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2019-10-07 9:41 AM

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Subject: Syria
Trump is pulling the plug on Syria. Taking some criticism from people saying we are abandoning the Kurds. My thinking is the Muslims have been fighting among themselves for thousands of years and we need to get of of other country’s civil wars. I also support pulling out of Afghanistan. Yes, the country might devolve into chaos but after 18 years they cannot establish a stable government it is just not gonna happen. We could still support remotely with air strikes and drones but I don’t think more Americans need to die over there in a war that will never end.

Back to Syria. If Turkey attacks Syria from the rear, would Greece help?


2019-10-09 7:14 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Syria

Originally posted by Rogillio Trump is pulling the plug on Syria. Taking some criticism from people saying we are abandoning the Kurds. My thinking is the Muslims have been fighting among themselves for thousands of years and we need to get of of other country’s civil wars. I also support pulling out of Afghanistan. Yes, the country might devolve into chaos but after 18 years they cannot establish a stable government it is just not gonna happen. We could still support remotely with air strikes and drones but I don’t think more Americans need to die over there in a war that will never end. Back to Syria. If Turkey attacks Syria from the rear, would Greece help?

Another Obama promise fulfilled.  Oh wait, liberals love endless wars now, send them back... REEEEE

2019-10-09 5:06 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Syria
Pizz on Turkey. These are supposed to be our allies? NATO my arse....throw them out. I hope President Trump obliterates their economy.
2019-10-09 6:34 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Syria
Originally posted by Left Brain

Pizz on Turkey. These are supposed to be our allies? NATO my arse....throw them out. I hope President Trump obliterates their economy.


I am sure that your allies (or ex allies, or dead allies) will appreciate that
2019-10-09 7:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Syria

Oh....so we were in Syria putting our men and women in harms way so our "allies" wouldn't attack them......yeah, got it.  Maybe Canada can send some troops over there, yeah?  I mean, if it means so much to you, send your sons and daughters....you've got a handful in N. Iraq.....they're close....get them in the game.

Again, pizz on Turkey....one more reason to let NATO go. 

Watch what Erdogan does when Trump cuts off their economy......I like that better than flag draped coffins.



Edited by Left Brain 2019-10-09 7:23 PM
2019-10-09 7:21 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Syria
Originally posted by Left Brain

Oh....so we were in Syria putting our men and women in harms way so our "allies" wouldn't attack them......yeah, got it.  Maybe Canada can send some troops over there, yeah?  I mean, if it means so much to you, send your sons and daughters.

Again, pizz on Turkey....one more reason to let NATO go.




Maybe, Canada is more known for it's contribution to peace keeping missions.

BTW, I applaud President Trump's reluctance to start something on other fronts like Iran. But this one, it seems R & Ds agree he F'd up.



2019-10-09 7:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Syria

Not everyone agrees.  As I posted with an edit above, before you posted, watch what Erdogan does when Trump moves to wreck Turkey's economy.  I like that better than flag draped coffins.

But again.....all nations who don't agree can send their sons and daughters.......I'm not holding my breath.  Just a bunch of hot air from them.



Edited by Left Brain 2019-10-09 7:27 PM
2019-10-09 9:05 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Syria
I break with Trump on this one, we have abandoned an ally and not for the first time! this is a lesson for other allies as well we have again demonstrated that we are not reliable. I hate to say this but it is a fact the Kurds stood with us and now we have left them or at least this group of Kurds. WE APPOINTED OURSELVES AS THE WORLDS POLICE FORCE! And now we don't want to walk the beat. Trump is wrong on this one.
2019-10-09 9:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Syria
What if we are to the point that we can still Police, but now with our economy and not with our soldier's lives? Trump has stood down Iran with that strategy, and China is tetering. We are the only country capable of pulling that off. I understand the sentiment, but how about we wait before we pass judgement? Again, any other nation is free to send their kids to war.....I don't see any lining up.How long would you have us stay there? How many lives? For that matter, let the whining hypocrites in congress DECLARE war.....they're also perfectly willing to sit and criticize.....let them get some skin in the game. I give Trump credit for trying another way. Sorry for no paragraph break.....phone won't do it.

