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2018-10-01 10:42 AM

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Cypress, Texas
Subject: Time off following/between races

My brother did the Virginia Creeper 100 mile Yeti trail run this weekend.  I also raced a week ago doing a 70.3 Triathlon. 

Following my race I took a full week of recovery before lacing up my running shoes, getting on a bike, or in a pool again. 

My bother doesn't know how much time he will take off at this point.  In previous ultra runs (35-75 miles) he got to a point that he thought to himself "I should never do another Ultra again".  During the 100 miler the thought came to him "I should never run again". 

When I was a runner the rule of thumb going around my training group was to focus on recovery and not do anything hard (like another race) for a day for every mile you raced (i.e. 3 days following a 5K, 6 days following a 10K, 13 days following a half marathon, 26 days following a marathon).  So...my brother has about 3 months before he should to do another Ultra.  I however have an Olympic race on the Calendar for this Saturday.  I am just wondering what the schools of thought are on recovery and closely scheduled races.  

First...is taking a full week off a good idea or bad idea in light that I had an Olympic race 2 weeks after a 70.3 race?  I can tell you that my legs were still sore going up/down stairs 3-4 days after the 70.3 race, but 7 days later when I laced up the shoes to virtually run the last 10K of the Yeti 100 with my brother that my legs felt as good as they did before my 70.3 race and I was able to hit the pace I wanted as well as I could before my races too.   

Second...what should your race prep be the week before you race if you have done nothing the week before.  You can't follow the 30% reduction in volume rule.  Again I can say that my threshold bike work out this morning felt like I I hadn't race or taken any time off. It felt like the dozens of threshold rides I have done before.  

Finally..I know that running is a lot more stress and recovery on your body than a triathlons but how much time do you guys take off from a Full Iron race?  How would that compare to a Ultra Marathon recovery time?

 



2018-10-02 9:14 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26


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Subject: RE: Time off following/between races
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

My brother did the Virginia Creeper 100 mile Yeti trail run this weekend.  I also raced a week ago doing a 70.3 Triathlon. 

Following my race I took a full week of recovery before lacing up my running shoes, getting on a bike, or in a pool again. 

My bother doesn't know how much time he will take off at this point.  In previous ultra runs (35-75 miles) he got to a point that he thought to himself "I should never do another Ultra again".  During the 100 miler the thought came to him "I should never run again". 

When I was a runner the rule of thumb going around my training group was to focus on recovery and not do anything hard (like another race) for a day for every mile you raced (i.e. 3 days following a 5K, 6 days following a 10K, 13 days following a half marathon, 26 days following a marathon).  So...my brother has about 3 months before he should to do another Ultra.  I however have an Olympic race on the Calendar for this Saturday.  I am just wondering what the schools of thought are on recovery and closely scheduled races.  

First...is taking a full week off a good idea or bad idea in light that I had an Olympic race 2 weeks after a 70.3 race?  I can tell you that my legs were still sore going up/down stairs 3-4 days after the 70.3 race, but 7 days later when I laced up the shoes to virtually run the last 10K of the Yeti 100 with my brother that my legs felt as good as they did before my 70.3 race and I was able to hit the pace I wanted as well as I could before my races too.   

Second...what should your race prep be the week before you race if you have done nothing the week before.  You can't follow the 30% reduction in volume rule.  Again I can say that my threshold bike work out this morning felt like I I hadn't race or taken any time off. It felt like the dozens of threshold rides I have done before.  

Finally..I know that running is a lot more stress and recovery on your body than a triathlons but how much time do you guys take off from a Full Iron race?  How would that compare to a Ultra Marathon recovery time?

 




I'd probably alternate s/b/r during the week, take the day off two days before, do something light the day before. . . and race. I'd probably keep it short, under an hour, and focus more on some quick bursts not to get flat but moderate effort other than that. But that's me . . . it most depends on how you're feeling and what type of volume you're used to and how well you recover. Not doing anything the week before shouldn't factor in if you get back to it this week. . . but it does take me a couple days to get back into it when I've taken that long off.
2018-10-02 9:31 PM
in reply to: ziggie204

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Subject: RE: Time off following/between races
I think it's really individual. But in general, running's typically the slowest to "come back" after a longer event, and pushing the run (volume and intensity) too quick is most likely to impede recovery. I have raced a sprint, an Oly, and a half marathon two weeks after a HIM (different ones!) with decent results. In each case (and after any HIM), I usually take a day or two after the race off from "training". Depending on if/what kind of travel was involved, I might do nothing at all, or an easy 1-2K swim and/or go for a walk (hour or less). Actually, I once did a full-on 3K+ master's swim workout the day after a HIM (why, I'm not sure--I think I was leaving town for the school year and wanted to say goodbye to coach and teammates) with no ill effects other than getting really hungry.

