Other Resources The Political Joe » Should Trump be Indicted? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2021-02-04 11:00 AM

User image

DC
Subject: Should Trump be Indicted?
Unlike many of my "conservative" friends (e.g., on Facebook), the conservative view on this forum, IMO, is well defended with reason... not conspiracy theories. This said, I'm curious....

Never mind impeachment, if the State of NY brings charges WITH evidence that Trump broke some law/s (recall Cohen's serving time for allegedly breaking the law at the direction of "#1"). If this happens, should he be charged or "excused" because he was president at the time of the alleged crime/s?

Really, I'm NOT a troll. I just like to share ideas. (I already think I know what I know.)

Full disclosure, IF he broke the law & there's evidence that he did, I do think he should be indicted. Look, I always thought it was B.S. that Clinton was removed from office. The lied under oath. He should have been removed.


2021-02-04 11:58 AM
in reply to: Porfirio

User image

Extreme Veteran
5719
5000500100100
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by Porfirio

Unlike many of my "conservative" friends (e.g., on Facebook), the conservative view on this forum, IMO, is well defended with reason... not conspiracy theories. This said, I'm curious....

Never mind impeachment, if the State of NY brings charges WITH evidence that Trump broke some law/s (recall Cohen's serving time for allegedly breaking the law at the direction of "#1"). If this happens, should he be charged or "excused" because he was president at the time of the alleged crime/s?

Really, I'm NOT a troll. I just like to share ideas. (I already think I know what I know.)

Full disclosure, IF he broke the law & there's evidence that he did, I do think he should be indicted. Look, I always thought it was B.S. that Clinton was removed from office. The lied under oath. He should have been removed.


The state of New York is going after him for crimes done before he was president. There is a long list from fraud to sexual assault.

He was not president at the time of the crimes.

2021-02-04 12:05 PM
in reply to: marcag

User image

DC
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?



The state of New York is going after him for crimes done before he was president. There is a long list from fraud to sexual assault.

He was not president at the time of the crimes.




I hear you. Either way, I guess I'm just wondering what the right thing to do is. The country is so divided, maybe we're better off letting him off the hook. The problem is that then, are we a nation of men & not laws? This is gonna really tricky.

2021-02-04 1:57 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Pro
15650
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?

The left doesn't care if we are a nation of laws or not.....look at their reaction to the events in Minnesota and Oregon, among others.  What they care about is never having to deal with Trump again, and they don't care how they get there....laws and reason be damned, as evidenced by the 2 impeachment attempts.  You would think they would have been so embarrassed after the first one that they'd never try again.....but here we go. LOL



Edited by Left Brain 2021-02-04 1:58 PM
2021-02-04 2:39 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

DC
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by Left Brain

The left doesn't care if we are a nation of laws or not.....look at their reaction to the events in Minnesota and Oregon, among others.  What they care about is never having to deal with Trump again, and they don't care how they get there....laws and reason be damned, as evidenced by the 2 impeachment attempts.  You would think they would have been so embarrassed after the first one that they'd never try again.....but here we go. LOL




So I'm reading Jared Diamond's "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fall or Succeed." He's the author of "Guns, Germs, & Steel," easily the most interesting book I've read post-college. Anyway, in "Collapse," he argues how among other human decisions, e.g., deforestation, politics can, has, & continues to take down great societies. I've said it before, I think allegiance to these vague terms, "the left/the right" etc... are really bad political "decisions" that only serve to hurt this nation.
2021-02-04 6:30 PM
in reply to: Porfirio

User image

Champion
7499
50002000100100100100252525
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?

No reason he *COULDN'T* be indicted but plenty of reasons a prosecutor should be very cautious going after that scalp.  

1)  The investigation and decision making process need to be bulletproof.  No way Trump pleads guilty and his legal team will make the prosecution earn every bit of their paycheck.  Cut even one corner, and it'll come out in court.  

2)  It will be difficult to find a jury pool given the media frenzy around the allegations. 

