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2019-06-03 11:16 PM
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797
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McAlester, Oklahoma
Subject: RE: Running Frequency

Originally posted by k9car363

I know you didn't say anything about BQ, but I have to say I'm surprised that's a Boston Qualification course.  Except for a 1.4 mile climb it's all downhill.  Do you have designs on going to Boston?  If memory serves, you have the running chops to qualify and this looks like a great course to attempt a BQ on.  That will be a nice course in October.

I had a goal to BQ ten (10) years ago.  It was not so much something I wanted to do, but something all my running group wanted to do and I didn't want to be the only one in the group that didn't BQ and miss out on working with the group towards a common goal. I like to run fast.  I am pretty good at doing that up to about 17 miles.  Then I fall apart.  

My brother who is a year and a half younger than me has been doing Ultra Marathons for the past two years.  On his best day he could probably do a 3hr 25min marathon. He is the one that signed up first for the Marathon. He wants to go for a PR at the St George race.  I could do a 2hr 52 minute Marathon on me best day.  I would really like to pace my brother to a PR.  The last time I had a goal to do that was at a 15K last November.  I stayed with my bother for probably one mile before a 20's something guy looks at us old guys moseying along and said to himself it looks like I am the fastest guy here today I am going to win this.  As he pulled away from use I stuck with him.  Then I at 6 miles when he started to struggle I left him in the dust and won the race by 6 minutes putting me eleven minutes ahead of my brother who was 4th overall.  So if I pace my brother it may be harder to slow down than it would be to go pedal to the medal and do a 2:52.  I am not a young guy anymore though and it hurts when I kill myself for a PR at a long race. 

So for now I am just focusing on training to do a sub 1hr 30 min run split at my 70.3 race in September and I will see how I feel after that.  If my brother has trained hard and is ready to PR.  I will pace a 3hr 30 marathon.  If he doesn't train and isn't prepared for a PR then I may run with my other brother who lives in St. George who is 8 years younger than me and doing his first race over a 5K (and I think he has only done about 2-3 of those).  My younger brother could possibly do a3:10 Marathon but doesn't have the experience for a long race so he is a wild card.  My sister who is 3 years older than me has a running background about the same as my brother who is 8 years younger than me.  They didn't run track or cross country in highschool and have never been competitive runner.  My sister did win a local 5K two weeks ago.  She was the first overall female in a race with just over 100 people.  Her time was a little over 23 minutes which impressed me.  She said she will be running slow even though her husband wants her to BQ.  She is the most sensible of the siblings in the family so I think she WILL run slow.  If I were sensible I would put any PR or BQ goals aside and focus on running a perfect race to get my brother to a sub 3hr 30 minute PR.  Running slow takes more discipline than running fast but I think I can do it.  

 

Originally posted by k9car363

This next thing I'll say is perhaps the most important thing for a maturing athlete to remember.  When we were in our 20's and 30's, we could just push through discomfort then come back the next day and be fine.  When we are 50+, if we push through discomfort we risk permanent injury.  Listening to your body is by far the most important skill an older athlete can acquire.  The other skill we need to develop as we get older is learning how to ignore our younger training partners.  I remember when I was in my 30's.  I use to think older athlete's had just lost the motivation and drive to go fast and I remember thinking , on more than one occasion, "They just need to suck it up and push themselves a bit harder."  Quite a lot of 30-somethings today continue to harbor those same thoughts.  We gray guys/gals are different than our  30-something friends - we have been 30, they haven't been 50.

 

Yes...I have pushed it too hard at a few races since I passed my running peak at age 26.  Yes I have paid for it.  I am more disciplined now don't over do it.



Edited by BlueBoy26 2019-06-03 11:17 PM


2019-06-19 12:11 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Lethbridge, Alberta
Subject: RE: Running Frequency
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

... Running slow takes more discipline than running fast but I think I can do it. …



Ha! Problems I wish I had.
Good work BlueBoy, seriously!
You may already have this but for a bike pump, make sure the fitting that goes on the valve has a toggle to tighten or loosen it's seal. Mine goes on and off loose to prevent damaging the seal surface and the toggle tightens the seal for pumping. There's still a bit of scaring and leakage but it gets up to 110~120 psi easily.

Scott: Those hypoxic sets do help train for rough water. Masters coaches here seem to like them but I hate doing them. I've complained that efficient form lets a swimmer take more strokes per breath, but holding your breath doesn't give you better form. It just makes you WISH you had better form. You've got a point though, it does get one comfortable with hypoxia. Being comfortable breathing to whichever side is away from the waves is helpful too.

