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2019-08-05 12:07 PM

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Champion
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Subject: Mass shootings
All the politicians and talking heads in the media are looking to blame someone or something for the mass shootings. They want to blame Trump, the NRA, assault rifles, mental illness, video games, violent websites, lack of strict gun controls, etc

I submit one thing that is the reason: society.

The world has changed in the last 50 years. We have become more secular, we have more single-parent households, we have the anything-goes Internet, violent video games and on-line games, etc.

So what to do?

1. We can accept it as a product of our society.
2. We can “pass laws so we feel like we are addressing the problem.
3. We can train more people to use firearms so more people have concealed carry. Side note, I looked up concealed carry in my county and learned a few years ago open carry law was passed. No need to conceal. Go figure. I had no idea. I won’t get a concealed carry permit. If anyone ever finds out I am packing a CCP will be the least of my worries. If I ever have to pull a gun someone is going to die. IOWs, I would never pull a gun unless I’m defending against another gun.
4. Crack down on video games, internet games and forums, violent movies.
5. Ban high capacity mags.
6. Ban “assault weapons”.
7. Gun buy-back?

I read once if we banned all guns today it would be 100 years before we saw a decrease in gun deaths. I believe this. I have many guns that have no record, in fact, most of them. I have a 30-06 I inherited from my father who inherited it from his father. There is no record on this rifle. I will give to my son and he will give to his sun. I also have a dozer or so guns my step dad bought at garage sales or took on trade for boat deals over the last 60 years. Point is, there are millions of guns in the US and most people will never give them up. Also, you can 3D print your own gun now or buy a CNC mill and just make guns in your shop.

Starting to ramble. Anyway, what say you on how to address mass shootings?



2019-08-05 12:45 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings

Hardened security in every public place.....that's all.

The rest of your list will make zero difference, especially new laws.  In case anyone is wondering, it's already illegal to shoot people.

The 2nd Amendment is not going anywhere.....and neither is half a billion guns.

You can look at mental health, but nobody really has the stomach to take away personal liberties, hell, we're letting criminals out of prisons and jails at an unprecedented rate these days.  Now we're going to put people who haven't even yet committed a crime into them?  No we won't.

I'm not an overly passionate person about most things.....but I'll never be left without a way to defend myself and my family.  So forget about getting any guns I own.  I am one of millions and millions who feel exactly the same.....there will be a civil war before that happens.

2019-08-05 1:02 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
Originally posted by Left Brain

Hardened security in every public place.....that's all.


That is actually the best idea I have heard or read anywhere.
2019-08-06 8:13 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
I have bought and sold several items via FB Marketplace. FB prohibits selling guns via FB MP. Check out this ad I saw this morning. Guy is selling a gun cases with “metal inverts” (sic). Hmm, I wonder what caliper the insert is?



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2019-08-06 8:48 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by Left Brain

Hardened security in every public place.....that's all.


That is actually the best idea I have heard or read anywhere.



I was watching some of the analysis on the BBC. Yes, if you want unbiased news and opinions on the state of things in the US, watch the BBC :-)

They rightfully praised the speed and efficiency of the police. So LB's comment on hardened security makes a lot of sense. While armed guards in schools sound crazy to the rest of the world, maybe it makes sense given the choices you have made and have a rifht to make.

But they also described what would have been had the police not been there. 41 shots in 30 seconds ?

Is there no way of reducing the carnage these guys can do with assault weapons ?
Is there no way of restricting access to some types of weapons ?
Where do you guys draw the line on what type of weapons you should be able to own ? Should I be able to buy a bazooka ?

I am trying to understand your way of thinking.
2019-08-06 10:49 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings

If you want to own a bazooka that would be fine with me.  Why would I have any fear of you having a weapon like that if you wanted it to protect your family and your freedom?  The fact is, you can let 99.9999% of gun owners have a forking atomic bomb in their basement with no fear of it being used against you. 

Look, we have the 2nd amendment to our constitution.....I hunt and have guns for that purpose.....we also keep guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical govt, should the need arise, and I have some for that purpose.  In the current political climate I think it's more relevant than ever.  The fact that the people calling for socialist govt. are the same ones calling for banning guns is all I need to know.  That's not going to happen.



2019-08-06 11:04 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings

"There are more than 5 million assault weapons out on the streets of America, which is more than the U.S. military has. That is insane. We must ban the sale, distribution and transfer of assault weapons in the United States." - Bernie Sanders

Yes, Bernie, you moron, that's the whole purpose of our 2nd amendment. 



