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2023-01-14 3:13 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

I do not have a lot of experience with bike clothing.  I rode in my Speedo Jammer shorts and Under Armour Compression shirt my first two years on the bike.  Then I got a pair of bike shorts that say "The Hub of Aspen" on them.  I assume that is a local Bike Shop in Aspen, Co but I don't know what brand the shorts are.  They don't have any markings on them to show that.  I finally got a real cycling outfit last year.  I went ahead and got the Kiwami Aubisque Bib Cycling Shorts and Kiwami Mente Cycling Jersey.  Everyone said that once you go to the Bib bike shorts you will never go back to the regular bike shorts, but I was just as happy in the speedo jammer swim trunks so what do I know?  I think I like riding in my one piece tri suit better than bib shorts and a top.  The elastic waistline of the cycling top always seems to ride up and cause the material to much up in the middle.   Hmm?  

Personally, I hate bib shorts. Men say they fit better and are better at keeping the chamois in place but I don't find that my chamois movies at all with regular shorts. I don't see the point of bottoms that require that I take off my top to go to the bathroom. That's just me though.  That being said, I do find that shorts with a wide waistband are a requirement.  



2023-01-14 3:14 PM
in reply to: JBacarella

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by JBacarella
Originally posted by abake
Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by abake Manatees, can we talk about custom cycling clothing for teams, clubs, etc.? I'd love to get your opinion on brands you like and brands that you do not like. Background - - Our local cycling club has been using Pactimo for several years for custom clothing. It's time for a change. Lack of customer support, inconsistent quality of materials and more importantly, sizing that varies wildly. I've been burned too many times by Pactimo and have been given the green light to look into other brands. So far I've contacted: Voler Borah Primal Of these, Primal has been the most responsive and seems eager to get our club's business. The rep is sending me an assortment of sample clothing for our members to try on. I do have a couple of Primal jerseys and like the way they fit, so I'm already favorably impressed with them. Voler and Borah seem interested but won't send sample clothing. This is probably a deal breaker. A club member sent me a link to a company I've not heard of: Saffetti Smart Wear. She has a couple of jerseys and likes them. I can't find a lot of reviews on this company. Anyone heard of it? So...fire away Manatees! Do you have a favorite brand of custom clothing? Do you have a brand you would stay away from? Thanks for any input!!!!

My bike club also uses Pactimo and has also been looking at other vendors. Major fit issues with the recent orders.

Have you tried Louis Garneau https://custom.garneau.com/?  I'm not on the committee for this but I know they sent a fit kit.

Kevin's bike college bike club just did a Primal order and he likes it a lot. I have a several primal jerseys and I like them a lot.

Hincapie does a nice job but they are pretty high end and I expect the pricing could be an issue.

I've been using Zoot cycling shorts for a bit and really like them. I know they do custom team kits, but I have no experience with that, so can't speak to price or responsiveness. I have a couple of Primal jersey that I like, so imagine their kits are pretty good too.

I'll take a look at Zoot -- have a friend who wears that brand and really liks it
I've worn Zoot for years, They are reasonably comfortable and hold up well. I still have my first pair of Zoot tri shorts. I wear them on the trainer and the are still in good condition. I think I've had them for 15 years.

FIFTEEN YEARS?!

2023-01-15 2:23 AM
in reply to: jmkizer


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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!
I'm in again!!!! I'll post my intro here in a couple days. I have a lot going on right now.
2023-01-15 4:42 AM
in reply to: JBacarella

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!
Originally posted by JBacarella

Originally posted by abake

Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by abake Manatees, can we talk about custom cycling clothing for teams, clubs, etc.? I'd love to get your opinion on brands you like and brands that you do not like. Background - - Our local cycling club has been using Pactimo for several years for custom clothing. It's time for a change. Lack of customer support, inconsistent quality of materials and more importantly, sizing that varies wildly. I've been burned too many times by Pactimo and have been given the green light to look into other brands. So far I've contacted: Voler Borah Primal Of these, Primal has been the most responsive and seems eager to get our club's business. The rep is sending me an assortment of sample clothing for our members to try on. I do have a couple of Primal jerseys and like the way they fit, so I'm already favorably impressed with them. Voler and Borah seem interested but won't send sample clothing. This is probably a deal breaker. A club member sent me a link to a company I've not heard of: Saffetti Smart Wear. She has a couple of jerseys and likes them. I can't find a lot of reviews on this company. Anyone heard of it? So...fire away Manatees! Do you have a favorite brand of custom clothing? Do you have a brand you would stay away from? Thanks for any input!!!!

My bike club also uses Pactimo and has also been looking at other vendors. Major fit issues with the recent orders.

Have you tried Louis Garneau https://custom.garneau.com/?  I'm not on the committee for this but I know they sent a fit kit.

Kevin's bike college bike club just did a Primal order and he likes it a lot. I have a several primal jerseys and I like them a lot.

Hincapie does a nice job but they are pretty high end and I expect the pricing could be an issue.