I'm still kicking along. Faltered a bit but got back to running. I can still manage ok for swim and bike but running has always been my challenge. Even though I've done some tris in the past, I let it slide for too many years and am basically starting over from scratch. I recently upgraded my worn out wristwatch and got a smart watch. With GPS and an "intervals" app for run/walk workouts, it seems to be helping a lot.
2019-06-28 1:59 PM
in reply to: Micawber

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797
500100100252525
McAlester, Oklahoma
Subject: RE: Running Frequency

Here is another perceptive on frequency/volume for aging athletes.  from Active.com Link 

Age. As we get older, we start to lose muscle mass, and our joints become less lubricated. We also lose motor skills, or the ability to move efficiently. The reduction of testosterone and human growth hormone production (important for muscle repair), that happens with aging also compromises recovery. The older we get, the more we should focus our training on frequency, strength, mobility, elasticity and motor skill, and the less we should focus on volume.

 

So...

1) the Joe Friel plan was to do 6 runs a week (plus biking & Swimming) in your 20's-40's then 5 a week in your 50's, 4 a week in your 60's, and 3 a week for 70+ years old. 

2) the FIRST Plan (Furman Insitute of Running and Scientific Training) said that everyone should limit their run training to 3 key run workouts a week (and make up the rest of the training with cycling/swimming).

3) And the Sergio Borges suggests that younger athletes, lighter athletes, and those with running backgrounds and do more/longer long runs because they recover faster, but that older, heavier, newer runnings should focus on more short light runs and fewer/shorter long runs.  

My brother is an Ultra Marathon Runner and is a big fan of Camille Herron (she is an Ultra Runner from Oklahoma much like my brother and they are the same age so they would have been at track meets together in preschool).  I got on her website and was quite impressed with her background.  She did her post-graduate work on some aspect of endurance running and said that her study concluded that the shorter, more frequent, lighter runs were the best plan for endurance run training.  

I find this all very interesting.  None of it is going to drastically change much of the way I do things.  I have been an experiment of one for three decades and I know what things hinder me and what things help.  :-)

2019-06-28 2:07 PM
in reply to: 0

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797
500100100252525
McAlester, Oklahoma
Subject: RE: Running Frequency

Originally posted by Micawber
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

... Running slow takes more discipline than running fast but I think I can do it. …

 Ha! Problems I wish I had. :)

 

Well when you have crashed/bonked as many races as I have...  It is really a pacing thing.  I get excited and think I can break all types of records in the first 1/4th of the race only to find out that I was not running smart and should have slowed down.  When it comes to this endurance stuff fast is slow and slow is fast.

Originally posted by Micawber
Originally posted by BlueBoy26 You may already have this but for a bike pump, make sure the fitting that goes on the valve has a toggle to tighten or loosen it's seal. Mine goes on and off loose to prevent damaging the seal surface and the toggle tightens the seal for pumping. There's still a bit of scaring and leakage but it gets up to 110~120 psi easily.

Yes...still in the market for a new bike pump.  The elbow for the race wheels must be a smaller diameter than the valve stem of the innertubes.  I will see if I can find something that toggles to tighten or loosen the seal.  



Edited by BlueBoy26 2019-06-28 2:09 PM
2019-07-05 4:13 PM
in reply to: k9car363


1

Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Gals Masters Mentor Group - OPEN
Hello all, I'm Troy, another newbie.

Story: 54yo male, recent weight loss of 27lbs 224-197, working on getting fit and decided to do a Sprint (800mOWS, 13M bike, 5k run) I didn't really plan well and only gave myself 8 weeks to prepare as the decision was kind of a spur of the moment thing the race is 7/21/19

Family: Married with two grown and gone kids, wife approves of doing the tri

Current Training: Prior to the decision to do my tri, I was doing body transformation training 3 days and easy running 2-3 days each week. Since the decision I have change to body transformation 3x, swim 2x, run 2x, bike 2x, doing doubles 3x week.
I can swim 1600m without rest, complete a 10k run fairly comfortably and have completed 13miles on the bike (my weakest in my opinion). I have completed several bricks (bike to run) and one "super mini tri" at the actual venue giving me a taste of doing all three and the transitions.

The lake we're swimming in is very clear and should be about 70°,
The bike and the run follow the same out and back and have moderate hills.
Weather should be about 70° to start and about 85° at completion.

As this is my first tri my whole goal is to finish. At this point what advice or input would you have to help with the mental part of this journey?

Thanks for any input.

2019-07-08 10:01 AM
in reply to: 0

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797
500100100252525
McAlester, Oklahoma
Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Gals Masters Mentor Group - OPEN

Originally posted by Troyh36 Hello all, I'm Troy, another newbie. Story: 54yo male, recent weight loss of 27lbs 224-197, working on getting fit and decided to do a Sprint (800mOWS, 13M bike, 5k run) I didn't really plan well and only gave myself 8 weeks to prepare as the decision was kind of a spur of the moment thing the race is 7/21/19

Welcome to the group Troy.  When I have taken time off from training 8 weeks is about the breaking point when I am starting to feel like I am in shape again. 

