To swim or not to swim...intervals
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2006-10-06 6:01 PM |
Expert 755 SF-Bay Area | Subject: To swim or not to swim...intervals Okay, here's the skinny. I think I should be incorporating some intervals into my swim workouts (from what I've read), but...well...I haven't really been on any consistent basis. Part of it is laziness, and part of it is the T/I dogma about working on form first--speed later (so I keep putting off serious/regular intervals until closer to start of tri season). For now, thrice a week, I go out and 90% of the time just swim a continuous 2000m+ at lunch. My average pace for the entire workout, over the last 2-3 months, has dropped (from beginner-slow to a less-slow 2'17"/100m [a new PR today!]); while my distance over those same months has steadily increased. I guess my questions is: am I shortchanging myself by skipping on the intervals now during base-building? Would I improve faster by incorporating them now? Or, does LSD apply to swimming as well as running/cycling? TIA for advice! Edited by guncollector 2006-10-06 6:03 PM |
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2006-10-06 6:07 PM in reply to: #563169 |
Master 2629 brummie land | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals the received wisdom is form and technique work till you hit 2min/100m. i'd stick with the drills and such till you get nearer to 2mins.
just my two pence worth |
2006-10-06 6:09 PM in reply to: #563169 |
Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals I guess my questions is: am I shortchanging myself by skipping on the intervals now during base-building? Would I improve faster by incorporating them now? Or, does LSD apply to swimming as well as running/cycling? TIA for advice! Yes, you are short changing yourself (IMHO). Swimming is vastly different than running or biking in that sure, you can swim a straight 2K, but how much of that 2K is proper form and technique? Biking and running longer for base is OK becuase form is not as much of a factor. I think you might be thinking of "intervals" as hard sets. In swimming, intervals might be hard, but they might also be easy. More often, they're referred to as "sets" By incorporating intervals or sets, you are allowing your body a slight rest during which you can refocus on technique. And intervals are not all about speed. You can do 100 intervals on 1:30, or 1:45, or 2:00, or 2:30, etc. You get the point. You can do speed intervals. You can do base intervals (4 sets of 500 on a certain time, etc). For example, for a 2000 yard workout, you could do 3 x 100 and 4 x 50 as a warmup incorporating drill work, then for your set do 8 x 100, or 4 x 200 or 6 x 150, etc for the main set, then 200 warm down. On occasion, to remind those slow twitch muscles, you can do a 1000 yard set or go the full 2K. But if all you do is long slow swims, all you'll be is a long slow swimmer |
2006-10-06 7:10 PM in reply to: #563169 |
Master 1670 Harvard, Illinois | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals When my shoulder is healthy and I can swim I like to do one long distance swim a week or every 10 days. The other two days I like to do intervals. 100-200-300s and on the other days I will do longer intervals 500-600-700s. I will do some sprint work here and there but not to much. |
2006-10-06 7:39 PM in reply to: #563169 |
Expert 680 NC Illinois | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals and part of it is the T/I dogma about working on form first--speed later You make it sound like it's "either/or". When you're "working on form" you should still be getting faster. When you're working on "getting faster", you're still using good form. I go out and 90% of the time just swim a continuous 2000m+ at lunch. Are you intentionally trying to get bored with swimming. I would incorporate "swimming workouts" for various reasons. I use these http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/ironman-workouts/and some from various books and/plans. Much better than just "continuous swimming" every single time. |
2006-10-06 7:45 PM in reply to: #563169 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals To swim fast you have to train fast BUT at 2:17 per 100m your speed will improve a lot more by getting swimming lessons and/or MORE time in the pool. You could add interval sessions; the problem I see is that with bad technique you'll just reinforce bad habits while swimming harder and not necessarily that much faster… |
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2006-10-06 8:24 PM in reply to: #563169 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals Keep working on technique but not just technique. You are where I was last year maybe a bit faster. All last winter I did different interval sets minimum of twice a week and my time per 100 dropped more than 30 seconds. I started doing short intervals..goal to keep same pace or get faster as I went through the set...not go super fast first couple and then be toast later...taught me to pace better. In time I did longer intervals and ladders from shorter to longer. |
2006-10-07 12:37 AM in reply to: #563169 |
Expert 755 SF-Bay Area | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals Thanks, everyone, for the advice. Its the reinforcement I needed to make a change in my swim training regimen. Fortunately, I can fairly easily juggle my schedule to start attending a Masters Swim session during my lunch hour. I've been contemplating it for a while now, but having just learned to freestyle/frontcrawl in late June, i think I have just been intimidated by the prospect of trying to hang with all these great swimmers. But, the coach has always been very inviting, so I will go for it next week.