I've been using Zoot cycling shorts for a bit and really like them. I know they do custom team kits, but I have no experience with that, so can't speak to price or responsiveness. I have a couple of Primal jersey that I like, so imagine their kits are pretty good too.



I'll take a look at Zoot -- have a friend who wears that brand and really liks it

I've worn Zoot for years, They are reasonably comfortable and hold up well. I still have my first pair of Zoot tri shorts. I wear them on the trainer and the are still in good condition. I think I've had them for 15 years.

15 years and still holding is impressive for a pair of tri shorts
2023-01-15 9:19 AM
in reply to: alaskatri

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by alaskatri I'm in again!!!! I'll post my intro here in a couple days. I have a lot going on right now.

Great news!

2023-01-15 1:47 PM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!
Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by JBacarella
Originally posted by abake
Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by abake Manatees, can we talk about custom cycling clothing for teams, clubs, etc.? I'd love to get your opinion on brands you like and brands that you do not like. Background - - Our local cycling club has been using Pactimo for several years for custom clothing. It's time for a change. Lack of customer support, inconsistent quality of materials and more importantly, sizing that varies wildly. I've been burned too many times by Pactimo and have been given the green light to look into other brands. So far I've contacted: Voler Borah Primal Of these, Primal has been the most responsive and seems eager to get our club's business. The rep is sending me an assortment of sample clothing for our members to try on. I do have a couple of Primal jerseys and like the way they fit, so I'm already favorably impressed with them. Voler and Borah seem interested but won't send sample clothing. This is probably a deal breaker. A club member sent me a link to a company I've not heard of: Saffetti Smart Wear. She has a couple of jerseys and likes them. I can't find a lot of reviews on this company. Anyone heard of it? So...fire away Manatees! Do you have a favorite brand of custom clothing? Do you have a brand you would stay away from? Thanks for any input!!!!

My bike club also uses Pactimo and has also been looking at other vendors. Major fit issues with the recent orders.

Have you tried Louis Garneau https://custom.garneau.com/?  I'm not on the committee for this but I know they sent a fit kit.

Kevin's bike college bike club just did a Primal order and he likes it a lot. I have a several primal jerseys and I like them a lot.

Hincapie does a nice job but they are pretty high end and I expect the pricing could be an issue.

I've been using Zoot cycling shorts for a bit and really like them. I know they do custom team kits, but I have no experience with that, so can't speak to price or responsiveness. I have a couple of Primal jersey that I like, so imagine their kits are pretty good too.

I'll take a look at Zoot -- have a friend who wears that brand and really liks it
I've worn Zoot for years, They are reasonably comfortable and hold up well. I still have my first pair of Zoot tri shorts. I wear them on the trainer and the are still in good condition. I think I've had them for 15 years.

FIFTEEN YEARS?!



The Graphics have been worn out for a long time. I wore them my first couple of races and then just for training. I do wash them, in case that is a question.

I've never worn bib shorts. but I have never had an issue with the chamiois with Zoot or Castelli. The only shorts I ever wore and hated were Pearl Izumi. They were like wearing a diaper.


2023-01-16 6:20 AM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!
Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by mtnbikerchk
Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by jmkizer

Yikes! It's almost like I don't work in IT. I finally found some of Randee's results!  I have been told that one should treat this like an ultramarathon and that many people have a goal of finish and take all the pictures!

It seems that yesterday's 5k was not time?  Today's 10k results are posted and the half marathon and marathon will also be at the following URL: https://track.rtrt.me/e/WDW-WDW-2023#/tracker/RLUWV6KP.

You can sign up to receive email results at the URL above ^^^

Randee has finished the half marathon! Wooo hooo!!

So far, she has completed

  • 5k on Thursday
  • 10k on Friday
  • Half marathon on Saturday

Tomorrow she has the marathon. 

Doooo eeettttt!!!!!

Randee has completed the first half of the marathon! GOOO!!!! RANDEE!!!!!

Randee has past the mile 20 checkpoint. Way to DOOO EEETTT!!!

Congratulations to Randee! Our very own Dopey Challenge Finisher! 

Way to DOOO EEETTT!!!

You're so awesome! Thanks for following. I need to do my intro first I guess - here goes: NAME: Randee or Mtnbikerchk or MBC OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA: Facebook mostly FB but I do have Strava and the others. STORY: I'm 49years old (and clinging to that for 2 more months). I was mostly a couch potato with some skiing and softball mixed in as a kid. I started mountain biking after college but didn't start running until around age 38 I think? Then I got hurt and started swimming and decided to try a local off road tri. And it snowballed quickly. Today I've done 5 fulls, a bunch of halves and yes, as of this past week, the dopey challenge. FAMILY STATUS: I live in CT with my husband and our almost 3 year old mutt. We recently lost our 13 year old greyhound and 18 and 19 year old cats. CURRENT TRAINING: Currently recovering for 2 weeks. I train with Mike Plumb from CA. THIS YEAR'S RACES/EVENTS: IMCDA in June - then lost of mountain biking!. GOALS/OBJECTIVES/DESIRES: I feel like I've "known" these guys for years. It's great to have regular friends to connect with and bounce ideas off of. WHAT MAKES YOU A GOOD MANATEE: Nothing makes me a good manatee. I'm terrible sometimes when I don't check in as often as I should. But Janyne keeps tabs on me and anyone can always reach me on FB or Strava. Dopey recap - everyone says the hardest part is getting up at 2am every day. Actually that wasn't terrible. The worst part for me was being in FL on vacation for a week and not being able to do anything other than run in the am and rest in the pm. I don't really want to do that again. The HIGHLIGHT of the runs was riding Expedition Everest at mile 16 of the marathon That combined with my FOUR pee stops only cost me 11 minutes!! And the sheer number of medals and shirts I have is ridiculous!