3)  The standard is much higher for criminal trials than it is for political impeachment.  While the media has already declared him guilty of everything imaginable, their standards are horrible especially for a despised subject.  The prosecutor will have a very difficult time establishing that Trump intended to violate the law and wasn't relying on the best advice of financial/legal counselors.  They'd basically have to have evidence where he instructed these counselors to knowingly break the law for him.  If what they've got is "find me tax avoidance strategies so I don't have to pay taxes" that won't cut it for a criminal court judge.  

Here's the way I'd suggest the prosecutor evaluate the case.  
Replace the name "Donald J. Trump" with "John Q. Public."  
If you'd take the case to trial for JQP, take it for DJT.  If you'd not waste the time going after JQP, leave DJT alone too.  

Sadly, I doubt the prosecutors will see or heed my advice and their judgment is clouded by thoughts of dancing around the media bonfire waving his scalp.  



2021-02-04 6:50 PM
in reply to: Porfirio

User image

Champion
10145
5000500010025
Alabama
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
The government is full of corruption and the powerful people never end up taking the fall. Hillary should be in jail or at a minimum stripped of her clearance. Hunter Biden should but never will see the inside of a jail. Comey, Strok, Brennan, Clapped, Rice, Yates et al should all be in jail. Whatever happened to all the powerful people tied to Epstein? There is just too much money and power in politics. Will Trump ever see the inside of a jail? Not a chance! He knows too much. Same with Hillary. Just imagine the tell-all books they could write in prison. Sending either one to jail would be a huge national security risk.

The impeachment is pure politics. Trump is never going to run again. This is about trying to destroy the Trump brand. But history tells us Trump will land on his feet...again.

The Dems best hope is to cram stuff through in the next 2 years but Manchin is a problem for democrats. I’d say he is one of the most powerful people in DC right now and he knows it.

So to the OP, will Trump ever be indicted? Maybe, but unlikely. Will he be convicted? Even more unlikely. Even if it looks like he is quilty - and blue collar crime are very seldom clear, you won’t find a jury to convict him. Just as OJ. Will he ever go to jail? Not a chance.

My guess is Trump will fade and the pending cases will quietly disappear.
2021-02-05 9:19 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image


1637
100050010025
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by Left Brain

The left doesn't care if we are a nation of laws or not.....look at their reaction to the events in Minnesota and Oregon, among others.  What they care about is never having to deal with Trump again, and they don't care how they get there....laws and reason be damned, as evidenced by the 2 impeachment attempts.  You would think they would have been so embarrassed after the first one that they'd never try again.....but here we go. LOL




Why do you never try to answer the question, but rather start all your posts with "the left this... the left that..."
2021-02-05 9:20 AM
in reply to: McFuzz

User image

DC
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by McFuzz

It will be difficult to find a jury pool given the media frenzy around the allegations.


Good point. In my mind, most people either love or hate him.
2021-02-05 9:23 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

User image

DC
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by Rogillio



So to the OP, will Trump ever be indicted? Maybe, but unlikely. Will he be convicted? Even more unlikely. Even if it looks like he is quilty - and blue collar crime are very seldom clear, you won’t find a jury to convict him. Just as OJ. Will he ever go to jail? Not a chance.

My guess is Trump will fade and the pending cases will quietly disappear.


Thanks for sharing. My thought goes to SHOULD he be indicted if the evidence is there. That's the question. Never mind "politics." If someone kills old ladies for fun, should his political opinion matter as far reaching justice?
2021-02-05 9:25 AM
in reply to: marysia83

User image

DC
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by marysia83

Originally posted by Left Brain

The left doesn't care if we are a nation of laws or not.....look at their reaction to the events in Minnesota and Oregon, among others.  What they care about is never having to deal with Trump again, and they don't care how they get there....laws and reason be damned, as evidenced by the 2 impeachment attempts.  You would think they would have been so embarrassed after the first one that they'd never try again.....but here we go. LOL




Why do you never try to answer the question, but rather start all your posts with "the left this... the left that..."


I didn't want to point this out, but yeah. A lot of times I find that supporters always go around the question. This of course, hold true when, say Biden's speaking. But here, we're talking about Trump, not Biden or any other "leftist."