Edited by Left Brain 2019-10-09 10:05 PM
2019-10-09 10:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Syria
I guess you all forgot that President Trump didn't order withdrawal until AFTER Turkey said they would invade and attack NE Syria where many of our troops were protecting the Kurds. Allies my arse!!! Did they forget we were there? This is on Turkey.....you know, trusted NATO ally.

Edited by Left Brain 2019-10-09 10:25 PM
2019-10-10 12:02 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Syria
Sorry for short reply but getting late here.
Turkey under Erdogan is not an ally they may be still part of NATO but starting with their actions at the start of the Iraq invasion they demonstrated they were not on our side. Perhaps George Washington was right and we should avoid entangling alliances but the fact is we have not. The Libertarian in me says we never should have been in the Mid East, but we are. And when we decided to take sides we created friends and enemy's. When we leave our friends to the hands of their enemy's how can we expect to have future friends?


2019-10-10 8:58 AM
in reply to: CBarnes

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Subject: RE: Syria
Originally posted by CBarnes

Sorry for short reply but getting late here.
Turkey under Erdogan is not an ally they may be still part of NATO but starting with their actions at the start of the Iraq invasion they demonstrated they were not on our side. Perhaps George Washington was right and we should avoid entangling alliances but the fact is we have not. The Libertarian in me says we never should have been in the Mid East, but we are. And when we decided to take sides we created friends and enemy's. When we leave our friends to the hands of their enemy's how can we expect to have future friends?



But do you need friends and allies ?

I think a significant number of Trump's supporters don't think you do.
2019-10-10 9:29 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Syria
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by CBarnes

Sorry for short reply but getting late here.
Turkey under Erdogan is not an ally they may be still part of NATO but starting with their actions at the start of the Iraq invasion they demonstrated they were not on our side. Perhaps George Washington was right and we should avoid entangling alliances but the fact is we have not. The Libertarian in me says we never should have been in the Mid East, but we are. And when we decided to take sides we created friends and enemy's. When we leave our friends to the hands of their enemy's how can we expect to have future friends?



But do you need friends and allies ?

I think a significant number of Trump's supporters don't think you do.


I think we need friends and allies...just not willing to send my son and daughter to die in another country’s civil war. We can send money and arms (weapons, not the arms and legs of Americans) to help other countries.

It’s one thing to die fighting for your country...I just can’t image raising a child and then sending them to go fight for another country. If they need help we can send money and they can hire mercenaries to fight for them if they are ‘incapable’
2019-10-10 9:44 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Syria
Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by CBarnes

Sorry for short reply but getting late here.
Turkey under Erdogan is not an ally they may be still part of NATO but starting with their actions at the start of the Iraq invasion they demonstrated they were not on our side. Perhaps George Washington was right and we should avoid entangling alliances but the fact is we have not. The Libertarian in me says we never should have been in the Mid East, but we are. And when we decided to take sides we created friends and enemy's. When we leave our friends to the hands of their enemy's how can we expect to have future friends?



But do you need friends and allies ?

I think a significant number of Trump's supporters don't think you do.


I think we need friends and allies...just not willing to send my son and daughter to die in another country’s civil war. We can send money and arms (weapons, not the arms and legs of Americans) to help other countries.

It’s one thing to die fighting for your country...I just can’t image raising a child and then sending them to go fight for another country. If they need help we can send money and they can hire mercenaries to fight for them if they are ‘incapable’


Completely agree on your comments of sending your children into combat. Especially when these conflicts are for the wrong reasons.

I have ultimate respect for American soldiers that put their lives on the line to protect the things they think are right.