Riding a roller coaster during a marathon is AWESOME!




Randee...so much respect for you! I did the Goofy Challenge back in the day and I thought two back to back days were hard but 4! So proud of you! You have quite the endurance resume!
2023-01-16 2:41 PM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by jmkizer

Personally, I hate bib shorts. Men say they fit better and are better at keeping the chamois in place but I don't find that my chamois movies at all with regular shorts. I don't see the point of bottoms that require that I take off my top to go to the bathroom. That's just me though.  That being said, I do find that shorts with a wide waistband are a requirement.  

Ya...getting in and out is defiantly an issue with the bibs. The Speedo jammer shorts don't even have a chamois and they work just fine. 

2023-01-16 2:50 PM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by jmkizer

I've worn Zoot for years, They are reasonably comfortable and hold up well. I still have my first pair of Zoot tri shorts. I wear them on the trainer and the are still in good condition. I think I've had them for 15 years.

FIFTEEN YEARS?!

I got my Speed Jammer Shorts in 2008.  I only wore them for one sprint triathlon until I got into triathlons for real in 2015.  They are ready to be replaced though.  They colors are all faded out (on the outside, but not they are still bright on the interior).  The elastic has also seen better days.  My motto is, "Use it up. Wear it out. Make it do or do without."  

2023-01-16 6:21 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!
Not really related to the biking discussion, but I have a pair of running shorts that I've worn since college (33 years ago)! Probably wear them once a week in the summer. (Admittedly, Oregonian summer is quite short.) They still fit, and the elastic is still going strong. They are from a locally owned company called Sporthill (available nationally online) and the founder also ran for U.O. I still run in a lot of their clothes (since locals benefit from their awesome tent sales at the big national meets here) but the more recent ones are not quite up to that lofty standard of durability (I think the quality's gone down a bit since production moved overseas). Their stuff is really well-designed, though, for running and other outdoor activities like hiking and XC skiing.
2023-01-17 9:02 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

So...I have been busy with the Winter Cycling Group I am leading for my Ambassador Tri Team.  I thought I had the gist of CP (Critical Power) figured out but have been brushing up on things to make sure that I can teach the group how it all works, evaluate their power tests, set up their training zones, and assign them workouts tailored to their strengths and weaknesses.  The more I study the more clueless I realize I am.  That is part of why I volunteered though.  Pushing yourself out of your comfort zone is sometimes the quickest way to learn. 

So...he is my discovery for the week.  Training Platforms like TrainerRoads, Zwift, Rouvey, Wahoo Fitness, etc. all use FTP.  They test with 5 minute tests, 20 minute tests, ramp tests, the Rubber Glove test, the Full Monty test, etc.  I have not done the last two but know that most of these make an assumption about your level of endurance to calculate your 1-hour power.  If you are average then the test is a good approximation. If you have better endurance than average or if you burn out faster than average the test is not the best for you.  The CP tests does all out intervals of different duration to calculate not only your 1-hour power but also your aerobic capacity (W') which is a measurement of how much work you can do above your Critical Power.    Two people might have the same FTP of 230W.  One however may have a VO2max (30sec to 2minute all out power) of 400W and the other might have a VO2max of 310W.   So,  the one with 400W will be a better sprinter because of the capacity to do more work above Critical power.  The other will be a better at endurance races because of the ability to hold a higher percentage of their VO2max for period over an hour (i.e. 2 hrs, 4 hrs, 6 hrs.).  Further, one will need to focus on sprints to increasing the amount of work he/she can do above CP to improve his/her FTP and the other will need to work on endurance to improving the threshold percent they can to improve their FTP.  If you are average you get the right training through the on line platforms but if you endurance is better than average of if the work you can do above your threshold is better than average you may not be getting the training you need from the pre-written training plans and may progress faster with customized training.  This was mind blowing to me.  I never really understood how training plans were customized to produce faster results and bigger gains than following pre-written plans.



2023-01-17 10:47 AM
in reply to: canadarn2001

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!
Originally posted by canadarn2001

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by mtnbikerchk
Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by jmkizer

Yikes! It's almost like I don't work in IT. I finally found some of Randee's results!  I have been told that one should treat this like an ultramarathon and that many people have a goal of finish and take all the pictures!

It seems that yesterday's 5k was not time?  Today's 10k results are posted and the half marathon and marathon will also be at the following URL: https://track.rtrt.me/e/WDW-WDW-2023#/tracker/RLUWV6KP.