I don't do a lot of races.  I will just do one 70.3 race some years.  Two years ago I made my main race an Olympic race because it was the "Stake Championship"  and I thought that some of the people I knew from running in my pre-triathlon races would be at that race.  After that race I took about a month off and with no more races in the year my level of motivation was really low.  I considered just taking 6 months off and waiting until the following year to choose another race to train for to get my focus back.  I didn't like the lack of ambition I was feeling so 7 weeks before an instate 70.3 race I signed up for it.  I hadn't been training for 1-2 months and decided to just train to finish the race and not try to train to race or get a PR.  Well...I broke my PR by about 30 minutes on 7 weeks of training at that race. 

 

So...8 weeks is sometimes enough to get you to where you need to be.  consistency over a long period of time, however, is what pays the biggest dividends in training.  

 

Originally posted by Troyh36  As this is my first tri my whole goal is to finish. At this point what advice or input would you have to help with the mental part of this journey? Thanks for any input.

My first real triathlons was in 2015.  The BT Mentor groups are what got me through because I there were no swim groups, bike groups, run groups, triathlon clubs, or even local bike shops where I was living.  The training wasn't too hard to work out, but I had tons of questions about how Triathlons races worked.  Specifical how to set up transitions areas, how to execute a transition, what I needed on the bike for a race and how to set it up, how aid stations worked on the bike and run, equipment questions for the swim, bike, and run, nutrition for training and racing etc.  My suggestion would be to do your best to work things out for the race, training, equipment, nutrition, etc. but to ask lots of questions on this forum.  Scott (k9car363is the mentor for this group and has decades of experience in the sport as both an athlete and a coach.  He has a gift for boiling things down to what matters and what doesn't and explaining things in a manner that even my 9-year-old could understand everything.  

The general outline to most training plans is to do your swimming, cycling, running at a ratio of 1:2:1 by time spent in training.  You start with a build phase where you slowly increase your training time each week for the first 1/3 off your training to build your endurance, then work on strength for 1/3 of your training to increase your speed/efficiency, then taper to practice your race day game plan and getting mentally ready for your race and shed fatigue from your training.   

I would build volume/training time by 10% every week for three weeks then do a light week.  Then work on speed train/interval training for two weeks, then focus on figuring out how you are going to race for two weeks.  The last two weeks, practice going from the swim to the bike, practice going from the bike to run,  figure out what equipment you will use on race day, etc.  With your race two weeks away you don't have time to increase your fitness/strength so just spend this week and next week practicing for the race.  You will be swimming 800m in the Open Water so get in some swim workouts that of 8x100m at your planned race pace with 15-20 rest between intervals or 4 x200m at your race pace.  Get in another OWS or two if you can.  You will be doing a 13-mile bike ride so get in some intervals at the pace you want to race at such at.  You can do 6-8 minute at race pace then recover and do it over again a few times.  Practice that pace so you know what it feels like.  You will be running 5K so get in 3x1mile repeats at your planned race pace with 2-3 minutes easy jogging or walking in between of 5x1000K at your planned race pace with 2-3 minutes recovery in between.  Pract those transitions.  It is very easy to spend 2-3 minutes longer in transitions than you need.  If you practice that you can easily cut that time, but cutting 2-3 minute from you swim, bike or run leg is infinitely more difficult.  

 

Good luck.  We here to answer any questions you have.

 



Edited by BlueBoy26 2019-07-08 10:11 AM


2019-07-12 4:33 PM
in reply to: Troyh36

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Lethbridge, Alberta
Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Gals Masters Mentor Group - OPEN
The only thing I'd caution you on is going too hard on the bike, especially since it's not your strongest sport. If you come off the bike with some extra gas in the tank you can use it in the 5k but if you're already over extended by then you can give up a lot of time on the run. Also, don't make the mistake of training hard right before race day. A little warm up the day before can be good but If you're tapering properly, you'll feel like going out and killing it. Save that for the race.
2019-07-18 12:19 PM
in reply to: #5253111

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Nisbet, PA
Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Gals Masters Mentor Group - OPEN
I'll do an intro when I'm on my laptop, just wanted to post something for accountability sake here for now.

You will see me around periodically, I hope. Last year my Ortho told me I could swim if I could stand the pain and my body would tell me when to stop. Well, I didn't even finish one length of the pool. I hung my head and gave up.

Yesterday I took the grandkids to the pool and decided to give it a try. I completed a lap! After a few minutes rest I decided to try one more and completed it. At 61 years old, 385 pounds, and with a complete separation of the short head of my right bicep I will call that a victory.