It sickens me that sometimes (not always) they are putting their lives on the line for polictical/personal gains. I said it previously, I applaud Trump for not letting his aides drag the US into combat with Iran.

Back to Syria.

How many US casualties have occurred in Syra in the last 12 months ?

Yes, the US has every right to bring their soldiers home. But do it in a way that thousands of innocent people are not caught in the cross fire.
2019-10-10 10:51 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Syria

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by CBarnes Sorry for short reply but getting late here. Turkey under Erdogan is not an ally they may be still part of NATO but starting with their actions at the start of the Iraq invasion they demonstrated they were not on our side. Perhaps George Washington was right and we should avoid entangling alliances but the fact is we have not. The Libertarian in me says we never should have been in the Mid East, but we are. And when we decided to take sides we created friends and enemy's. When we leave our friends to the hands of their enemy's how can we expect to have future friends?
But do you need friends and allies ? I think a significant number of Trump's supporters don't think you do.
I think we need friends and allies...just not willing to send my son and daughter to die in another country’s civil war. We can send money and arms (weapons, not the arms and legs of Americans) to help other countries. It’s one thing to die fighting for your country...I just can’t image raising a child and then sending them to go fight for another country. If they need help we can send money and they can hire mercenaries to fight for them if they are ‘incapable’
Completely agree on your comments of sending your children into combat. Especially when these conflicts are for the wrong reasons. I have ultimate respect for American soldiers that put their lives on the line to protect the things they think are right. It sickens me that sometimes (not always) they are putting their lives on the line for polictical/personal gains. I said it previously, I applaud Trump for not letting his aides drag the US into combat with Iran. Back to Syria. How many US casualties have occurred in Syra in the last 12 months ?
  So it's OK to put American soldiers at risk as long as none of them actually get killed?  And then when one is killed, there's the "false outrage" that we should have brought them home before the death occurred? 
Yes, the US has every right to bring their soldiers home. But do it in a way that thousands of innocent people are not caught in the cross fire.

Thousands of innocent people die every day.  Many here in the US.  Many in other parts of the world in other conflicts.  The US cannot protect every innocent person in the world, nor should we try.  

The Kurds are certainly in an unfortunate situation.  They're not welcome in Turkey, Syria, Iran, or Iraq...where do they go to be safe from their persecutors?  Are you proposing that US forces remain in the region for CENTURIES to protect them?  Are you proposing that Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran each "give up" a little bit of their land to establish a separate country for them (ala Israel) and that none of those countries won't want their land back at the first opportunity??  

2019-10-10 12:40 PM
in reply to: McFuzz

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Subject: RE: Syria
Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by CBarnes Sorry for short reply but getting late here. Turkey under Erdogan is not an ally they may be still part of NATO but starting with their actions at the start of the Iraq invasion they demonstrated they were not on our side. Perhaps George Washington was right and we should avoid entangling alliances but the fact is we have not. The Libertarian in me says we never should have been in the Mid East, but we are. And when we decided to take sides we created friends and enemy's. When we leave our friends to the hands of their enemy's how can we expect to have future friends?
But do you need friends and allies ? I think a significant number of Trump's supporters don't think you do.
I think we need friends and allies...just not willing to send my son and daughter to die in another country’s civil war. We can send money and arms (weapons, not the arms and legs of Americans) to help other countries. It’s one thing to die fighting for your country...I just can’t image raising a child and then sending them to go fight for another country. If they need help we can send money and they can hire mercenaries to fight for them if they are ‘incapable’
Completely agree on your comments of sending your children into combat. Especially when these conflicts are for the wrong reasons. I have ultimate respect for American soldiers that put their lives on the line to protect the things they think are right. It sickens me that sometimes (not always) they are putting their lives on the line for polictical/personal gains. I said it previously, I applaud Trump for not letting his aides drag the US into combat with Iran. Back to Syria. How many US casualties have occurred in Syra in the last 12 months ?
  So it's OK to put American soldiers at risk as long as none of them actually get killed?  And then when one is killed, there's the "false outrage" that we should have brought them home before the death occurred? 
Yes, the US has every right to bring their soldiers home. But do it in a way that thousands of innocent people are not caught in the cross fire.