You can sign up to receive email results at the URL above ^^^

Randee has finished the half marathon! Wooo hooo!!

So far, she has completed

  • 5k on Thursday
  • 10k on Friday
  • Half marathon on Saturday

Tomorrow she has the marathon. 

Doooo eeettttt!!!!!

Randee has completed the first half of the marathon! GOOO!!!! RANDEE!!!!!

Randee has past the mile 20 checkpoint. Way to DOOO EEETTT!!!

Congratulations to Randee! Our very own Dopey Challenge Finisher! 

Way to DOOO EEETTT!!!

You're so awesome! Thanks for following. I need to do my intro first I guess - here goes: NAME: Randee or Mtnbikerchk or MBC OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA: Facebook mostly FB but I do have Strava and the others. STORY: I'm 49years old (and clinging to that for 2 more months). I was mostly a couch potato with some skiing and softball mixed in as a kid. I started mountain biking after college but didn't start running until around age 38 I think? Then I got hurt and started swimming and decided to try a local off road tri. And it snowballed quickly. Today I've done 5 fulls, a bunch of halves and yes, as of this past week, the dopey challenge. FAMILY STATUS: I live in CT with my husband and our almost 3 year old mutt. We recently lost our 13 year old greyhound and 18 and 19 year old cats. CURRENT TRAINING: Currently recovering for 2 weeks. I train with Mike Plumb from CA. THIS YEAR'S RACES/EVENTS: IMCDA in June - then lost of mountain biking!. GOALS/OBJECTIVES/DESIRES: I feel like I've "known" these guys for years. It's great to have regular friends to connect with and bounce ideas off of. WHAT MAKES YOU A GOOD MANATEE: Nothing makes me a good manatee. I'm terrible sometimes when I don't check in as often as I should. But Janyne keeps tabs on me and anyone can always reach me on FB or Strava. Dopey recap - everyone says the hardest part is getting up at 2am every day. Actually that wasn't terrible. The worst part for me was being in FL on vacation for a week and not being able to do anything other than run in the am and rest in the pm. I don't really want to do that again. The HIGHLIGHT of the runs was riding Expedition Everest at mile 16 of the marathon That combined with my FOUR pee stops only cost me 11 minutes!! And the sheer number of medals and shirts I have is ridiculous!

Riding a roller coaster during a marathon is AWESOME!




Randee...so much respect for you! I did the Goofy Challenge back in the day and I thought two back to back days were hard but 4! So proud of you! You have quite the endurance resume!



aww thanks! It's definitely a testament to how much we can tolerate both physically and mentally - but it makes me laugh when people mistake it for "oh you must be fast!"

To finish is to win!!
2023-01-18 4:10 AM
in reply to: JBacarella

Extreme Veteran
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Wilmington, NC
Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!
Originally posted by JBacarella

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by JBacarella
Originally posted by abake
Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by abake Manatees, can we talk about custom cycling clothing for teams, clubs, etc.? I'd love to get your opinion on brands you like and brands that you do not like. Background - - Our local cycling club has been using Pactimo for several years for custom clothing. It's time for a change. Lack of customer support, inconsistent quality of materials and more importantly, sizing that varies wildly. I've been burned too many times by Pactimo and have been given the green light to look into other brands. So far I've contacted: Voler Borah Primal Of these, Primal has been the most responsive and seems eager to get our club's business. The rep is sending me an assortment of sample clothing for our members to try on. I do have a couple of Primal jerseys and like the way they fit, so I'm already favorably impressed with them. Voler and Borah seem interested but won't send sample clothing. This is probably a deal breaker. A club member sent me a link to a company I've not heard of: Saffetti Smart Wear. She has a couple of jerseys and likes them. I can't find a lot of reviews on this company. Anyone heard of it? So...fire away Manatees! Do you have a favorite brand of custom clothing? Do you have a brand you would stay away from? Thanks for any input!!!!

My bike club also uses Pactimo and has also been looking at other vendors. Major fit issues with the recent orders.

Have you tried Louis Garneau https://custom.garneau.com/?  I'm not on the committee for this but I know they sent a fit kit.

Kevin's bike college bike club just did a Primal order and he likes it a lot. I have a several primal jerseys and I like them a lot.

Hincapie does a nice job but they are pretty high end and I expect the pricing could be an issue.

I've been using Zoot cycling shorts for a bit and really like them. I know they do custom team kits, but I have no experience with that, so can't speak to price or responsiveness. I have a couple of Primal jersey that I like, so imagine their kits are pretty good too.

I'll take a look at Zoot -- have a friend who wears that brand and really liks it
I've worn Zoot for years, They are reasonably comfortable and hold up well. I still have my first pair of Zoot tri shorts. I wear them on the trainer and the are still in good condition. I think I've had them for 15 years.

FIFTEEN YEARS?!



The Graphics have been worn out for a long time. I wore them my first couple of races and then just for training. I do wash them, in case that is a question.

