General Discussion Triathlon Talk » LT Heart Rate Improvement Rss Feed  
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2006-12-01 8:32 AM

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Subject: LT Heart Rate Improvement
As fitness levels increase or improve, would you expect to see an increase or decrease in LTHR?


2006-12-01 8:48 AM
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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement
I am not an expert on this stuff but I believe it will go up. I have read that some people will use LTHR as a percentage of HR @ VO2Max to determine how close they are to ideal fitness. That being said the book that stated that had a lot of stuff that I just didn't understand.
2006-12-01 9:55 AM
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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement
Get ready to see a hundred thousand responses... ;-)

Edited by jvinciqu 2006-12-01 9:58 AM
2006-12-01 9:59 AM
in reply to: #613073

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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement
Not an expert, I would think that it would increase slightly, but more importantly you would look for your pace/speed to increase at LTHR.
2006-12-01 10:01 AM
in reply to: #613073

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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement
From this article I found the following quote:
Research has shown that the lactate threshold occurs at 80-90% of heart rate reserve (HRR) in trained individuals and at 50-60% HRR in untrained individuals (Weltman 1995).
2006-12-01 10:27 AM
in reply to: #613073

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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement
Generally up.  But, as bear noted, it's more important that you are getting faster than seeing any particular change in your LTHR.  View the LTHR as just a way to set your training zones--neither good nor bad.  Building strength, speed & endurance are what we're working towards.


2006-12-01 10:55 AM
in reply to: #613073

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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement
As noted your LT may increase - typically it won't be a dramatic increase unless you are starting from an extremely untrained state. However, as bear and JohnnyKay have mentioned, you can expect your efficiency at that level to improve as your body's ability to run at a given HR. As your efficiency improves, you will be able to run faster at a given HR.

Many athletes will find that their LT will increase the first few times they test but this seems to be more a function of getting used to the testing process and learning how to pace better during the test.

Shane

Edited by gsmacleod 2006-12-01 10:58 AM
2006-12-01 11:51 AM
in reply to: #613073

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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement

I tested mine about 5 months ago when I really started getting into training.  It was 182bpm.  I recently retested it and it is now 187bpm, and I'm definitely faster now at given HR's as others have posted above.

Just a sample of one. 

2006-12-01 12:52 PM
in reply to: #613073

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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement
And for a sample of two, here is my results from this year:

In 2/06, my run 30'TT LTHR was 195 at about a 8:30 min/mi pace
In 8/06, my run 30'TT LTHR was 188 at about a 7:30 min/mi pace

From 11/05 to the February test, I did nothing but low HR (150-155 bpm) running and (145 bpm) cycling on the trainer. No tempo runs or intervals. Pretty much all of my runs were in the 12-13 min/mi range.

From 2/06-8/06, I mixed in tempo (185-190 bpm) runs with easy (160-165bpm) Zone 1/2 runs. My cycling was on the road and usually a somewhat hard effort (160-170 aveHR including stopping).

2006-12-12 8:47 AM
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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement

Any more thought on this??  I thought LT was supposed to increase - on the half mary training plan I'm using there are some runs that are designed to "increase LT."  I did a bike LT test in the lab back in October and the computer said my LT was 165.  I just did the run LT test (not in the lab - just w/ my HR monitor) and my average for the 20 minutes was 186.  I'd definitely say my fitness level has improved a lot since October - I just started training in August for a sprint and since then have been training for a half marathon.  So I guess I have 2 questions -

1) Is it possible that my LT improved that much from October to December?  I know I've read you can usually add 10 beats to your bike LT to get your run LT, so if the computer said my bike LT was 165 in October, then my run LT would have been around 175.  Is it possible to go up 10 beats in 2 months?

2) Am I improving if I do the run test again next month and my 20 minute average HR has gone up? 