Thousands of innocent people die every day.  Many here in the US.  Many in other parts of the world in other conflicts.  The US cannot protect every innocent person in the world, nor should we try.  

The Kurds are certainly in an unfortunate situation.  They're not welcome in Turkey, Syria, Iran, or Iraq...where do they go to be safe from their persecutors?  Are you proposing that US forces remain in the region for CENTURIES to protect them?  Are you proposing that Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran each "give up" a little bit of their land to establish a separate country for them (ala Israel) and that none of those countries won't want their land back at the first opportunity??  




Good questions...for the UN. The burden to fix the Middle East should fall on the UN not the US. What good is the UN anyway. All the nations of the world come together to talk. Maybe they could broker a deal between all stakeholders using diplomacy instead of wars.



2019-10-10 12:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Syria
Get out of Syria and get out of Afghanistan....bring our troops home. Our mission there is done, for now. Let them get back to fighting each other as they have for centuries. If their fight spills over here, again, then declare war and decimate them once and for all. No more "forever wars" for the U.S. If we go to war it should be an actual war....not a Police action. We can accomplish that without our blood.Again, if your nation, any nation, disagrees, then send your kids.....what's stopping you?

Edited by Left Brain 2019-10-10 1:01 PM
2019-10-10 1:22 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Hmmmmm....now the Left wants to support an endless war? When Bush was President I stood on protest lines protecting the anti-war protestors. When President Obama was elected they magically stopped protesting. Now the left is in favor of the war. What changed? GTFOH.
2019-10-10 9:03 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Syria

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Left Brain

Oh....so we were in Syria putting our men and women in harms way so our "allies" wouldn't attack them......yeah, got it.  Maybe Canada can send some troops over there, yeah?  I mean, if it means so much to you, send your sons and daughters.

Again, pizz on Turkey....one more reason to let NATO go.

Maybe, Canada is more known for it's contribution to peace keeping missions. BTW, I applaud President Trump's reluctance to start something on other fronts like Iran. But this one, it seems R & Ds Neocons agree he F'd up.

Fixed that for you. 

2019-10-10 9:12 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Syria

On a bigger scale, there's been a perpetual and in my opinion intentional mess going on in the gulf for most of our lives.  We have intentionally stopped producing and refining oil in the US to become dependent on the middle east.  We then inserted ourselves in virtually every conflict that's been going on for thousands of years to "fix" all the problems and make it more stable.  hah, that's funny. 

Obama campaigned on stopping the wars, but he escalated them all and brought us ISIS.  So, he's either horribly incompetent, or he intentionally kept them going.  I personally believe the latter.  We all know about what the Bushes did to start and perpetuate instability in the region. 

Anyways, now along comes Trump, who also campaigned on stopping these endless wars and he even went further and said we will become energy independent so it doesn't even matter what happens over there. 
Step one, he opened up drilling like a mad man and we quickly became energy independent to the point of exporting oil.  check
Step two, kick the crap out of ISIS with an actual intention on ending the war and not just lobbing missiles at houses to pretend like you're doing something.  check
step three, GTFO of the middle east and Allah sort it out.  check (in progress)

Remember, there is instability and atrocities all over the world.  If you think the middle east is bad, you should take a trip to Africa.  It's way worse there and guess how much anyone cares about that?  Yeah, we don't care because there's nothing there in the US interest such as oil.  Well, guess what, we don't care about the middle east oil any more now, so grab the popcorn. 

2019-10-11 1:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Syria
Originally posted by tuwood
Well, guess what, we don't care about the middle east oil any more now, so grab the popcorn. 