Edited by Left Brain 2019-08-06 11:07 AM
2019-08-06 11:12 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
I think bazookas are illegal unless you have a collector permit.

The call to ban “assault weapons” is a red herring. A .44 magnum is way more powerful/deadly and can be fired just as fast. It takes less than a second to drop the magazine and cram another one in the gun. For close combat like in a bar or school or mall I would rather have a pistol and a pocket full clips.

Point being, banning assault weapons would not stop mass shootings. Even in the case of the Las Vegas sniper it would not have mattered. Almost any deer rifle would have killed just as many. One shot with a 30-06 into a crowd would likely kill or injure more than one person.

What I find concerning is how the public and media freak out about these thing while ignoring the gun deaths in Chicago every week. Seems like that is something that can be ‘fixed’ much more easily.

2019-08-06 11:36 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings

They want the guns, Rog.....the red herring is that they care about the killings, or they WOULD do something about Chicago.



Edited by Left Brain 2019-08-06 11:38 AM
2019-08-06 12:47 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
2019-08-06 1:01 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings

The left will never go for it.......they want the guns,  not a solution.



2019-08-06 5:22 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
Originally posted by Left Brain

If you want to own a bazooka that would be fine with me.  Why would I have any fear of you having a weapon like that if you wanted it to protect your family and your freedom?  The fact is, you can let 99.9999% of gun owners have a forking atomic bomb in their basement with no fear of it being used against you. 

Look, we have the 2nd amendment to our constitution.....I hunt and have guns for that purpose.....we also keep guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical govt, should the need arise, and I have some for that purpose.  In the current political climate I think it's more relevant than ever.  The fact that the people calling for socialist govt. are the same ones calling for banning guns is all I need to know.  That's not going to happen.




The more I try to understand things the more I realize guns are the least of your problems right now

It is good to hear from your end of the spectrum. It's under represented in the media outside the US
2019-08-06 5:30 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
Originally posted by Rogillio

The call to ban “assault weapons” is a red herring.



I know noting about guns I guess I should. Up at the cottage, where I am probably closer to the neighbours, they all have them Just shotguns for hunting. My protection is a 2yo rottie that will lick you to death

That being said most of them have their permit because I signed for them 15 years ago there was a law you needed to be registered and someone from an "approved profession" had to sign the application form. I signed a bunch of them.

Edited by marcag 2019-08-06 5:36 PM
2019-08-06 5:46 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Left Brain

If you want to own a bazooka that would be fine with me.  Why would I have any fear of you having a weapon like that if you wanted it to protect your family and your freedom?  The fact is, you can let 99.9999% of gun owners have a forking atomic bomb in their basement with no fear of it being used against you. 

Look, we have the 2nd amendment to our constitution.....I hunt and have guns for that purpose.....we also keep guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical govt, should the need arise, and I have some for that purpose.  In the current political climate I think it's more relevant than ever.  The fact that the people calling for socialist govt. are the same ones calling for banning guns is all I need to know.  That's not going to happen.

The more I try to understand things the more I realize guns are the least of your problems right now It is good to hear from your end of the spectrum. It's under represented in the media outside the US

That's exactly right.....and I pray that we never need our guns for the reason we keep them.  I've spent the last 32 years wearing a gun to work every day, and I've hunted armed men who were criminals.  I've never shot anyone, and there have been plenty of times when I would have been "justified" if I wasn't absolutely resolved that I will only use it in self defense or defense of others as a last resort......I've got other tools.  I am the overwhelming majority of Police Officers.

We are a completely divided nation at this point, and it's hard to say where it's all heading, but our gun violence is a symptom, not the root of the problem.  If guns were the problem, then the 500,000 people in my state who go into the woods every year with high powered rifles would all be in danger.......none of us are.

2019-08-07 9:58 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
Originally posted by Left Brain
We are a completely divided nation at this point, and it's hard to say where it's all heading,


Who are the two candidates you would like to see at the head of each party ?
On the republican side, Is there a name you would prefer over Trump ?
Which of the dems is the best of the bad for you ?

While I don't see him as pres in your country, the smartest of the lot is Buttigieg. We'd take him. The rest you can keep.

Edited by marcag 2019-08-07 10:01 AM
2019-08-07 10:11 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings

I want to see Trump vs. Warren or Sanders.  Let's get this over with.  Either we are heading toward socialism or we're not, but let's get a clear referendum from the people of this country and not the media or the loudest voices.  I don't want to leave this for my children to fix. 