Anyway, happy Friday everyone.


2021-02-05 9:29 AM
in reply to: 0

User image


1637
100050010025
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by Porfirio

Originally posted by marysia83

Originally posted by Left Brain

The left doesn't care if we are a nation of laws or not.....look at their reaction to the events in Minnesota and Oregon, among others.  What they care about is never having to deal with Trump again, and they don't care how they get there....laws and reason be damned, as evidenced by the 2 impeachment attempts.  You would think they would have been so embarrassed after the first one that they'd never try again.....but here we go. LOL




Why do you never try to answer the question, but rather start all your posts with "the left this... the left that..."


I didn't want to point this out, but yeah. A lot of times I find that supporters always go around the question. This of course, hold true when, say Biden's speaking. But here, we're talking about Trump, not Biden or any other "leftist."

Anyway, happy Friday everyone.


I'm sorry - I really did not mean to change the trajectory of your post. I find some discussions on this forum interesting and informative - especially for a person who is not native to this country. I like hearing different perspectives. But it's really tiring and annoying to keep hearing "left this and left that" instead of meaningful comments - especially from someone who you would expect has more to say than that.
That's all on that subject. Going back to reading some other comments

Edited by marysia83 2021-02-05 9:31 AM
2021-02-05 9:33 AM
in reply to: marysia83

User image

DC
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by marysia83

Originally posted by Porfirio

Originally posted by marysia83

Originally posted by Left Brain

The left doesn't care if we are a nation of laws or not.....look at their reaction to the events in Minnesota and Oregon, among others.  What they care about is never having to deal with Trump again, and they don't care how they get there....laws and reason be damned, as evidenced by the 2 impeachment attempts.  You would think they would have been so embarrassed after the first one that they'd never try again.....but here we go. LOL




Why do you never try to answer the question, but rather start all your posts with "the left this... the left that..."


I didn't want to point this out, but yeah. A lot of times I find that supporters always go around the question. This of course, hold true when, say Biden's speaking. But here, we're talking about Trump, not Biden or any other "leftist."

Anyway, happy Friday everyone.


I'm sorry - I really did not mean to change the trajectory of your post. I find some discussions on this forum interesting and informative - especially for a person who is not native to this country. I like hearing different perspectives. But it's really tiring and annoying to keep hearing "left this and left that" instead of meaningful comments - especially from someone who you would expect has more to say than that.
That's all on that subject. Going back to reading some other comments


Don't apologize! Sounds like we're on the same page... listening & learning from others.

One more thing on this topic, I did not vote for Trump, but accepted him as my president. At the end of the day, I reason I didn't vote again is b/c of his policies. I don't hate him or anyone. He just has a vision that differs from mine (& many others).
2021-02-05 11:45 AM
in reply to: Porfirio

User image

Champion
7499
50002000100100100100252525
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?

Originally posted by Porfirio
Originally posted by McFuzz It will be difficult to find a jury pool given the media frenzy around the allegations.
Good point. In my mind, most people either love or hate him.

it isn’t whether people love him or hate him.  It’s finding jurors “untainted “ by the media hype.  Almost nobody in NYC would qualify and I doubt prosecutors will be happy with a jury comprised of Amish folk.  

2021-02-05 11:53 AM
in reply to: McFuzz

User image

DC
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by Porfirio
Originally posted by McFuzz It will be difficult to find a jury pool given the media frenzy around the allegations.
Good point. In my mind, most people either love or hate him.

it isn’t whether people love him or hate him.  It’s finding jurors “untainted “ by the media hype.  Almost nobody in NYC would qualify and I doubt prosecutors will be happy with a jury comprised of Amish folk.  




At the same time, what potential juror is not biased while cognizant of it or not. Reminds me of Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan... altruism can't be real b/c it's not built into our DNA. This can get even more complicated... so still wondering (for myself) whether indicting Trump is a good/bad, right/wrong step. Ugh, never mind Hillary's "emails." That's a different discussion in its own.
2021-02-05 12:38 PM
in reply to: marysia83

User image

Pro
15650
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?

