General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Question about wheels Rss Feed  
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2019-06-27 12:07 PM

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Subject: Question about wheels

Lookin for some advice from people who know much more about bikes than I do. If you're going to attempt using deep dish wheels, is it even worth it to go aluminum or is carbon fiber the only way to go? 

Found these online. Are they a bunch of bunk?

https://www.sgvbicycles.com/collections/wheels/products/70mm-wheelset-matte-black-html?variant=32750183951



2019-06-27 2:41 PM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: Question about wheels
Assume you are asking about the breaking surface?
Personally I like fiber on fiber as it's been sturdier in my experience. Aluminum mated to fiber might separate after some usage.

Keep in mind you want special brake pads for fiber rims and swap them out of you go back to aluminum wheels for training rides.

And, that those wheels you linked... you are hard core if you are going single speed. Those won't work for typical 10 or 11 speed bikes.
2019-06-28 1:05 PM
in reply to: TriJayhawkRyan

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Subject: RE: Question about wheels

I am sure that I do NOT know more about wheels than you do, but I did spend two years looking at wheelsets before I bought my race wheels and I learned just enough to feel like I was getting something I would be happy with.  I like riding my bike but really don't have a lot of downtime during the week to work on the bike so I wanted to keep things as simple as possible.  For me, that meant clincher and aluminum brake surfaces. My race wheels are carbon with the aluminum strip for the brake pad surface.  With the aluminum brake pad surface, I don't need to have a special brake pad which means that I just swap out the stock wheels that I use for training for my race wheels I am done.  It takes all of two minutes to make the swap.  The breaking is just the same as with my training wheels so I don't have to plan more breaking distance than with my training wheels.  It is supper easy.  As far as clinchers go, I can use the same tires/tube on my race wheels as a do on my stock training wheels.  I don't have an LBS within 50 miles of me so that is as high tech as I get with my wheels. They are fast wheels, easy to work on, and they handle really well with what I am used to from training.  I don't think an aluminum deep dish aero wheelset would change much about the wheel but weight.  

2019-06-28 1:40 PM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: Question about wheels

I can't comment on those wheels and you'll get different opinions on aluminum vs carbon vs disc braking.  I'm all carbon on my TT bike and I brake just fine.  A lot of people ride the HED black wheels and love them...carbon fairing with a textured aluminum brake track.  There is a weight penalty if you go with the aluminum brake track but the tires/tubes/pressures you use have a bigger impact on performance than a small weight difference.

2019-06-28 1:56 PM
in reply to: JoelO

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Subject: RE: Question about wheels

We have always raced carbon race wheels with our stock brake pads......nobody is dead yet.  The wheels are still in use when someone needs them. (Zipp 404's)  We never ride the race wheels for anything but races.  These 3 sets of wheels have seen everything from sprint to ironman races.....loaned to a variety of people.  No issues.

Same question every time....."do I need to switch brake pads?".....same answer every time....."nah, not worth it,  have fun".

2019-06-28 3:28 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Question about wheels
Not all carbon wheels are equal. Zipp has the best braking surface of any wheel.

Most carbon braking surfaces work pretty well when dry. The quality of the braking goes down when wet , goes down with the quality of the wheel and goes own with the type of brake pads used.

Flat, dry, don't worry. Fast descents on a steep hill in the rain (like IMMT), good luck with the wrong pad or a bad quality wheel.

I would never use a carbon wheels from not reputable source. Carbon wheel braking surfaces get extremely hot. If the resin is not of the required quality, the carbon will overheat at the junction of the tire and wheel and can be catastrophic.

If you only race them chances are you haven't braked much with them. Training with them would be another story.

I have both carbon and aluminum track wheels. I prefer the aluminum track especially on hills or when wet.










Edited by marcag 2019-06-28 3:30 PM


2019-06-28 3:33 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Question about wheels

That makes sense.  I don't know why anybody would buy cheap wheels just to have carbon....well,  of course I know why,  but it's not worth it to me.  Buy good equipment and ride it like you stole it,  you'll never be sorry.  (you don't have to buy new.....lots of great deals out there from the one and done crowd with disposable income).



