish. Is there a feeding station on this swim?

Edited by gary p 2018-09-06 8:46 AM
2018-09-07 1:31 PM
in reply to: tatous

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Subject: RE: 5k swim question
Originally posted by tatous

I haven’t been in the forums in ages since I’ve had a bad ankle sprain that has kept me almost completely off running or cycling.
I have in the meantime been doing lots of elliptical training, some strength and swimming with my triathlon club twice a week (around 3000m per session twice a week: one day more endurance type training - 300-400m sets, and one day more speed intervals). All in the pool.
The triathlon season here is almost over and I got a bit disappointed not to have been able to enter any races and found an open water swim race this weekend which I decided to enter.
1500m seemed to little to feel like a challenge, so the next distance is 5k...
I don’t mind being slow but was concerned about being able to finish at all or have everyone waiting at the finish line with patronising claps... lol
So I contacted the Organisers of the race to find out if they had cut off times and they asked me my predicted time. I thought: My average pace for a steady, comfortable 400m set is around 2:15/100m, I know a 2:20/100m is very comfortable for me. So I added a bit more and said probably around 2hrs.
Their response got me a bit worried I might be overestimating my abilities (the woman said: ‘2hrs is quite fast and you’ll definitely not be the last one!).
I’m used to swimming with my club and people who are much much much faster than me, so I’m wondering...
Does anyone here have experience of 5k open water swim? How does your time compare to your pool times? Should I really be doing the 1500m?
Thanks for any advice!


Your going to be fine.

I've done a bunch of OWS's this year myself. And am involved with a number of people who exclusively only do OWS's. 1.5km. 3.8k, 5km, 10km and up.

You WILL NOT be the last one. There is a huge range of swimming abilities at these races. You will get the ultra fast, and the snails. Looking at your time at 2:20/100m. You won't be the fastest, but you certainly won't be the slowest. Also, splits are awful to try and use in OWS's. A multitude of conditions can affect your swim time. Current, waves, water temp., route, etc.

Here is the last OWS i did...look at the fastest vs. the slowest... You should feel a lot better and confident about your ability.

https://results.rmraces.live/Toronto-Island-Lake-Swim/events/2018/To...

The fastest for a 3.8km was 1:01. The slowest was 2:20. Thats a helluva spread!

Like so many other sports..it may seem a bit intimidating to go out and try the first, but once you do...and gain the experience all that disappears.

Looking at the amount of training your doing. a 5k is completely doable. And...yes...your pace for a 5k needs to be slower than a 1.5k. You need to pace your self accordingly. The nuances, and tricks in OWS's are great...so no point in going over them here. Only that a 5k is very doable for the volume your doing now.

And finally..you just can't compare OWS's to pool times. When I train outdoor every friday..my splits can double depending on water codnitions! A glass lake vs. whitecaps is a big difference!

Get in there, own this race. Don't overthink it and have fun and learn from the experience!



2018-09-09 1:56 PM
in reply to: #5248918

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Subject: RE: 5k swim question
Thank you very much guys!!!! It encouraged me to do it and I did it! But had a bit of a disappointment...
Just before we got in the water the race organisers said that because of water temperature and conditions they were changing the cut off to just 20min from the first swimmer came in...
I only managed 4K in that time but was delighted with my time 1:40; and was still comfortable at that point to continue at the same pace which would have brought me in around 2:05. Just one woman managed the 5k, all the rest got 4K or less.
And I got the bug... absolutely loved swimming in the sea not feeling under pressure, seen jellyfish (the water was super clear), the waves, and the sand coloured crabs at the bottom lol
That last lap though... it’s guna haunt me...
2018-09-10 6:32 AM
in reply to: tatous

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Subject: RE: 5k swim question

That's awesome, congratulations!  Too bad about it being cut short but you know you could have done it so don't let it haunt you as it was out of your control.



2018-09-12 9:18 AM
in reply to: tatous

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Subject: RE: 5k swim question
Get hooked:

https://globalswimseries.com/


There is nothing but positive benefits to your triathlon training doing more OWS. Siting, acclimatization, endurance, swimming in groups, and rough competition kicking and getting in the way...

Keep with the OWS!!! And really happy you did 4km. How many people in your every day life can say they've swam 4km....I'd bet aside from your self....not to many!!

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