Originally posted by marysia83
Originally posted by Left Brain

The left doesn't care if we are a nation of laws or not.....look at their reaction to the events in Minnesota and Oregon, among others.  What they care about is never having to deal with Trump again, and they don't care how they get there....laws and reason be damned, as evidenced by the 2 impeachment attempts.  You would think they would have been so embarrassed after the first one that they'd never try again.....but here we go. LOL

Why do you never try to answer the question, but rather start all your posts with "the left this... the left that..."

 

I wasn't answering the original question, I was answering a question put up in the follow-up post.  Surely you can keep up with that, right?  They say reading is fundamental, maybe that's right.

The left always does this.   



2021-02-05 1:37 PM
in reply to: Porfirio

User image

Champion
10145
5000500010025
Alabama
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by Porfirio

Originally posted by Rogillio



So to the OP, will Trump ever be indicted? Maybe, but unlikely. Will he be convicted? Even more unlikely. Even if it looks like he is quilty - and blue collar crime are very seldom clear, you won’t find a jury to convict him. Just as OJ. Will he ever go to jail? Not a chance.

My guess is Trump will fade and the pending cases will quietly disappear.


Thanks for sharing. My thought goes to SHOULD he be indicted if the evidence is there. That's the question. Never mind "politics." If someone kills old ladies for fun, should his political opinion matter as far reaching justice?


Let’s not equate first degree murder with fudging tax returns. I have no doubt millions of Americans fudge their taxes. I read once that Bill Clinton valued his used underwear at $9/pair. I’ve no doubt if you scoured any billionaire’s taxes for the last 10 years you would find errors. Proving them intentional is a tough row to hoe. An indictment will be viewed as a political vendetta by most. My guess is any irregularities would be felt with with a fine not a criminal indictment.

Your caveat “if the evidence is there” assumes an objective, unbiased look at the data. Not likely to get this is a politically charge case. Again, there was irrefutable evidence Hillary broke the law by sending top secret email. But the decision, right or wrong, was made to not indict her.
2021-02-05 1:46 PM
in reply to: marysia83

User image

Champion
10145
5000500010025
Alabama
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by marysia83

Originally posted by Left Brain

The left doesn't care if we are a nation of laws or not.....look at their reaction to the events in Minnesota and Oregon, among others.  What they care about is never having to deal with Trump again, and they don't care how they get there....laws and reason be damned, as evidenced by the 2 impeachment attempts.  You would think they would have been so embarrassed after the first one that they'd never try again.....but here we go. LOL




Why do you never try to answer the question, but rather start all your posts with "the left this... the left that..."


We are supposed to be a nation of laws and it is completely appropriate to cite how others were treated. It’s called precedent...or, in many cases double standards.

On impeachment, Dems are heading Trump a gift IMO. Once again he will hold up a newspaper with the headline “Trump Acquitted” as evidence of exoneration and emerge stronger.

Oh no! I went off topic....

2021-07-01 3:52 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

User image

Champion
10145
5000500010025
Alabama
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Case closed. No Trump indictment. CFO will be charged with not reporting perks as income or some such ‘crime’ but a very grey area of the law and CFO will likely walk.

2021-07-01 8:42 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

User image

Expert
3750
200010005001001002525
Middle River, Maryland
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?

I don't think this was ever about indicting Trump directly.  It's about cutting off his financial knees.

From the Forbes article:

“I can’t underscore enough how devastating an indictment would be to the Trump Org,” tweeted Daniel Goldman, a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York who prosecuted mafia families and insider traders. “Every lender would call their loans and no way Trump Org can pay them all, likely leading to bankruptcy.”

“That would be almost a death blow to the Trump Organization,” Mr. Goldman told MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace. “No bank will ever do business with an indicted company.”

No doubt the former Grifter-in-Chief will continue to milk his supporters out of money, but that well will dry up one day.

2021-07-01 11:14 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

User image

Champion
10145
5000500010025
Alabama
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

I don't think this was ever about indicting Trump directly.  It's about cutting off his financial knees.