Later in the week, I will probably do some easy spinning on the bike and maybe by Day 4 or 5, some short runs in the 20-30 minute range. I won't do anything over an hour, or pick up the pace, until at least the following week. If I was racing in two weeks, I'd keep workouts between the races short (no longer than an hour for biking and maybe 45 minutes for running) but in the second week, put in some short pickups at race effort if my legs felt up to it.

Can't address the full IM or ultra questions as I haven't done one, at least yet. But I do recall from my marathon days that recovery from racing a marathon seemed to take a bit longer than for HIM. And I was younger....I think just due to a longer time using the same muscle groups in the same way, and more trauma from repeated impact.

2018-10-03 10:37 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Time off following/between races

Thanks...I don't have any regrets for taking a full week off after the 70.3, but wanted to know if that was likely to hurt my Oly race or not (so I could adjust plans appropriately).  I have felt good this week with 45 minute workouts and intensity up to race pace. I guess how I feel on Saturday will be the final say.

I have never done a Full distance Tri or any Ultra Races.  The full Marathon turned out to be a little bit longer than what I liked so that was where I stopped.  My brother did two full Ironman races in 2002 and I guess that was enough for his liking so he kept going.  He came in from out of town last night to surprise me for my 40th birthday.  He said that he was to the point he could run if he wanted (but doesn't want to yet so will some more time off).  I think my recovery has been quicker for every long event I have done.  I think you get better at recovery with experience.  

2018-10-03 3:30 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Eugene, Oregon
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Subject: RE: Time off following/between races
I really don't think a week off will hurt your race. After the HIM, your fitness should be at peak levels. You're not going to lose it in a week, just recover from the race. And if you have another week to get in some activity, that will undo any "flatness" you might have from not swimming/biking/running for a week.

I once went into a sprint off of four weeks of pretty much no running or swimming (maybe once a week of each, while on a bike tour in Europe). No intense biking at race effort either. Just hauling two people's stuff from inn to inn and biking at my mom's roughly 10-12 mph pace. It was my sprint PB and very close to my run PB for sprint distance. Go figure!
2018-10-03 5:49 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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1508
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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Time off following/between races

Originally posted by Hot Runner ....It was my sprint PB and very close to my run PB for sprint distance. Go figure!

 

Ya... I have done some running events on similar schedules leading up to the race and likewise have seen some PR's.  I toyed with longer "couch type" tapers but concluded that they are a tight rope walk.  If I executed the race perfect then it would result in a very fast race but if anything unplanned came up in the race I would fall off the rope and blow up.  I found that a more conventional type taper gave me more depth and resulted in being able to adapt to challenges on the course with less impact on my race.



2018-10-03 5:50 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Time off following/between races
First - usually a bad idea unless it's the very end of a long season and you're just trashed or sick right after your race.....if not sick then active recovery is best

Second - good coaches and experienced (successful) racers know best on this

Full Iron - active recovery a few days after even if it's the end of the season. Ultra Marathon same thing except you'd be using cross training and not running.


1 day off hard training for every mile of a road race is halfways decent of a rule, but beyond a 10k starts to be too much downtime from hard running if you're trying to build fitness and using higher intensity running as part of that buildup.


2018-10-03 8:52 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Time off following/between races
I think that performance was more an indication for me that for previous races I tended to overtrain and not taper enough! (Before I got a coach. That was one of the wake-up calls that maybe I needed one!) I was coming off a late spring HIM and several other strong races in the spring. It was a very active vacation, not a "couch taper", with probably 4-6 hours of biking (often very hilly) a day and some hiking, just not a lot of race-specific intensity. Guessing I had a strong enough base that I was able to keep up fitness even with one swim/run per week, and the hills plus carrying extra weight helped me keep power up on the bike without "speedwork". The runs I did do were hilly and fairly long (60-90 minutes) and the swims were open water in varying conditions, so probably okay if not ideal as race prep. But would not recommend that approach for most people! I would just run/swim when there was time, family okay with it, and a scenic location.

I did have one week after that vacation before the sprint. I did exactly as I would have done after taking a very easy or off week after a race--just some shorter workouts with race intensity pickups, in all three sports.
2018-10-03 10:55 PM
in reply to: rubletriathlon

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1508
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Cypress, Texas
Subject: RE: Time off following/between races

Originally posted by rubletriathlon First - ....unless you're just trashed ...then active recovery is best 

 

Of course I was trashed.  I did a 70.3 Triathlon. 

 

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