2006-12-12 9:03 AM
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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement
lawyerchick - 2006-12-12 8:47 AM

Any more thought on this??  I thought LT was supposed to increase - on the half mary training plan I'm using there are some runs that are designed to "increase LT."  I did a bike LT test in the lab back in October and the computer said my LT was 165.  I just did the run LT test (not in the lab - just w/ my HR monitor) and my average for the 20 minutes was 186.  I'd definitely say my fitness level has improved a lot since October - I just started training in August for a sprint and since then have been training for a half marathon.  So I guess I have 2 questions -

1) Is it possible that my LT improved that much from October to December?  I know I've read you can usually add 10 beats to your bike LT to get your run LT, so if the computer said my bike LT was 165 in October, then my run LT would have been around 175.  Is it possible to go up 10 beats in 2 months?

2) Am I improving if I do the run test again next month and my 20 minute average HR has gone up? 



Take all this with a grain of salt, as I'm no expert, just a big reader....

1) There are a lot of factors that could explain the 20 bpm difference. Your bike and run LT may just be farther apart than average. You also may be learning to pace yourself and so turn in a better effort. I don't think you'll get anywhere trying to compare LT from the bike to the run.

2) Depends on what you mean by "improving". Does having the highest LT win the race? Like someone said already, LT is useful for setting your zones. Other than that, it's not worth obsessing over. If it goes up, adjust your zones. If it doesn't, don't. The real issue is not whether or not your LT is going up, but whether you're getting faster at particular HR's. That's improving.


2006-12-13 12:50 PM
in reply to: #613073

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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement
In order to raise your lactate threshold, you have to train your lactate threshold. These are Basically zone 4 (friel) workouts. MOst folks don't do many of those in the winter seasons. Training below your lactate threshold (zones 1-3) will improve your ability to use fats for fuels and increase your efficiency and endurance.

The result of doing training at a lower HR may actually be a decrease in your LT HR, because you are not training at the correct intensityto increase LT. However, what you SHOULD see, is an ability to go farther/faster at the same HR, or to do the same distance/speed at a lower HR. This seems to be what the poster 3 (edited) above me has experienced.

The winner is going to be the person who goes fastest (obviously), and raising your LT and VO2 will both allow you to go even faster...but it's not the actual numbers that count, it's how fast you are actually able to travel (how much power you are able to sustain) over the distance/time of the course that matters. If you're aim is to be fast, that is. To improve those values (LT and VO2 max) you have to train at those intensities (train at your lactate threshold and train at or VO2 max). This is not what the majority of people do during "winter base training"

Sorry, that was kind of rambling and simplistic, but that may help somebody!

Edited by AdventureBear 2006-12-13 12:52 PM
2006-12-13 1:13 PM
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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement
lawyerchick - 2006-12-12 8:47 AM

Any more thought on this??  I thought LT was supposed to increase - on the half mary training plan I'm using there are some runs that are designed to "increase LT." 

In this use, the plan is likely referring to improving your ability to hold a higher pace at LT.  But you may also increase your LTHR as well.



Edited by JohnnyKay 2006-12-13 1:15 PM
2006-12-13 1:18 PM
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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement

Suzanne hit the nail on the head with her post. Theoretically if you could raise your LT to your VO2Max then you would be operating at 100% of YOUR efficiency. This is not the case even in elite athletes. What you want to strive for is to build a solid base at low HR's (Zone 1-2). What this does is it makes your body more efficient in transporting the O2 rich red blood cells to the working muscles and clearing the accumulated lactic acid.

Many years ago Mark Allen was training with one of the early HRM and saw that at his target HR for the IM marathon (150 bpm) he was running an 8:30 min/mile. That obviously was not going to win him the race. Through the same HR training we do now he was able to get to the point to where he ran 5:30 min/miles at the SAME HR.

Bottom line is don't worry about LT right now, use the results from your testing to set your zones and retest about every 6-8 weeks or so. When you get to the build and race specific parts of your training plan then you can incorporate LT and VO2 Max workouts on top of that strong base you have already built.

2006-12-13 2:39 PM
in reply to: #613073

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Subject: RE: LT Heart Rate Improvement
OK this all makes sense - thanks everyone for the responses.  I guess I got worried because my bike LT in October was 165 and then I did the run test and got 186, and I was worried that if my LT is supposed to go down with more training that mine wasn't doing that.  I only have a couple LT runs in my program, and other than that I stay in Z1 and 2.  Thanks again!
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