I've never worn bib shorts. but I have never had an issue with the chamiois with Zoot or Castelli. The only shorts I ever wore and hated were Pearl Izumi. They were like wearing a diaper.


I have bike shorts that I have a had for years as well. I think because I took so many years OFF from biking in the past decade is why they have lasted!

Our Tri Club is ordering kits from Varlo (?) this year. They are pricey but I guess they are suppose to be really nice.
2023-01-18 4:31 AM
in reply to: canadarn2001

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!
Originally posted by canadarn2001

Originally posted by JBacarella

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by JBacarella
Originally posted by abake
Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by abake Manatees, can we talk about custom cycling clothing for teams, clubs, etc.? I'd love to get your opinion on brands you like and brands that you do not like. Background - - Our local cycling club has been using Pactimo for several years for custom clothing. It's time for a change. Lack of customer support, inconsistent quality of materials and more importantly, sizing that varies wildly. I've been burned too many times by Pactimo and have been given the green light to look into other brands. So far I've contacted: Voler Borah Primal Of these, Primal has been the most responsive and seems eager to get our club's business. The rep is sending me an assortment of sample clothing for our members to try on. I do have a couple of Primal jerseys and like the way they fit, so I'm already favorably impressed with them. Voler and Borah seem interested but won't send sample clothing. This is probably a deal breaker. A club member sent me a link to a company I've not heard of: Saffetti Smart Wear. She has a couple of jerseys and likes them. I can't find a lot of reviews on this company. Anyone heard of it? So...fire away Manatees! Do you have a favorite brand of custom clothing? Do you have a brand you would stay away from? Thanks for any input!!!!

My bike club also uses Pactimo and has also been looking at other vendors. Major fit issues with the recent orders.

Have you tried Louis Garneau https://custom.garneau.com/?  I'm not on the committee for this but I know they sent a fit kit.

Kevin's bike college bike club just did a Primal order and he likes it a lot. I have a several primal jerseys and I like them a lot.

Hincapie does a nice job but they are pretty high end and I expect the pricing could be an issue.

I've been using Zoot cycling shorts for a bit and really like them. I know they do custom team kits, but I have no experience with that, so can't speak to price or responsiveness. I have a couple of Primal jersey that I like, so imagine their kits are pretty good too.

I'll take a look at Zoot -- have a friend who wears that brand and really liks it
I've worn Zoot for years, They are reasonably comfortable and hold up well. I still have my first pair of Zoot tri shorts. I wear them on the trainer and the are still in good condition. I think I've had them for 15 years.

FIFTEEN YEARS?!



The Graphics have been worn out for a long time. I wore them my first couple of races and then just for training. I do wash them, in case that is a question.

I've never worn bib shorts. but I have never had an issue with the chamiois with Zoot or Castelli. The only shorts I ever wore and hated were Pearl Izumi. They were like wearing a diaper.


I have bike shorts that I have a had for years as well. I think because I took so many years OFF from biking in the past decade is why they have lasted!

Our Tri Club is ordering kits from Varlo (?) this year. They are pricey but I guess they are suppose to be really nice.

That's a company I have not heard of (which doesn't mean a thing). I'll take a peek at their website.
2023-01-18 8:34 AM
in reply to: canadarn2001

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by canadarn2001
Originally posted by JBacarella
Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by JBacarella
Originally posted by abake
Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by abake Manatees, can we talk about custom cycling clothing for teams, clubs, etc.? I'd love to get your opinion on brands you like and brands that you do not like. Background - - Our local cycling club has been using Pactimo for several years for custom clothing. It's time for a change. Lack of customer support, inconsistent quality of materials and more importantly, sizing that varies wildly. I've been burned too many times by Pactimo and have been given the green light to look into other brands. So far I've contacted: Voler Borah Primal Of these, Primal has been the most responsive and seems eager to get our club's business. The rep is sending me an assortment of sample clothing for our members to try on. I do have a couple of Primal jerseys and like the way they fit, so I'm already favorably impressed with them. Voler and Borah seem interested but won't send sample clothing. This is probably a deal breaker. A club member sent me a link to a company I've not heard of: Saffetti Smart Wear. She has a couple of jerseys and likes them. I can't find a lot of reviews on this company. Anyone heard of it? So...fire away Manatees! Do you have a favorite brand of custom clothing? Do you have a brand you would stay away from? Thanks for any input!!!!

My bike club also uses Pactimo and has also been looking at other vendors. Major fit issues with the recent orders.

Have you tried Louis Garneau https://custom.garneau.com/?  I'm not on the committee for this but I know they sent a fit kit.

Kevin's bike college bike club just did a Primal order and he likes it a lot. I have a several primal jerseys and I like them a lot.

Hincapie does a nice job but they are pretty high end and I expect the pricing could be an issue.

I've been using Zoot cycling shorts for a bit and really like them. I know they do custom team kits, but I have no experience with that, so can't speak to price or responsiveness. I have a couple of Primal jersey that I like, so imagine their kits are pretty good too.