Better not tell Israel and Saudi Arabia :-)

If Trump manages to stop wars with economic pressure, hell, we should give him the Nobel peace prize.

So when does the economic annihilation start ?

PS : What is a Neocon ?

Edited by marcag 2019-10-11 1:12 PM


2019-10-11 1:38 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Syria

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by tuwood Well, guess what, we don't care about the middle east oil any more now, so grab the popcorn. 
Better not tell Israel and Saudi Arabia :-) If Trump manages to stop wars with economic pressure, hell, we should give him the Nobel peace prize. So when does the economic annihilation start ? PS : What is a Neocon ?

I don't have personally have a problem selling Israel weapons so they can protect themselves. (key word, themselves)

The wiki does a decent job of describing Neocon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

I'd sum it up as politicians who want to intervene in foreign affairs through the use of military.  Often using the spread of democracy as the justification for jacking things up.  The Iraq war would be a perfect example of Neocon behavior. 

 

2019-10-11 7:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Syria

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by tuwood Well, guess what, we don't care about the middle east oil any more now, so grab the popcorn. 
Better not tell Israel and Saudi Arabia :-) If Trump manages to stop wars with economic pressure, hell, we should give him the Nobel peace prize. So when does the economic annihilation start ? PS : What is a Neocon ?

Beats me, I'm not the President.....ask Iran. 

Now what, we're going to pretend the U.S. can't destroy the economies of most countries?  I mean, if that was true we wouldn't have heard the giant whine coming out of Canada when the President decided NAFTA wasn't the best way to go.  Y'all got on the new bus fast enough.



Edited by Left Brain 2019-10-11 8:04 PM
2019-10-12 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by tuwood Well, guess what, we don't care about the middle east oil any more now, so grab the popcorn. 
Better not tell Israel and Saudi Arabia :-) If Trump manages to stop wars with economic pressure, hell, we should give him the Nobel peace prize. So when does the economic annihilation start ? PS : What is a Neocon ?

Beats me, I'm not the President.....ask Iran. 

Now what, we're going to pretend the U.S. can't destroy the economies of most countries?  I mean, if that was true we wouldn't have heard the giant whine coming out of Canada when the President decided NAFTA wasn't the best way to go.  Y'all got on the new bus fast enough.




Nah, economic and military force of the US is not a question

But as Peter Parker would say "with great power there must come great responsibility". We're not going to argue what Spiderman would say, are we ?

Americans have always collectively had the morals and ethics to deal with this responsibility. Everywhere there are questionable individuals.

As for NAFTA 2.0 you may want to research what it really is. "Got on the bus". LOL. 2.0 is mostly an evolved NAFTA that has the name NAFTA crossed out and substituted with a new acronym. The name was edited with a Sharpie. But it's a beautiful name.





Edited by marcag 2019-10-12 10:41 AM
2019-10-14 9:33 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Nah, I don't want to hear about responsibility in foreign affairs by my country, yours, or anyone else's.....because that's a giant mass of BULLCHIT.

Each nation acts based on it's own self interest.....period.  The fact is we have no more interest in Syria, and losing interest in general in the Middle East.  Oil was the driving force, until we were attacked, and then it was to try and ensure that we weren't attacked again....that's all.

You and Spiderman can pontificate all you want about a Nation's responsibility.....but then you have to explain 1.5-2 million Cambodians killed by the Khmer Rouge from '75-'79, or 500,000 - 1 millions Rwandan's killed during a genocide there in 1994.  The world stood and watched.....your country, my country, EVERY country.....responsibility my arse.  The fact is, nobody cared because nobody had a monetary stake.

BTW - both of those atrocities happened under a Democrat President in the U.S. so spare me the gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands, by Liberals, over President Trump pulling our troops out of Syria.  That's just more disingenuous crap by the Left.

Again, if it bothers you so much, petition Trudeau to send some of your kids over there. 

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