Edited by Left Brain 2019-06-28 3:34 PM
2019-07-02 8:45 PM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: Question about wheels
Originally posted by trijamie

Lookin for some advice from people who know much more about bikes than I do. If you're going to attempt using deep dish wheels, is it even worth it to go aluminum or is carbon fiber the only way to go? 

Found these online. Are they a bunch of bunk?

https://www.sgvbicycles.com/collections/wheels/products/70mm-wheelset-matte-black-html?variant=32750183951




I've raced for years on both full carbon clinchers (zipp super 9 / 808) as well as an assortment of HED Jet wheels with aluminum brake surface, most recently the HED Jet Blacks 9/6.

My comments:

1. The wheels you have a link to are single speed, and besides that, no freaking way I'd trust them. Takes one piece of junk wheel collapsing under you to erase all those $$ savings with hospital bills!

2. The Zipps are very nice, blingy, and braked just fine with good brake pads, in my case, I used Swissstop black prince pads.

3. HED Jet blacks IMHO are the best of both worlds. As aero as any wheel out there, and the textured aluminum brake surface works fantastic in all conditions. AND, to those saying there is a weight penalty, that is not really true. A pair of Zipp 808 carbon clinchers weighs 1830 (direct from Zipps website). My set of Jet 9 rear and 6 front weighs 1817 grams (from hed website). A pair of JET 9's would be 1895. It makes sense as yes, the jets have the heavier aluminum rim, but because of that they can make the aero fairing lighter due to the fact they are non-structural, the aluminum rims are what the spokes are built onto. Oh, and the HEDs can be found for half the price of Zipps.

Cheers

2019-07-04 12:58 PM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: Question about wheels
The only two benefit you have of aluminum brake surface is when it rains and at very long and technical decent where you would brake a lot, and even that is greatly reduced with the modern carbon fiber brake surfaces.

At this point, I wouldn't buy a wheel with aluminum brake surface... the weight penalty is definitely noticeable and you do have separation issues to deal with.

If you want a good pair of race wheels, stick with known brands such as Zipp, Enve or to save a bit of money with only minimal compromise, FLO wheels.
2019-07-04 7:18 PM
in reply to: #5260333

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Subject: RE: Question about wheels
Sorry audiojan but that is false, you cannot notice the weight difference for 2 reasons
1. As I stated above, there is no weight difference!! Check the manufacturers websites and listed wheel weights.

2. Even if there were a weight difference you would not notice it. A weight diff of 200-300 grams is meaningless on wheels. Physics doesn’t lie. I put wheel weights into best bike split, or analytical cycling, no need to take my word for it.
2019-07-05 9:31 AM
in reply to: gibson00

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Subject: RE: Question about wheels
The weight of a wheel impacts 3 things

rolling resistance, in a very small way, just like adding a water bottle.
power to climb, the same as adding a water bottle, or something else, again pretty negligeable.
to spin up the wheel. This is where a lot of the noise about wheel weight comes in

A bike wheel is like a flywheel. It takes a certain amount of energy, ie power to get it going it up to speed.

What makes a wheel even more weight sensitive is the bulk of the weight is at the rim. The further from the axle, the more energy needed to spin it up. But also once spin up, more weight further from the axle will make it spin longer once power is no longer applied. Like a flywheel.

If you take 2 wheels, say a zip 303 and a zip 808. Imagine they weight the exact same thing because say the 303 has a heavier hub. It will take more energy spin up the 808 because it has more weight distributed away from the axle.

So this perception that you can feel a light wheel is true, but only during accelerations. Now the opposite is also true, a 808 will spin for longer tan a 303 once you stop applying energy.

In something like triathlon where you are not acceleration/decelerating constantly, it makes no difference

If you are riding crits, or covering accelerations in the Tour de France, maybe

BTW, this is also one of the reasons guys say tubulars are better due to weight. Same thing. Reducing weight at the furthest point from the axle.

To me, quality carbon wheels don't provide a cost ./ benefit ratio that makes sense. There is higher cost, lower braking ability and little performance gain. Especially in steady speed events like we do.

Cheap carbon wheels, especially clinchers are a safety hazard. People are crazy to use these.










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