2019-08-07 1:36 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
I don’t think Dems will nominate a socialist. While the party elites are moving far left I don’t thing the average dem is on board and will vote for the only one not seen as a complete socialist, Biden. As a Republican I would love it is one of the socialist gets the nom but I think most Dems know that will result in a Trump landslide.

At this point, if I had to predict, I’d say the dem nominee will be someone who has yet to declare. I think if a moderate dem governor from a purple state would declare he/she would take the nod. It has to be someone bold who will not put their hand up for free healthcare for illegals.

I just think the divide between the left and right has grown so wide and so bitter that a centrist might just be the only way the Dems regain power. If Dems run a socialist, Trump wins in a landslide. Mark my word. OTOH, my prognostications are usually wrong..,but it never stops me from opining.
2019-08-07 1:51 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
Originally posted by Rogillio

I don’t think Dems will nominate a socialist. While the party elites are moving far left I don’t thing the average dem is on board and will vote for the only one not seen as a complete socialist, Biden. As a Republican I would love it is one of the socialist gets the nom but I think most Dems know that will result in a Trump landslide.

At this point, if I had to predict, I’d say the dem nominee will be someone who has yet to declare. I think if a moderate dem governor from a purple state would declare he/she would take the nod. It has to be someone bold who will not put their hand up for free healthcare for illegals.

I just think the divide between the left and right has grown so wide and so bitter that a centrist might just be the only way the Dems regain power. If Dems run a socialist, Trump wins in a landslide. Mark my word. OTOH, my prognostications are usually wrong..,but it never stops me from opining.


I think you are right, I keep hearing "we will chose someone electable". Bernie or Warren are not. Heck they wouldn't be electable in Canada. We have a party in Canada that would suit them, but that party gets a few ridings and will never hold a majority. Our conservatives are like your most moderate conservatives. Our liberals are like your most moderate dems. Then we have the New Diemocrat Party where Bernie, AOC and company would fit. But they will never get a majority.

I think it's sad that Biden is their best shot. Well beyond his "best before" date.

Maybe not this time around but there is a world wide phenomenon where non politicians are being elected. You saw it with Trump but it's happening more and more elsewhere in the world. Kim K for president :-)

It's funny you say they won't nominate a socialist. I thought you guys labelled all democrats socialists.

I'm guessing you guys think Canada is a socialist country ?
The UK ?
Germany ?
Japan ?
France (that one is easy). ?

Name a G20 non socialist country.




Edited by marcag 2019-08-07 1:55 PM
2019-08-07 2:10 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings

As far as I'm concerned all Democrats lean socialist.  And yes, I think Canada is as well.  I think it's fine.  I think a differing opinion is good. 

I think the Dems in this country have gotten to the point where if you don't agree with them 100% then you are a racist, or whatever other label they want to put on someone.  I am disgusted with ALL of them, from the media on down, since they lost the election.   And when I look at what decades of Democrat leadership has done to our big cities I want to puke. I hope they NEVER have any power in this country again.

2019-08-08 6:06 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
“Racist” has been so overused it no longer any potency. The new slam is “white nationalist” or “white supremacist”. Try to keep up. :-)

Of course fascist, misogynists, homophobe, islamaphobe and climate denier are all still good names to call for anyone that does not agree with you.
2019-08-08 8:31 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings

“All that I ask of the gun owners — and you’re absolutely right, 99.9 percent of gun owners would never in a million, billion years think of doing these horrible things — but at the moment that we are living in, I think we are all going to have to make some concessions to the reality of what’s going on...." - Bernie Sanders

Uh......feel the NO Bernie.   Those 99.9% have broken no laws, and they have a right to keep every gun they own that is granted in our Constitution.

If you need help, grab a dictionary and look up "shall not be infringed".



2019-08-08 1:35 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Mass shootings
That is like saying 80% of people who drink don’t drink and drive so we will ban alcohol for the 80% to save 100,000 alcohol related accidents per year. Wait, never mind, make 100x more sense to ban alcohol than to ban assault rifles.

If 10% of the country was packing these mass shooting would all by end.
2019-08-08 3:00 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Mass shootings

Here's what I hear....."you voted for Trump and we hate Trump and you are nothing but a racist and white supremacist, but hey, can you make some concessions for me?"

No, Bernie, you and your party, and all like you, can kiss my arse.  I'll never get over the way the liberals in this country have behaved since President Trump was elected.  And I'll agree to NOTHING that you want.

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