From the Forbes article:

“I can’t underscore enough how devastating an indictment would be to the Trump Org,” tweeted Daniel Goldman, a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York who prosecuted mafia families and insider traders. “Every lender would call their loans and no way Trump Org can pay them all, likely leading to bankruptcy.”

“That would be almost a death blow to the Trump Organization,” Mr. Goldman told MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace. “No bank will ever do business with an indicted company.”

No doubt the former Grifter-in-Chief will continue to milk his supporters out of money, but that well will dry up one day.




Keep dreaming. The indictment is about undeclared “income” in the form of perks. If a company provides a car for you to use or gives your kids free admission that is considered income and must be reported. The SDNY got Trumps taxes and millions of documents and could not make a case. Kinda like Mueller.

I’m waiting for someone to piece together a montage of all the talking heads who just “knew” the SDNY was going to send Trump to jail! LOL!!!




2021-07-01 7:11 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

User image

Champion
7499
50002000100100100100252525
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

I don't think this was ever about indicting Trump directly.  It's about cutting off his financial knees.

From the Forbes article:

“I can’t underscore enough how devastating an indictment would be to the Trump Org,” tweeted Daniel Goldman, a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York who prosecuted mafia families and insider traders. “Every lender would call their loans and no way Trump Org can pay them all, likely leading to bankruptcy.”

“That would be almost a death blow to the Trump Organization,” Mr. Goldman told MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace. “No bank will ever do business with an indicted company.”

No doubt the former Grifter-in-Chief will continue to milk his supporters out of money, but that well will dry up one day.

Every lender wants repaid entirely.  It isn’t in their interest to drive the borrower into bankruptcy where they’ll wait years to get $0.30 on the dollar. 

What’s the old adage?  If you owe the bank $100, you’ve got a problem.  If you owe the bank $1,000,000, the bank has a problem...

 

2021-07-02 6:08 AM
in reply to: McFuzz

User image

Champion
10145
5000500010025
Alabama
Subject: RE: Should Trump be Indicted?
Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

I don't think this was ever about indicting Trump directly.  It's about cutting off his financial knees.

From the Forbes article:

“I can’t underscore enough how devastating an indictment would be to the Trump Org,” tweeted Daniel Goldman, a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York who prosecuted mafia families and insider traders. “Every lender would call their loans and no way Trump Org can pay them all, likely leading to bankruptcy.”

“That would be almost a death blow to the Trump Organization,” Mr. Goldman told MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace. “No bank will ever do business with an indicted company.”

No doubt the former Grifter-in-Chief will continue to milk his supporters out of money, but that well will dry up one day.

Every lender wants repaid entirely.  It isn’t in their interest to drive the borrower into bankruptcy where they’ll wait years to get $0.30 on the dollar. 

What’s the old adage?  If you owe the bank $100, you’ve got a problem.  If you owe the bank $1,000,000, the bank has a problem...

 




Excellent point.

Of course, being charged means nothing without a conviction. And from what I’ve read the NY tax code is “murky” when it comes to taxing perks. The Trump organization will argue the case is political and the DA ran on a promise to “get Trump”. Three years of investigation and the best they got is undeclared perks? No ‘inflating assets’ - and remember the prosecutors have Trump’s taxes. No secret payments to Cohen to silence Stormy.




New Thread
Other Resources The Political Joe » Should Trump be Indicted? Rss Feed  
RELATED POSTS

The Trump Cult

Started by Rogillio
Views: 430 Posts: 3

2021-01-29 5:53 AM feh

Trump has COVID

Started by Synon
Views: 278 Posts: 4

2020-10-03 10:55 PM Synon

Serious Q for Trump Supporters

Started by Ridgelake
Views: 635 Posts: 25

2020-09-22 1:21 PM Left Brain

Trump gets on board

Started by marcag
Views: 218 Posts: 2

2020-07-14 6:42 AM Rogillio

Media panic as Trump approval soars

Started by Rogillio
Views: 471 Posts: 21

2020-04-01 3:54 PM Rogillio