I'll take a look at Zoot -- have a friend who wears that brand and really liks it
I've worn Zoot for years, They are reasonably comfortable and hold up well. I still have my first pair of Zoot tri shorts. I wear them on the trainer and the are still in good condition. I think I've had them for 15 years.

FIFTEEN YEARS?!

The Graphics have been worn out for a long time. I wore them my first couple of races and then just for training. I do wash them, in case that is a question. I've never worn bib shorts. but I have never had an issue with the chamiois with Zoot or Castelli. The only shorts I ever wore and hated were Pearl Izumi. They were like wearing a diaper.
I have bike shorts that I have a had for years as well. I think because I took so many years OFF from biking in the past decade is why they have lasted! Our Tri Club is ordering kits from Varlo (?) this year. They are pricey but I guess they are suppose to be really nice.

I have a couple of Orca tri shorts that have to be 10+ years. I only recently designated them to only trainer shorts.

2023-01-18 8:38 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Raleigh, NC area
Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by Hot Runner Not really related to the biking discussion, but I have a pair of running shorts that I've worn since college (33 years ago)! Probably wear them once a week in the summer. (Admittedly, Oregonian summer is quite short.) They still fit, and the elastic is still going strong. They are from a locally owned company called Sporthill (available nationally online) and the founder also ran for U.O. I still run in a lot of their clothes (since locals benefit from their awesome tent sales at the big national meets here) but the more recent ones are not quite up to that lofty standard of durability (I think the quality's gone down a bit since production moved overseas). Their stuff is really well-designed, though, for running and other outdoor activities like hiking and XC skiing.

Sporthill makes good stuff. I forget about them because they are not really available around here.



2023-01-18 8:40 AM
in reply to: amd723

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by canadarn2001
Originally posted by JBacarella
Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by JBacarella
Originally posted by abake
Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by abake Manatees, can we talk about custom cycling clothing for teams, clubs, etc.? I'd love to get your opinion on brands you like and brands that you do not like. Background - - Our local cycling club has been using Pactimo for several years for custom clothing. It's time for a change. Lack of customer support, inconsistent quality of materials and more importantly, sizing that varies wildly. I've been burned too many times by Pactimo and have been given the green light to look into other brands. So far I've contacted: Voler Borah Primal Of these, Primal has been the most responsive and seems eager to get our club's business. The rep is sending me an assortment of sample clothing for our members to try on. I do have a couple of Primal jerseys and like the way they fit, so I'm already favorably impressed with them. Voler and Borah seem interested but won't send sample clothing. This is probably a deal breaker. A club member sent me a link to a company I've not heard of: Saffetti Smart Wear. She has a couple of jerseys and likes them. I can't find a lot of reviews on this company. Anyone heard of it? So...fire away Manatees! Do you have a favorite brand of custom clothing? Do you have a brand you would stay away from? Thanks for any input!!!!

My bike club also uses Pactimo and has also been looking at other vendors. Major fit issues with the recent orders.

Have you tried Louis Garneau https://custom.garneau.com/?  I'm not on the committee for this but I know they sent a fit kit.

Kevin's bike college bike club just did a Primal order and he likes it a lot. I have a several primal jerseys and I like them a lot.

Hincapie does a nice job but they are pretty high end and I expect the pricing could be an issue.

I've been using Zoot cycling shorts for a bit and really like them. I know they do custom team kits, but I have no experience with that, so can't speak to price or responsiveness. I have a couple of Primal jersey that I like, so imagine their kits are pretty good too.

I'll take a look at Zoot -- have a friend who wears that brand and really liks it
I've worn Zoot for years, They are reasonably comfortable and hold up well. I still have my first pair of Zoot tri shorts. I wear them on the trainer and the are still in good condition. I think I've had them for 15 years.

FIFTEEN YEARS?!

The Graphics have been worn out for a long time. I wore them my first couple of races and then just for training. I do wash them, in case that is a question. I've never worn bib shorts. but I have never had an issue with the chamiois with Zoot or Castelli. The only shorts I ever wore and hated were Pearl Izumi. They were like wearing a diaper.
I have bike shorts that I have a had for years as well. I think because I took so many years OFF from biking in the past decade is why they have lasted! Our Tri Club is ordering kits from Varlo (?) this year. They are pricey but I guess they are suppose to be really nice.

I have a couple of Orca tri shorts that have to be 10+ years. I only recently designated them to only trainer shorts.

My bike shorts have a similar progression -- there comes a point when they are still comfortable enough to use but not in good enough condition to be used in public (or for longer rides)

2023-01-18 8:41 AM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

So...I have been busy with the Winter Cycling Group I am leading for my Ambassador Tri Team.  I thought I had the gist of CP (Critical Power) figured out but have been brushing up on things to make sure that I can teach the group how it all works, evaluate their power tests, set up their training zones, and assign them workouts tailored to their strengths and weaknesses.  The more I study the more clueless I realize I am.  That is part of why I volunteered though.  Pushing yourself out of your comfort zone is sometimes the quickest way to learn. 