Edited by guncollector 2006-10-07 12:38 AM |
2006-10-07 11:23 AM in reply to: #563169 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals Yes, absolutely, no question about it. See Swim Myth #13. See swim.net for some guidance in creating an interval-rich workout plan that suits your training level. The 18 Biggest Myths in Pool & Ocean Swimming, by Clay Evans: |
2006-10-07 3:21 PM in reply to: #563169 |
Master 1324 Rochester, NY | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals I've personally found that some speed work can help refine your swim stroke. The amount of resistance when swimming at near max speed is far above that for "normal" LSD swimming. I find a lot more of the problems with my stroke when the resistance is magnified. One type of set that I like to do occasionally is a "build" set wherein you increase your speed throughout the given distance. Say 100 meters. Start slow and gradually build your speed throughout the 100 so that you're going all out for the last 20 meters or whatever. These changing speeds have really helped me hone in on various issues. Good luck |
2006-10-07 4:02 PM in reply to: #563295 |
Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals guncollector - 2006-10-06 10:37 PM Thanks, everyone, for the advice. Its the reinforcement I needed to make a change in my swim training regimen. Fortunately, I can fairly easily juggle my schedule to start attending a Masters Swim session during my lunch hour. I've been contemplating it for a while now, but having just learned to freestyle/frontcrawl in late June, i think I have just been intimidated by the prospect of trying to hang with all these great swimmers. But, the coach has always been very inviting, so I will go for it next week. Wise choice. Not only will doing intervals make you a better swimmer, swimming in a masters group will make you a MUCH better swimmer. The motivation from other people in the pool will amaze you, and you will likely do sets you'd never do on your own. There's a thread over on ST, but make sure the masters coach is mixing it up and not just hammering all the time. Yeah, it's intimidating joining masters. I was intimidated, most everyone is, and then you get over it Edited by ChrisM 2006-10-07 4:03 PM |
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2006-10-07 11:32 PM in reply to: #563408 |
Expert 680 NC Illinois | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals I also agree with the myth on concentrating too much on technique. Your technique only needs to be "good", not picture-perfect. Moreover, it will likely never be "perfect", so continually spending energy on "perfect technique" rather than "swimming faster" seems like a waste. Do you want to swim faster or swim with better technique? Granted neither are isolated from one another, but folks talk about "practicing swimming technique" as if it's an event of itself. Get good technique, and work on getting faster. It's as if we make it more complicated than it is. I know the "swim faster" folks love to point out hte "less than ideal" technique of the fastest triathletes. |
2006-10-09 4:48 PM in reply to: #563408 |
35 | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals I just swam the swim leg of a relay triathlon in the Bay. I went out great, at the last bouy within 5 minutes. Then I rounded the last bouy and went absolutely no where. I couldn't overcome the current. Obviously it wasn't impossible because the people in front made it. I heard alot of people talking about it and they said it took them 5 minutes to get out and 25+ minutes to get back. I really struggled and basically freaked out. There was a group of about 10 of us out there just struggling, several people had to be rescued or got out. I did some how manage to finish. I know I didn't train enough and didn't have enough endurance. What can I do to avoid this in the future? Do I need more physical strength? This was my first ocean swim, I have swam in rivers and lakes with some current but I have never experienced quite this kind of thing. This season I trained about 2-3 days a weeks since I was only doing the swim. I can swim 800m in the pool in about 20 mins, without breathing too hard. Any advice? |
2006-10-09 5:06 PM in reply to: #563169 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals Well, I was a competitive swimmer and I had trouble figuring out what to do in the pool for training. When I train, I follow the workouts in this book/binder: Workouts in a Binder: Swim Workouts for Triathletes by Gale Bernhardt, Nick Hansen It's great! You basically pick workouts that are for your fitness goals. There are workouts if you are training for an Ironman, etc. Money well spent in my opinion. |
2006-10-09 5:24 PM in reply to: #563169 |
SF Bay Area, Mountain View | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals 10. The under tow will get you i wonder how this one is a myth? there's signs all along Ocean Beach in SF that explain very clearly how the undertow WILL get you. at least 2 people have died there this summer because of the undertow. |
2006-10-09 5:32 PM in reply to: #563169 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals To expand this discussion a bit: Since some of you think swim technique is important only to certain extent: What would you guys consider a good benchmark to change focus from technique to speed? Someone swimming on avg 2:00 per 100 Yds? 1:45? 1:30? Depends on the distance? Depends on the athlete's goals? Depends on swimming volume? Both should have similar focus? Does it even matter? |
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2006-10-09 5:48 PM in reply to: #564917 |
Expert 755 SF-Bay Area | Subject: RE: To swim or not to swim...intervals amiine - 2006-10-09 3:32 PM To expand this discussion a bit: Since some of you think swim technique is important only to certain extent: What would you guys consider a good benchmark to change focus from technique to speed? Someone swimming on avg 2:00 per 100 Yds? 1:45? 1:30? Depends on the distance? Depends on the athlete's goals? Depends on swimming volume? Both should have similar focus? Does it even matter? This I'd really like to know also. As a newbie, over 200-300m I can hold 2'00"/100m; but over 2000m my pace drops to 2'17"/100m. What 100m pace over what distance should I be training towards (for AG 35-39) do you think? Edit: I just checked '06 race results for my first Sprint (800m swim) of next season. Top swimmer, out of the water at a 1'31"/100m pace. In my AG (35-39), MOP seems to be 2'08"/100m (I'm almost there), and BOP were pushing 3'10"-3'30"/100m. Guess I should make a goal of, what, 1'45"/100m?
Edited by guncollector 2006-10-09 6:07 PM |