The trick now is to go slow and take baby steps. Hold that 21 yr old Marine in my head back. So, no lofty plans or the race sessions planned. Only one race and that one is not until August 2020. The local triathlon is called The Lumberjack Tri and that Sprint is my goal for next year. More to follow.
2019-07-18 7:28 PM
in reply to: leatherneckpa

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Official BT Coach
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Indianapolis, Indiana
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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Gals Masters Mentor Group - OPEN

Originally posted by leatherneckpa

The trick now is to go slow and take baby steps. Hold that 21 yr old Marine in my head back. So, no lofty plans or the race sessions planned. Only one race and that one is not until August 2020. The local triathlon is called The Lumberjack Tri and that Sprint is my goal for next year. More to follow.

Hi Mike,

Every journey begins with a single step . . . or a single lap.  Well done!  I know this is counter-intuitive but the fastest way forward is holding yourself back.  Consistent small steps forward will add up to achieving your goal.  Good luck!  Don't hesitate to ask questions if/when you have them.

2019-07-22 3:20 AM
in reply to: leatherneckpa

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612
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, Kronobergs lan
Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Gals Masters Mentor Group - OPEN
Originally posted by leatherneckpa

The trick now is to go slow and take baby steps. Hold that 21 yr old Marine in my head back. So, no lofty plans or the race sessions planned. Only one race and that one is not until August 2020. The local triathlon is called The Lumberjack Tri and that Sprint is my goal for next year. More to follow.

Yes, baby steps. Take your time. Goof luck!

So what’s up grey ones?

My season did not start well. I had signed up for a couple of races in MaynMay but haven’t turned up, because of my plantar ”fascist”(which seems to be under control now, if not 100% gone)

But from June it gets better
15th June 1k OW swim: yes! (Time 22 minutes. OK time)
14th July: my international debut. An aquatlon (1+5) in France. I did well, especially on the run (under 26 min) considering I have not trained much . It was a fun day, followed that evening with seeing my favourite band in concert with my best friend. A perfect day.

That leaves me with (only) 2 sprints one this Saturday (a real sprint) and my home one (with a reduced swim) on my home turf, which I won last year and am hoping nobody real fast will turn up this year so I can win again with the same time.

I was signed up for a bigger event on 3rd August but decided to sell my place, I don’t know why...
2019-07-22 9:12 AM
in reply to: Rollergirl

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797
500100100252525
McAlester, Oklahoma
Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Gals Masters Mentor Group - OPEN

Originally posted by Rollergirl
I had signed up for a couple of races in MaynMay but haven’t turned up, because of my plantar ”fascist”(which seems to be under control now, if not 100% gone)

I got plantar fasciitis in February.  It was the first time I remember having it since coming back from a really bad sprained ankle about 15 years ago.  I know that it is most common in distant runners and ballet dancers and that it is said to be caused by a lot of impacts from bounding but I think that there is more to it than that.  I tried a new brand of shoes last fall and am wondering if the new shoes were a contributor to it and if the sprained ankle were contributors to it.  In other words, when everything is aligned properly there I don't get it, but when something gets slightly out of alignment is when this comes out.  I read that it takes about 6 weeks to heal so I just trained through it and yep, after about 6 weeks it was healed.   

But from June it gets better 15th June 1k OW swim: yes! (Time 22 minutes. OK time) 14th July: my international debut. An aquatlon (1+5) in France. I did well, especially on the run (under 26 min) considering I have not trained much . It was a fun day, followed that evening with seeing my favourite band in concert with my best friend. A perfect day.

The concert sounds great.  What a great experience.  

That leaves me with (only) 2 sprints one this Saturday (a real sprint) and my home one (with a reduced swim) on my home turf, which I won last year and am hoping nobody real fast will turn up this year so I can win again with the same time. I was signed up for a bigger event on 3rd August but decided to sell my place, I don’t know why...

Ya...winning the home turf races is fun.  I won a 5K the first week of June.  It is a free race so it gets a pretty big crowd (550-600 people) but many people do it just because they can and not because they have done a lot of training for it.  There was some competition there but not enough to keep me from winning.  I hadn't done any sprint Triathlon until this year.  I have done two of them this year and they have gone pretty good.  I have another Sprint that I will be doing on August 31.  Then I have a Triathlon the 21 of September.  I was supposed to do the 70.3 half Iron distance in September but three of my siblings signed up for a Marathon two weeks after that race and so I decided to sign up for it too just for the experience of running a race with three siblings.  There is an Olympic option at the race in September.  I have considered just doing the Olympic distance so I will be better recovery by the marathon, but am still doing the 70.3 training.  I will wait 4-6 weeks to see what I think as the races get closer.  

 



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