So...he is my discovery for the week.  Training Platforms like TrainerRoads, Zwift, Rouvey, Wahoo Fitness, etc. all use FTP.  They test with 5 minute tests, 20 minute tests, ramp tests, the Rubber Glove test, the Full Monty test, etc.  I have not done the last two but know that most of these make an assumption about your level of endurance to calculate your 1-hour power.  If you are average then the test is a good approximation. If you have better endurance than average or if you burn out faster than average the test is not the best for you.  The CP tests does all out intervals of different duration to calculate not only your 1-hour power but also your aerobic capacity (W') which is a measurement of how much work you can do above your Critical Power.    Two people might have the same FTP of 230W.  One however may have a VO2max (30sec to 2minute all out power) of 400W and the other might have a VO2max of 310W.   So,  the one with 400W will be a better sprinter because of the capacity to do more work above Critical power.  The other will be a better at endurance races because of the ability to hold a higher percentage of their VO2max for period over an hour (i.e. 2 hrs, 4 hrs, 6 hrs.).  Further, one will need to focus on sprints to increasing the amount of work he/she can do above CP to improve his/her FTP and the other will need to work on endurance to improving the threshold percent they can to improve their FTP.  If you are average you get the right training through the on line platforms but if you endurance is better than average of if the work you can do above your threshold is better than average you may not be getting the training you need from the pre-written training plans and may progress faster with customized training.  This was mind blowing to me.  I never really understood how training plans were customized to produce faster results and bigger gains than following pre-written plans.

Very interesting. I thought Sufferfest's (now Wahoo System) 4DP test was designed to identify those issues as it measures neuromuscular power, anaerobic capacity, max aerobic power, and FTP. From those results you are given workouts to improve where you are lacking. I'm not sure if this is the same thing as what you are doing with critical power, but it seems more detailed than just FTP. 

Jim's been using Sufferfest for a long time so he may be able to point out where I've gone wrong!  

2023-01-18 12:07 PM
in reply to: amd723

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by amd723

Very interesting. I thought Sufferfest's (now Wahoo System) 4DP test was designed to identify those issues as it measures neuromuscular power, anaerobic capacity, max aerobic power, and FTP. From those results you are given workouts to improve where you are lacking. I'm not sure if this is the same thing as what you are doing with critical power, but it seems more detailed than just FTP. 

Jim's been using Sufferfest for a long time so he may be able to point out where I've gone wrong!  

This might be the same thing.  Those sound like the same things.  I am intrested so I am now going to have to look up the 4DP test to see how it is run and how it calculates results.  I also am going to have to go back and look at the Full Monty because I remember people saying when it came out that it calculated things other than FTP that I didn't know what were or what they were used for.  

The first Test I did was the 10-mile TT that was outline in the Heart Rate Version of the JorgeM Beginner Triathlete Winter Bike plan (which I did after a spring triathlon from May to August).  I have done a half dozen different test since then. 

2023-01-18 7:03 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!
Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by amd723

Very interesting. I thought Sufferfest's (now Wahoo System) 4DP test was designed to identify those issues as it measures neuromuscular power, anaerobic capacity, max aerobic power, and FTP. From those results you are given workouts to improve where you are lacking. I'm not sure if this is the same thing as what you are doing with critical power, but it seems more detailed than just FTP. 

Jim's been using Sufferfest for a long time so he may be able to point out where I've gone wrong!  

This might be the same thing.  Those sound like the same things.  I am intrested so I am now going to have to look up the 4DP test to see how it is run and how it calculates results.  I also am going to have to go back and look at the Full Monty because I remember people saying when it came out that it calculated things other than FTP that I didn't know what were or what they were used for.  

The first Test I did was the 10-mile TT that was outline in the Heart Rate Version of the JorgeM Beginner Triathlete Winter Bike plan (which I did after a spring triathlon from May to August).  I have done a half dozen different test since then. 



FTP is one of the four areas tested in the Wahoo 4DP test. The four areas tested are Neuromuscular Power (NM) sprint speed. Anerobic Capacity (AC) ability to go hard, recover and go hard again. Maximum Aerobic Power (MAP) for endurance and FTP. They also test Cycling Threshold Heart Rate (cTHR). I train mostly by heart rate, so that is good information for me.

The Sufferfest used just FTP until 2017 when they replaced Rubber Glove with Full Frontal and then added Half Monty. They suggest Full Frontal every 12 weeks or Half Monty every 6 weeks. (I don't test as often as they suggest. I did look at my history with the tests and it varies, but I correlate it with what I have going on. The times I've tested within a few weeks of a full IM, my numbers are better and came out as time trialist. When I've tested after the holidays it comes back as a pursuer. I could sustain a strong effort, but didn't have the endurance. It helps with my winter build up for summer.
2023-01-19 5:43 AM
in reply to: JBacarella

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Hello all, I figured a proper bit of information was in order, since I finally figured out that the thread has gone live. Life has been a bit full since late September when Ian came through. We stuck around for the cat 5 mess which blew for 11 hours straight. If you ever have the opportunity to do such a thing, book a flight and get out of town. Our pool cage is gone, we had some garage damage, the shed is junk, yadda, yadda, yadda. All in all, we are blessed to be where we are. 

However, the true fun began in November when the county reached out and said we could finally get into the Carlton Reserve that our trails are in. But first, we had to get "certified" to run chainsaws. So, after a 6 hour day of cutting fallen trees off of the trails, we had completed about 2 miles of the 25 in the park. The park didn't "open" until after New Years and any spare time has been given to that effort since then. And we are still not done. We have 2 more miles of trails to clear. The good news is that all of the stuff that is used in Piggy's Revenge is ready to go. The bad news is that we are two weeks out and still have a ton of work to do to get this thing put on. Such is life.

I went back and skimmed through the posts. I saw a Zwift question and the answer given was spot on. I ride outside, no trainer or indoor setup at all. Ann-Marie, the key to morning rides is lights. Don't let a little thing like darkness slow you down. I try to get out a couple of mornings a month on the fixie in the dark and do what has become known as the paper route ride. Up and down streets in the neighborhood, sprint one, coast one, or change it up with a longer road or a shorter road and so on. I generally come home absolutely knackered after those rides. We also have a regularly scheduled Tuesday night ride out in the Carlton, sometimes gravel, sometimes MTB.  And, when I'm pushing for improvements, I can do a lunch ride or two per week, or an after work ride. WFH has been good for that.  

Well, that should be it. I turned on notifications and will be following along henceforth. And if any of you are around Venice Fl on January 29th, feel free to stop by the park for Piggy's Revenge. Drop my name at the gate for parking and then look for the guy behind the grill and I'll get you in on the fun.



2023-01-19 8:37 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!
Originally posted by Hot Runner

Not really related to the biking discussion, but I have a pair of running shorts that I've worn since college (33 years ago)! Probably wear them once a week in the summer. (Admittedly, Oregonian summer is quite short.) They still fit, and the elastic is still going strong. They are from a locally owned company called Sporthill (available nationally online) and the founder also ran for U.O. I still run in a lot of their clothes (since locals benefit from their awesome tent sales at the big national meets here) but the more recent ones are not quite up to that lofty standard of durability (I think the quality's gone down a bit since production moved overseas). Their stuff is really well-designed, though, for running and other outdoor activities like hiking and XC skiing.


I have a pair of under armor short I've had for nearly 20 years too. IN fact, I am wearing them today. I love them but UA does not make the same design anymore. I'll keep wearing them until they are unwearable.
2023-01-19 8:44 AM
in reply to: canadarn2001

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!
Chattanooga 70.3 -> in this group Annemarie, Jim and I are signed up? Is that correct? Anyone else?
2023-01-19 8:58 AM
in reply to: cdban66

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Raleigh, NC area
Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by cdban66

Hello all, I figured a proper bit of information was in order, since I finally figured out that the thread has gone live. Life has been a bit full since late September when Ian came through. We stuck around for the cat 5 mess which blew for 11 hours straight. If you ever have the opportunity to do such a thing, book a flight and get out of town. Our pool cage is gone, we had some garage damage, the shed is junk, yadda, yadda, yadda. All in all, we are blessed to be where we are. 

However, the true fun began in November when the county reached out and said we could finally get into the Carlton Reserve that our trails are in. But first, we had to get "certified" to run chainsaws. So, after a 6 hour day of cutting fallen trees off of the trails, we had completed about 2 miles of the 25 in the park. The park didn't "open" until after New Years and any spare time has been given to that effort since then. And we are still not done. We have 2 more miles of trails to clear. The good news is that all of the stuff that is used in Piggy's Revenge is ready to go. The bad news is that we are two weeks out and still have a ton of work to do to get this thing put on. Such is life.

I went back and skimmed through the posts. I saw a Zwift question and the answer given was spot on. I ride outside, no trainer or indoor setup at all. Ann-Marie, the key to morning rides is lights. Don't let a little thing like darkness slow you down. I try to get out a couple of mornings a month on the fixie in the dark and do what has become known as the paper route ride. Up and down streets in the neighborhood, sprint one, coast one, or change it up with a longer road or a shorter road and so on. I generally come home absolutely knackered after those rides. We also have a regularly scheduled Tuesday night ride out in the Carlton, sometimes gravel, sometimes MTB.  And, when I'm pushing for improvements, I can do a lunch ride or two per week, or an after work ride. WFH has been good for that.  

Well, that should be it. I turned on notifications and will be following along henceforth. And if any of you are around Venice Fl on January 29th, feel free to stop by the park for Piggy's Revenge. Drop my name at the gate for parking and then look for the guy behind the grill and I'll get you in on the fun.

Thanks for the update, Chris! I was wondering about Piggy's Revenge!

The real question is, when are you heading up to WNC?

2023-01-19 9:00 AM
in reply to: canadarn2001

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Subject: RE: Marvelous Manatees - Stronger than Ever!

Originally posted by canadarn2001 Chattanooga 70.3 -> in this group Annemarie, Jim and I are signed up? Is that correct? Anyone else?

That's all I know of.

We need to get Ann-Marie all healed up though!

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